A Realistic View at 2019: Part II

[mvp 78]

 

The only true cerebral poster here obv.

[Bellhorn04]

 

The only true cerebral poster here obv.

 

Cerebral but not very humble.

[OH FOY]

Very big start today for Sale against lowest Team BA in the Majors. This with a DH. (.233) An American League team should never have the lowest BA in the Majors. Edited July 18, 2019 by OH FOY!

[Slasher9]

 

The only true cerebral poster here obv.

 

The rest of us have brawn and rugged good looks. We just come here when we are bored bench pressing models.

[oldtimer]

I think you're older than I am, but not by much. I grew up a few miles n. of you, and channel 38 almost never came in. So yes, it was Curt Gowdy on the radio. I too would score games, but my OCD brother, an early sabermetrician, developed a method of scoring (or heard of it?) and scored each game for a whole year using it. (And ditto on Pumpsie. It's a shameful reminder of the racism in New England that the RS were the last team of the big three sports to integrate [except for the still loathsome team from D.C. in the NFL]. I believe the Bruins had a black player before the RS did.)

 

While the Red Sox were the last team to integrate I think it is ridiculous to generalize it to racism in New England. I grew up in the 40's and witnessed more racism in the south while New England tended to support the struggle for equal opportunity.

[mvp 78]

Cerebral but not very humble.

 

Humility costs extra.

[Slasher9]

Don’t worry folks. There is still PLENTY of racism in all of our states.

[mvp 78]

Boston is racist AF. Just because there are race issues elsewhere doesn’t excuse bad behavior in New England.

[mvp 78]

Bruins had first black NHL player.

 

Bill Russell struggled mightily with race issues during his playing days.

 

Racist Sox owner just dragged his feet. Yawkey was a piece of s***.

[notin]

Bruins had first black NHL player.

 

Bill Russell struggled mightily with race issues during his playing days.

 

Racist Sox owner just dragged his feet. Yawkey was a piece of s***.

 

The Celtics were the first team to draft a black NBA player (Earl Lloyd)...

[moonslav59]

Bruins had first black NHL player.

 

Bill Russell struggled mightily with race issues during his playing days.

 

Racist Sox owner just dragged his feet. Yawkey was a piece of s***.

 

Look what happened to Tommy Harper and the Sox as late as the 70's.

 

It was a sad stain on our team's history.

[dgalehouse]

Is Toronto a great organization or what ? Not only does the team stink, but this jabroni pitching today had to drive all night from Buffalo to Boston to make the start . I wonder if he is staying in the hotel or sleeping in his car .

[Nick]

As bad as Sale has pitched this year, today's game is another example of Sox not doing Sale any favor.

 

He's pitched scoreless 4 innings. Sox has not scored in first 3 innings. Nine strike outs after 4.

 

He can't seem to get a break even when he's pitching well.

 

He'll give up a homer or two and lose 4-2 today, my prediction after 3 1/2 innings.

 

 

Edit;

 

Sandy drives in Travis...1-0 Sox.

Edited July 18, 2019 by Nick

[jad]

As bad as Sale has pitched this year, today's game is another example of Sox not doing Sale any favor.

 

He's pitched scoreless 4 innings. Sox has not scored in first 3 innings. Nine strike outs after 4.

 

He can't seem to get a break even when he's pitching well.

 

He'll give up a homer or two and lose 4-2 today, my prediction after 3 1/2 innings.

 

 

Edit;

 

Sandy drives in Travis...1-0 Sox.

 

I think you may have posted this about 5 minutes too early!

[Nick]

I think you may have posted this about 5 minutes too early!

 

Happy to be wrong!

[moonslav59]

Sale becoming Sale again could be all we need.

[jung]

Sale becoming Sale again could be all we need.

 

If you mean the 95-96 FB Sale, I think that guy is gone. He overthrow one pitch at 96 according to one gun and 97 according to some other dame fool gun. It was nowhere near the plate and should have been a walk to a bases loaded since the count was 3-2. As usual, these days the hitter came up to the plate like a premature ejaculator using his bat as his "invading member". Most modern day hitters are so anxious to swing, they just can't help themselves, never mind the count, never mind any recognition for the pitcher they are facing, his strengths, weaknesses and tendencies or anything else. Would have loved to have seen these guys in little league with the opposing team screaming "swing batter". I have got to bet they swung every time.

