The annual Jackie Bradley Jr thread (2019 Edition)

[S5Dewey]

JBj has saved games in the early innings with defensive play. He just helped win 2games on offense...the lead off single scoring on the sac fly and the next night the bunt to get the runners over that scored on the sac fly. That’s literally 2 games his offense helped win regRdless of his sub 200 BA....

 

Also don't forget that we saw a CF with sub-JBJ abilities not get to a ball in CF that JBJ would have gotten to every time.... and it cost them the game.

[Slasher9]

Also don't forget that we saw a CF with sub-JBJ abilities not get to a ball in CF that JBJ would have gotten to every time.... and it cost them the game.

 

Also true. It would be fair to say that had we not started JBj all weekend we would have gotten swept by the devil rays. But hey, let’s bench/trade/dfa Jackie!

[dgalehouse]

We hear a lot about Kiermaier's prowess in center . I was not overly impressed by what I saw in this series .

[mvp 78]

Also don't forget that we saw a CF with sub-JBJ abilities not get to a ball in CF that JBJ would have gotten to every time.... and it cost them the game.

 

Kiermaier is every bit as good as JBJ defensively.

[mvp 78]

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=cf&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2019&month=0&season1=2016&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=20,d

[notin]

Although in his Red Sox tenure DD has almost exclusively traded unproven prospects.

 

 

Very true. I believe Travis Shaw is the only exception.

 

I would actually expect Dalbec to be the one dealt, but Devers would easily get a bigger return...

[notin]

Can probably get a DH type cheaply via trade.

 

 

But by virtue of requiring multiple trades, you’re already creating a more complex scenario.

 

It might work out better. It might not. But already it requires 3 GMs to agree to moves as opposed to just two...

[mvp 78]

But by virtue of requiring multiple trades, you’re already creating a more complex scenario.

 

It might work out better. It might not. But already it requires 3 GMs to agree to moves as opposed to just two...

 

Not sure why it automatically requires a 3rd GM. Find a team that fits both needs.

[notin]

Not sure why it automatically requires a 3rd GM. Find a team that fits both needs.

 

 

Still more complicated. But certainly possible...

[Kimmi]

Kimmi wants to remind us that its defense, defense, defense that is an important or probably super important aspect of winning games but on the other hand, I think it is balance, balance, balance that requires runs to be scored and defense to be played to win games. When a player gets expensive, as JBJ is getting to be, he has to deliver both facets of the game. If not, we can find a FA for the same money who can deliver a better balance. JBJ's trade value, what other teams think he is worth, indicates something about his real ML value if one wants to monitize it. If we extend him for more than he is worth, shame on us.

 

Absolutely, a team needs to be balanced. If the other guys hit like they should, there is enough offense on the team to carry JBJ's, Vazquez/Leon's, and even Lin's weak bats.

 

That said, it does come down to who the best overall player at each position is. If Swihart's offense had been so strong that it outweighed the defense of Leon, than as much as I'd hate it, we'd have to go with Swihart.

[cp176]

Also don't forget that we saw a CF with sub-JBJ abilities not get to a ball in CF that JBJ would have gotten to every time.... and it cost them the game.

 

I think a lot of my fellow Mainer but do you really think that Kiermaier isn't JBJ's equal at least?

[OH FOY]

Keep an eye on Marcus Wilson, in the Swihart trade. Very Fast, CF with a very good Arm. Originally a Round 2 Comp Pick for the Cards*. Very hard worker I keep reading. He's in Portland now.

* Just looked it up in that Draft, 2nd Round Comp Pick by Arizona.

Edited April 22, 2019 by OH FOY!

[S5Dewey]

Kiermaier is every bit as good as JBJ defensively.

 

Then let's release JBJ and get Keirmaier. Wait... K's not available. So what's your point?

[S5Dewey]

I think a lot of my fellow Mainer but do you really think that Kiermaier isn't JBJ's equal at least?

 

He may or may not be, I don't know because I haven't seen Kiermaier play enough to make a decision. What I am confident of is that JBJ's stellar defense all year more than offsets his offensive deficiencies during his slumps. Which has nothing to do with Keirmaier.

[notin]

He may or may not be, I don't know because I haven't seen Kiermaier play enough to make a decision. What I am confident of is that JBJ's stellar defense all year more than offsets his offensive deficiencies during his slumps. Which has nothing to do with Keirmaier.

 

 

Bradley’s defense is outstanding, but there are quite a few CFs who are close or as good, including Kiermaier, Pillar, Buxton, Hamilton, Taylor, and Inciarte. And Laureano might be more exciting than any of them...

[oldtimer]

Also true. It would be fair to say that had we not started JBj all weekend we would have gotten swept by the devil rays. But hey, let’s bench/trade/dfa Jackie!

