Calling All Budgies - the Red Sox 2020 payroll thread

[Hitch]

And if it was JH making all these deals, I guess he gets the credit for the WS win in 2018? His trades and free agent signings got us the title after all.

[mvp 78]

And if it was JH making all these deals, I guess he gets the credit for the WS win in 2018? His trades and free agent signings got us the title after all.

 

He gets credit for the wins and losses. He gets credit for bringing Sale here. He gets credit for trading away Betts. He gets credit for 04, 07, 13, 18. He gets credit for 11 collapse, 12, 14, 15, 19.

[mvp 78]

They both are to blame, but DD is the one who presented the idea to Henry.

 

DD has a history of leaving franchises in poor financial condition upon being shown the door.

 

Henry probably knew that going in. Your statements don't absolve him.

[Nick]

I will not be happy.

 

I am actually enjoying this. There has to be a limit to how much you pay a player. I've always hated Sox wasting money, and I'm talking about $8-10M. Think of all the bad contracts that's been given with absolutely no return in performance. That's pure gambling. That's no way to run a business.

 

Bloom is disciplined. He will continue to make small moves to make the team better. He needed to get the debt off the backs of Sox organization as defined by CBA.

 

Say I'm worth $100B and money meant absolutely nothing. What's fun in buying up best player at every position to win the World Series? That's not fun.

 

I'm looking forward to development out of our younger players. I want Chavis to get better. I want to see Dalbec. We still have Xander, Martinez and Devers to anchor our offense. I expect healthier starting rotation.

 

 

The reset was very important. Some big pieces had to move to accomplish that goal. Now we can move ahead with the task of building a winner.

Edited February 6, 2020 by Nick

[notin]

Is there a difference?

 

Being a rubber stamp is giving your approval to the move without thinking about it. That doesn't remove your responsibility. Arguably, that could be worse than lording over.

 

All the difference in the world.

 

In situation #1, I’m picturing Henry as a super involved micro-manager who doesn’t let Dombrowski go to the bathroom without prior approval. In situation 2, Henry just takes Dombrowski’s word that these are smart moves, possibly with no long term ramifications beyond continued dominance of MLB. And Henry, who is running other business ventures as well, just says “Sounds good. Go with it” while paying less attention than taxes in Guam. And after Dombrowski sprints from the room to execute his plan, I picture Henry snapping out of his business coma to say “Wait. Did I just approve spending $68 million dollars on a pitcher whose had two Tommy John surgeries before turning 30?”

[Hitch]

He gets credit for 04, 07, 13, 18.

 

Lets take away the fact I don't agree with your analysis, don't you think 4 titles in 14 years deserves a little patience and understanding when they make mistakes and/or important decision on the future?

[mvp 78]

Lets take away the fact I don't agree with your analysis, don't you think 4 titles in 14 years deserves a little patience and understanding when they make mistakes and/or important decision on the future?

 

I am patient and understanding. I'm just sad, right now, that they had to trade Betts away. I'll feel better eventually. I understand why they did it. I just don't personally agree with it.

 

Sometimes it's ok to feel like a fan.

[mvp 78]

If players are just warm bodies that fill up the uniform to some of you, fine. To me, I like rooting for the actual players. Betts seemed like a really great guy and was fun as hell to watch. The Sox will be a less enjoyable experience for me with someone else in RF.

[Hitch]

I am patient and understanding. I'm just sad, right now, that they had to trade Betts away. I'll feel better eventually. I understand why they did it. I just don't personally agree with it.

 

Sometimes it's ok to feel like a fan.

 

That's totally fair enough. I understand that position.

[SoxnCycles]

"Exactly this. Some seem to have more loyalty towards Betts than the team itself. Mookie doesn't feel the same way. He's taking the biggest offer next year, whoever gives it."

 

Yup.

Because Betts refused to sign an extension, the Sox were able to extend Xander.

The Sale and Eovaldi deals were mistakes, but they can remedy that by signing more pitching the next year or two.

I'm just happy Price is on the west coast and in the National League.

Good riddance.

[Bellhorn04]

"Exactly this. Some seem to have more loyalty towards Betts than the team itself. Mookie doesn't feel the same way. He's taking the biggest offer next year, whoever gives it."