 

But anyway cutting back on his FB velo (91 to 93) might be the key to regaining command of his Slider and Change again as that trade off was clearly evident today. The only problem with that if in fact that is the remedy is that Sale only throws get me over Sliders for strikes early in counts, 0-0 for example. The rest of the Sliders he throws are thrown in an effort to get hitters to chase. If he can only get 91-93 on his FB there is no earthly reason for a hitter with a brain to chase that Slider. Just sit dead read and feast on 91-93. We will just have to see how this plays out.

[Maxbialystock]

Sale becoming Sale again could be all we need.

 

No, we need more. But, if this is real, it will have an excellent psychological effect as well. Last year I thought JDM was like the reincarnation of Ortiz and just made everyone (well, not everyone) in the lineup better. From what little I saw, Sale was using three pitches--slider, fast ball, and changeup--and those should be enough for him.

[moonslav59]

If you mean the 95-96 FB Sale, I think that guy is gone. He overthrow one pitch at 96 according to one gun and 97 according to some other dame fool gun. It was nowhere near the plate and should have been a walk to a bases loaded since the count was 3-2. As usual, these days the hitter came up to the plate like a premature ejaculator using his bat as his "invading member". Most modern day hitters are so anxious to swing, they just can't help themselves, never mind the count, never mind any recognition for the pitcher they are facing, his strengths, weaknesses and tendencies or anything else. Would have loved to have seen these guys in little league with the opposing team screaming "swing batter". I have got to bet they swung every time.

 

But anyway cutting back on his FB velo (91 to 93) might be the key to regaining command of his Slider and Change again as that trade off was clearly evident today. The only problem with that if in fact that is the remedy is that Sale only throws get me over Sliders for strikes early in counts, 0-0 for example. The rest of the Sliders he throws are thrown in an effort to get hitters to chase. If he can only get 91-93 on his FB there is no earthly reason for a hitter with a brain to chase that Slider. Just sit dead read and feast on 91-93. We will just have to see how this plays out.

 

I mean 12 K and 5 GB outs Sale out of 18 outs.

 

I don't care about 93-94 vs 96-98 as long as he can reinvent himself into the guy we saw today on a consistent basis.

[moonslav59]

No, we need more. But, if this is real, it will have an excellent psychological effect as well. Last year I thought JDM was like the reincarnation of Ortiz and just made everyone (well, not everyone) in the lineup better. From what little I saw, Sale was using three pitches--slider, fast ball, and changeup--and those should be enough for him.

 

I don't disagree, but we have been 6-13 in Sale's first 19 starts. If we can go 9-4 in his next 13, and everyone else repeats what they have done, we'll be 5 games better and in the WC.

[vegasbob]

Sale becoming Sale again could be all we need.

 

Combine a highly effective 7 inning Sale with a miracle closer named Eovaldi and it could get interesting, especially if Mookie's current trend is real and continues. The hitting lineup finally makes sense with Betts-Devers-Bogaerts. JDM improving would be a huge add. Scoring first and running up pitch counts on the other team has worked before.

 

One concern is that a .667 winning % to season's end results in 96 wins, probably a high water mark for this team currently at a .546 mark. That might make the WC or just miss.

[Bellhorn04]

One concern is that a .667 winning % to season's end results in 96 wins, probably a high water mark for this team currently at a .546 mark. That might make the WC or just miss.

 

That's exactly why I don't like looking at things that way.

 

If you just say we're 3 games out of a Wild Card spot on July 18 it doesn't sound nearly as daunting.

[Maxbialystock]

I don't disagree, but we have been 6-13 in Sale's first 19 starts. If we can go 9-4 in his next 13, and everyone else repeats what they have done, we'll be 5 games better and in the WC.

 

Good point. My concern is that this year Sale needs more pitches per inning, which means fewer innings.

[Bellhorn04]

However you look at it, today was very encouraging. Sale is an intense competitor and I'm sure he's been working his ass off.