 

If we didn't have JBJ but we had a good fielder who could get a few hits, we might actually have been better off. It's not fair to say we would have been swept. Drawing a questionable conclusion.

[S5Dewey]

Bradley’s defense is outstanding, but there are quite a few CFs who are close or as good, including Kiermaier, Pillar, Buxton, Hamilton, Taylor, and Inciarte. And Laureano might be more exciting than any of them...

 

That may be, but what are the chances of landing one of those guys to replace JBJ? Because we are talking about trading him.

 

Here's what I like about JBJ: In all my years of watching baseball I've never seen a CF'er - or anyone else for that matter - who can do what JBJ does. On what is a routine play for him he turns his back on the ball, runs to 'the spot', and waits for the ball to come down. What that tells me is that he could have run further if he'd had to in order to make the play.

 

When I see other outfielders make outstanding plays I see them running flat-out to get to 'the spot' and catching the ball on the run. When I see JBJ tracking a ball and running flat-out to get to it I know that this is going to be a great catch... one that most of those other guys wouldn't have made.

[S5Dewey]

If we didn't have JBJ but we had a good fielder who could get a few hits, we might actually have been better off. It's not fair to say we would have been swept. Drawing a questionable conclusion.

 

Well, we couldn't have been any worse off! However, just as it's a questionable conclusion to say that had we not started JBJ would would have gotten swept, it's also a questionable conclusion to imply that "a few more hits" and less defense by another CF'er would have made the difference in the games.

[mvp 78]

Then let's release JBJ and get Keirmaier. Wait... K's not available. So what's your point?

 

You said he was worse than JBJ, but you were wrong... again.

[Slasher9]

Kiermaier is every bit as good as JBJ defensively.

 

Except he didn’t make the play that cost his team the game. Does JBj make that play? Yup.

[S5Dewey]

You said he was worse than JBJ, but you were wrong... again.

 

No, actually it was Mullins for the Orioles who didn't make that catch I was referring to. It was on April 12 in CF of Fenway.

 

I don't know how you dragged Keirmeir into this conversation but once again you're the one who's wrong. But that's not unusual.

[cp176]

He may or may not be, I don't know because I haven't seen Kiermaier play enough to make a decision. What I am confident of is that JBJ's stellar defense all year more than offsets his offensive deficiencies during his slumps. Which has nothing to do with Keirmaier.

 

Hopefully everyone agrees that JBJ plays stellar defense. I reacted to a comment that sounded like you were saying that he was better than Keirmaier. if that is not what you were saying, I apologize.

[notin]

That may be, but what are the chances of landing one of those guys to replace JBJ? Because we are talking about trading him.

 

Here's what I like about JBJ: In all my years of watching baseball I've never seen a CF'er - or anyone else for that matter - who can do what JBJ does. On what is a routine play for him he turns his back on the ball, runs to 'the spot', and waits for the ball to come down. What that tells me is that he could have run further if he'd had to in order to make the play.

 

When I see other outfielders make outstanding plays I see them running flat-out to get to 'the spot' and catching the ball on the run. When I see JBJ tracking a ball and running flat-out to get to it I know that this is going to be a great catch... one that most of those other guys wouldn't have made.

 

 

I think it’s impossible to really know if CF X doesn’t make some play that JBJ makes. He does make some great ones, but we’ve all seen other CFs do that. It’s just that because we watch JBJ more, we see him do it more often.

 

But for example, one of Bradley’s best was that robbed HR of Aaron Judge at Fenway last year. Definitely a play that inspires comments like “no other CF makes that play. But then we also saw Austin Jackson duplicate that play against the Sox. But as any of us rarely bother with watching Jackson unless he’s playing the Sox, it’s easier to write it off as a lucky fluke play.

 

All of the CFs I mentioned are extremely gifted defenders, but that doesn’t take anything away from Bradley, who shouldn’t be traded regardless.

 

Really the only one who makes plays no other CF makes is Laureano, because none of them have that cannon he has where most people have a right arm. Did you see his 8-2-4 double play this week? He covered a ton of ground before he leapt up and robbed a HR from the hitter. Turned around and threw the ball over 380 feet overthrowing the first baseman from deep left-center on the warning track. The catcher then backed it up and nailed the runner at second. Or his 350 foot strike to first last year that sailed back to the base in the air to double off Eric Young.

 

THOSE are plays no other CF makes.

 

But neither of those plays make Bradley any worse in CF. And as Bradley bats 8th, I can live with whatever he does at the plate...

Edited April 23, 2019 by notin

[S5Dewey]

I think it’s impossible to really know if CF X doesn’t make some play that JBJ makes. He does make some great ones, but we’ve all seen other CFs do that. It’s just that because we watch JBJ more, we see him do it more often.