 

Yup.

Because Betts refused to sign an extension, the Sox were able to extend Xander.

The Sale and Eovaldi deals were mistakes, but they can remedy that by signing more pitching the next year or two.

I'm just happy Price is on the west coast and in the National League.

Good riddance.

 

And we can't say with certainty yet that the Sale and Eovaldi deals were mistakes.

[Hitch]

If players are just warm bodies that fill up the uniform to some of you, fine. To me, I like rooting for the actual players. Betts seemed like a really great guy and was fun as hell to watch. The Sox will be a less enjoyable experience for me with someone else in RF.

 

It's not one or the other. Nobody want's Mookie gone, everyone would love him to stay here the rest of his career (for the right price), but there's been f*** ups which hurt us going forward. And we offered him several contracts which he keeps saying no to. He wants free agency so he had to go. We can be sad that we're losing a great player and still see the logic (as you've just said) and support a hard decision.

 

The team comes first for me over any one player, even as one as likeable as Mookie.

 

I do think what they've done has given themselves the opportunity to go for him next year. Whether they will or not is hard to say.

[Hitch]

And we can't say with certainty yet that the Sale and Eovaldi deals were mistakes.

 

I have hope for Sale still, but the Eovaldi contract feels like a MAJOR mistake. But yeah, time will tell as with all these things.

[SoxnCycles]

And we can't say with certainty yet that the Sale and Eovaldi deals were mistakes.

 

Their injury records don't bode well for either of them, but I'm willing to be pleasantly surprised.

[Kimmi]

I am actually enjoying this. There has to be a limit to how much you pay a player. I've always hated Sox wasting money, and I'm talking about $8-10M. Think of all the bad contracts that's been given with absolutely no return in performance. That's pure gambling. That's no way to run a business.

 

Bloom is disciplined. He will continue to make small moves to make the team better. He needed to get the debt off the backs of Sox organization as defined by CBA.

 

Say I'm worth $100B and money meant absolutely nothing. What's fun in buying up best player at every position to win the World Series? That's not fun.

 

I'm looking forward to development out of our younger players. I want Chavis to get better. I want to see Dalbec. We still have Xander, Martinez and Devers to anchor our offense. I expect healthier starting rotation.

 

The reset was very important. Some big pieces had to move to accomplish that goal. Now we can move ahead with the task of building a winner.

 

Excellent post Nick. 100% agree.

[Kimmi]

If players are just warm bodies that fill up the uniform to some of you, fine. To me, I like rooting for the actual players. Betts seemed like a really great guy and was fun as hell to watch. The Sox will be a less enjoyable experience for me with someone else in RF.

 

Players are not just warm bodies to me. I get extremely invested and attached to the Sox players, especially the homegrown ones. It used to tear me up when Theo let our players walk as free agents because he had a a contract figure in mind which he was not going to go above, but he was usually right about not re-signing them.

 

I loved watching Mookie play as much as any other Sox player. However, his attitude about going for the most money just wore thin on me.

[mvp 78]

To me, he deserves every penny. I used to worry about the contracts, but with players constantly changing teams, I’d rather have a few guys to follow for their whole career. It just doesn’t happen as much anymore.

[Kimmi]

"Exactly this. Some seem to have more loyalty towards Betts than the team itself. Mookie doesn't feel the same way. He's taking the biggest offer next year, whoever gives it."

 

Yup.

Because Betts refused to sign an extension, the Sox were able to extend Xander.

The Sale and Eovaldi deals were mistakes, but they can remedy that by signing more pitching the next year or two.

I'm just happy Price is on the west coast and in the National League.

Good riddance.

 

I know you are glad to be rid of Price. I'm just wondering who takes his spot in the rotation. Our starting pitching was thin to begin with, now it's even thinner. There's too much talent on this team to blow off the season, IMO.

[Kimmi]

And we can't say with certainty yet that the Sale and Eovaldi deals were mistakes.

 

I think they will both have bounce back seasons.

[mvp 78]

I know you are glad to be rid of Price. I'm just wondering who takes his spot in the rotation. Our starting pitching was thin to begin with, now it's even thinner. There's too much talent on this team to blow off the season, IMO.