[a700hitter]

However you look at it, today was very encouraging. Sale is an intense competitor and I'm sure he's been working his ass off.

Leaving with a 4-0 lead after 6, it was not a lock with our bullpen and people would still be bitchin that Sale was under performing.

[Maxbialystock]

However you look at it, today was very encouraging. Sale is an intense competitor and I'm sure he's been working his ass off.

 

That is exactly the way I see Chris Sale.

[Maxbialystock]

Interesting sidebar. The Sox have now played 7 games out of 34 games in 34 days--in the hottest part of the summer. As if those ain't fun enough, after 3 games in Baltimore, the Sox play 14 straight against the Yankees and Rays.

[moonslav59]

Next Games with Probable SP"er:

 

@BAL Price

@BAL Porcello

@BAL Cashner

@TBR ERod (Our best 3 vs the Rays)

@TBR Sale

@TBR Price

NYY Porcello

NYY Cashner

NYY ERod

NYY Sale

(Day Off)

TBR (Trade deadline before next game.) Price +1 day rest

TBR Porcello +1

TBR ERod (2 of best 3 SP'ers vs Rays)

@NYY Cashner +2

@NYY @NYY Sale +1, Velazquez or Johnson

@NYY Price

[jung]

I mean 12 K and 5 GB outs Sale out of 18 outs.

 

I don't care about 93-94 vs 96-98 as long as he can reinvent himself into the guy we saw today on a consistent basis.

 

Yup...in truth a whole bunch of the pitchers in MLB should do that. The way hitters are swinging in this iteration of MLB, command is even more of a weapon than it was in the past. The pitcher that tries to overpower these guys is just playing into their hands. Why do that...because Manfred wants them to do that?

 

These hitters for the most part, do not care what the count is, don't care what the pitchers tendencies are, what the game situation is ....none of it. They are hackin'. Count could be 0-2, 1-2, 3-2, they are swinging like the count is 2-1 all the time.

 

Frankly I do think a number of pitchers in MLB are backing down the velo and throwing more breaking stuff. Whether there are enough of them that can actually exhibit command is another story. Remains to be seen given the sparsity of good pitchers left. But I applaud their effort. Let the velocity propagandists choke on it. Its not their careers being shortened....not them ending up on the operating table. Want to let it all hang out and throw hard for one inning....good for you....not sure that suggests a long career either unless a pitcher has the physical makeup and the technique to really throw hard without shortening his career. But I think starters backing off the velo and focusing on command is exactly what they should be doing.....virtually ALL OF THEM!

[moonslav59]

Yup...in truth a whole bunch of the pitchers in MLB should do that. The way hitters are swinging in this iteration of MLB, command is even more of a weapon than it was in the past. The pitcher that tries to overpower these guys is just playing into their hands. Why do that...because Manfred wants them to do that?

 

These hitters for the most part, do not care what the count is, don't care what the pitchers tendencies are, what the game situation is ....none of it. They are hackin'. Count could be 0-2, 1-2, 3-2, they are swinging like the count is 2-1 all the time.

 

Frankly I do think a number of pitchers in MLB are backing down the velo and throwing more breaking stuff. Whether there are enough of them that can actually exhibit command is another story. Remains to be seen given the sparsity of good pitchers left. But I applaud their effort. Let the velocity propagandists choke on it. Its not their careers being shortened....not them ending up on the operating table. Want to let it all hang out and throw hard for one inning....good for you....not sure that suggests a long career either unless a pitcher has the physical makeup and the technique to really throw hard without shortening his career. But I think starters backing off the velo and focusing on command is exactly what they should be doing.....virtually ALL OF THEM!

 

Many pitcher lose Velocity and never are the same, but when looking at the best pitchers of the last 15 years, almost all of them, except Felix Hernandez, went through a rough patch or two near age 30 and were able to come back with some decent to excellent seasons afterwards.

 

I've heard word that breaking balls are not breaking as much due to the new balls. That hurts guys trying to reinvent themselves as more than just a "thrower" (not that Sale was ever just a thrower).

 

Sale is a fierce sompetitor, and I'm betting on him finding a way to get back to a top 10 SP'er. To me, it's more about when not if, and today was a great sign thast the time may be very near.