 

But for example, one of Bradley’s best was that robbed HR of Aaron Judge at Fenway last year. Definitely a play that inspires comments like “no other CF makes that play. But then we also saw Austin Jackson duplicate that play against the Sox. But as any of us rarely bother with watching Jackson unless he’s playing the Sox, it’s easier to write it off as a lucky fluke play.

 

All of the CFs I mentioned are extremely gifted defenders, but that doesn’t take anything away from Bradley, who shouldn’t be traded regardless.

 

Really the only one who makes plays no other CF makes is Laureano, because none of them have that cannon he has where most people have a right arm. Did you see his 8-2-4 double play this week? He covered a ton of ground before he leapt up and robbed a HR from the hitter. Turned around and threw the ball over 350 feet overthrowing the first baseman from deep left-center on the warning track. The catcher then backed it up and nailed the runner at second. Or his 350 foot strike to first last year that sailed back to the base in the air to double off Eric Young.

 

THOSE are plays no other CF makes.

 

But neither of those plays make Bradley any worse in CF. And as Bradley bats 8th, I can live with whatever he does at the plate...

 

You may (or may not) have noticed that I'm trying to get away from saying that "nobody else makes that play" and it's because you're right. The only way anyone could say that would be if we could exactly duplicate the same play for two players - they both start in exactly the same place, leaning the same way, they both have the corner outfielders in their same spots (so there is no communication problems between them) etc.

 

Actually saying "nobody" is fairly ridiculous because it makes what one player does into an exclusive property, saying that nobody else in the world can do it. There are hundreds of minor league players in the US and it's not outside the realm of possibility that ONE of them has the defensive skills to play like JBJ, Kiermier, or your current man-crush of Laureano - but can't hit a lick. And that doesn't even begin to talk about the players in Japan or the Dominican Republic.

 

What I will say is that I see JBJ making plays that I believe many/most OF'ers don't make, Mullins not getting to the ball in Fenway being a prime example. Now, can I PROVE that JBJ would have made that play that Mullins didn't make and probably cost the O's the game? Nope, just as nobody else can prove that he wouldn't have, because, again, to PROVE it we'd have to be able to duplicate the play for JBJ.

 

Edit: However, I do reserve the right to use hypebole in my exuberance from time to time and say, "Wow, NOBODY makes that play!!", knowing full well that somebody, someplace might be able to replicate it.

Edited April 23, 2019 by S5Dewey

[notin]

You don’t have to prove it.

 

JBJ proves his worth with his defense every season. Even fWAR agrees and it doesn’t matter if they value some other CFs defense more. All that matters is JBJ keeps doing what he’s doing.

 

And I will say, I don’t think I’ve ever seen so many fans get worked up about the offensive contributions from the #8 hitter as they do with JBJ...

[notin]

That may be, but what are the chances of landing one of those guys to replace JBJ? Because we are talking about trading him.

.

 

 

As for this part of the response, Michael Taylor might be a good replacement for JBJ if the latter cannot be re-signed. He’s another no bat/all glove CF with some occasional pop and is blocked by younger players with more control, so he will continue to be available until he’s moved. Basically he’s a right-handed Bradley...

[Bellhorn04]

And I will say, I don’t think I’ve ever seen so many fans get worked up about the offensive contributions from the #8 hitter as they do with JBJ...

 

I think a lot of it is just the 'we can upgrade there!' mentality, similar to yours with the catching position.

Edited April 23, 2019 by Bellhorn04

[S5Dewey]

You don’t have to prove it.

 

JBJ proves his worth with his defense every season. Even fWAR agrees and it doesn’t matter if they value some other CFs defense more. All that matters is JBJ keeps doing what he’s doing.

 

And I will say, I don’t think I’ve ever seen so many fans get worked up about the offensive contributions from the #8 hitter as they do with JBJ...

 

Ahhh.. but when someone says it here they DO have to be able to prove it because someone is bound to step in and name three or four players who might be able to make the play - or even a better one - in an attempt to discredit the OP.

 

Quick story for you, which you may already know. Earl Weaver was known to be able to quote the entire MLB rule book and quote it chapter and verse. When asked why he bothered to do it he said it was because, "Being right isn't everything. Being able to PROVE IT is".

[Bellhorn04]

Quick story for you, which you may already know. Earl Weaver was known to be able to quote the entire MLB rule book and quote it chapter and verse. When asked why he bothered to do it he said it was because, "Being right isn't everything. Being able to PROVE IT is".

 

The Earl Weaver reference is a perfect opportunity for me to mention Paul Blair, another great centerfielder who was never a great hitter.

[S5Dewey]

The Earl Weaver reference is a perfect opportunity for me to mention Paul Blair, another great centerfielder who was never a great hitter.

 

Wasn't it Blair who had his moment of fame on Seinfeld by hitting a HR for a kid?