 

Yup, another move must be in the works.

[Kimmi]

To me, he deserves every penny. I used to worry about the contracts, but with players constantly changing teams, I’d rather have a few guys to follow for their whole career. It just doesn’t happen as much anymore.

 

In order for that to happen, I think that the player needs to be willing to take somewhat of a hometown discount. The offer the Sox reportedly gave Mookie was already well above reasonable. Some of us would even call it insane. It takes two to tango.

[Kimmi]

Yup, another move must be in the works.

 

Agreed.

[a700hitter]

I know you are glad to be rid of Price. I'm just wondering who takes his spot in the rotation. Our starting pitching was thin to begin with, now it's even thinner. There's too much talent on this team to blow off the season, IMO.

And if they are going to blow off the season, they should clean house -- move J.D.and Eovaldi.

[Kimmi]

And if they are going to blow off the season, they should clean house -- move J.D.and Eovaldi.

 

I agree. If they're blowing off the season, then don't do it half heartedly.

 

That said, I don't think that's what the Sox will do.

[mvp 78]

In order for that to happen, I think that the player needs to be willing to take somewhat of a hometown discount. The offer the Sox reportedly gave Mookie was already well above reasonable. Some of us would even call it insane. It takes two to tango.

 

The Sox offer was below market value IMO. They needed to add at least 50M to that.

[moonslav59]

The Sox offer was below market value IMO. They needed to add at least 50M to that.

 

It was apparently their first offer, so one has to think they'd have gone higher and may still offer him a higher deal, next winter.

 

Had we got Betts to sign for $360M/10, we'd have paid a heavy tax this year, not reset, and be at the 50% tax for 2021. Basically, all of Betts's contract would be taxed at 50% in 2021 and likely well beyond, assuming we keep spending to win.

 

If you guys would be crying over paying him $38M a year, in essence, we'd really be paying him $57M a year (38 salary +19 tax).

 

This trade had to be made.

 

Trading just Price with $48M would not have been enough to get us a reset.

[moonslav59]

I agree. If they're blowing off the season, then don't do it half heartedly.

 

That said, I don't think that's what the Sox will do.

 

I said basically the same thing, and yes, they won't do it.

 

We should trade Workman while his stock is high and his time is nearly up.

[moonslav59]

If the trade goes through, as is, cots has us about $21M under the taxline.

 

Assuming we add no long term contracts before next winter, we might be looking at this for a spending budget:

 

$21M

$14.5M JBJ and Workman bolt as FAs

Total: $35.5M

 

Arb Raises:

ERod 8.8>?

Beni $3.8>?

Barnes $3.0>?

Peraza $2.9>?

Hembree $1.6>?

Plawecki $0.9>?

Osich $0.9>?

First Arbs: Devers, Brice, Brasier, Velazquez>???

 

Options: Perez ($6.25 w $500K buyout & Moreland ($3M w $500K buyout)

 

Maybe we see a $15.5M bump from raises, but some of these guys may be gone by winter.

 

That might leave $20M to spend (towards Betts or someone else). That's not too much. Had we kept Price, we'd be looking at about $4M to spend and the cliff would be extended, IMO.

 

 

 

 

[Bellhorn04]

I said basically the same thing, and yes, they won't do it.

 

We should trade Workman while his stock is high and his time is nearly up.

 

Workman is a guy who could definitely fetch something good at the deadline.

 

Relief pitchers are the ones who traditionally get overpaid for at the deadline.

[mvp 78]

It was apparently their first offer, so one has to think they'd have gone higher and may still offer him a higher deal, next winter.

 

Had we got Betts to sign for $360M/10, we'd have paid a heavy tax this year, not reset, and be at the 50% tax for 2021. Basically, all of Betts's contract would be taxed at 50% in 2021 and likely well beyond, assuming we keep spending to win.

 

If you guys would be crying over paying him $38M a year, in essence, we'd really be paying him $57M a year (38 salary +19 tax).

 

This trade had to be made.

 

Trading just Price with $48M would not have been enough to get us a reset.

 

Trade Price. Non tender JBJ. Trade Eovaldi.