Pedroia out with renewed left knee pain

[moonslav59]

This was talked about in another thread, but best used here. Pedroia was scratched from his most recent game with renewed knee soreness. He has looked gimpy in his rehab starts and hasn't hit anywhere since 2017. He had a good run, but he is done.

 

It looks that way, but he's a fighter.I doubt he gives up.

[oldtimer]

It looks that way, but he's a fighter.I doubt he gives up.

 

That contract we gave him looks worse and worse. Like others have been saying, he may not play at all agaqin this year and be totally washed up. Too bad as he was a great player for us. We need to really move toward a young and capable everyday 2nd baseman. oubt we can afford one this year unless somebody emerges from the minors. Chavis doesn't appear to have the defensive finesse that we would like. Chatham? possibly.

[Nick]

This was talked about in another thread, but best used here. Pedroia was scratched from his most recent game with renewed knee soreness. He has looked gimpy in his rehab starts and hasn't hit anywhere since 2017. He had a good run, but he is done.

 

Paging Betts, Paging Mr. Betts....

 

When you have $300M chip on the table, you take it. Be smart. Someone is giving you bad financial advise. Stick an opt out clause. Take the money, son.

[Swiharts Ghost]

Absolutely Love Pedey as does every Redsox fan .I have a question about Pedey health his future his financial status .Would it not be possible to have a settlement in place now ? Here's my proposal to Pedeys camp .Made special assistant to Alex Cora and when he heals made infield coach .Retire as a player and rerouted his salary as special assistant and infield coach .I think Pedeys a lifer and yes it's rediculously expensive for a coach but it would free up money for the team to sign someone in a couple months if not sooner .I don't know if this is a course ? Deadend.Can Pedey even do the day to day as a Coach ? I'd say maybe Edited May 13, 2019 by Swiharts Ghost

[moonslav59]

Absolutely Love Pedey as does every Redsox fan .I have a question about Pedey health his future his financial status .Would it not be possible to have a settlement in place now ? Here's my proposal to Pedeys camp .Made special assistant to Alex Cora and when he heals made infield coach .Retire as a player and rerouted his salary as special assistant and infield coach .I think Pedeys a lifer and yes it's rediculously expensive for a coach but it would free up money for the team to sign someone in a couple months if not sooner .I don't know if this is a course ? Deadend.Can Pedey even do the day to day as a Coach ? I'd say maybe

 

I suggested this long ago.

 

If it's possible, we should try, butb that will only possibly happen when Pedey decides he's done trying.

[S5Dewey]

I suggested this long ago.

 

If it's possible, we should try, butb that will only possibly happen when Pedey decides he's done trying.

 

Ya. You and I both kicked this around and the consensus here was that the PA (and all the other teams in MLB) would have a hissy-fit if Pedey walked away from that much money as a player and then got it back as a coach.

[jacksonianmarch]

It wouldn’t work. It’s intentionally skirting the rules, which is expressly prohibited in the CBA. You’re stuck with his salary

[moonslav59]

It wouldn’t work. It’s intentionally skirting the rules, which is expressly prohibited in the CBA. You’re stuck with his salary

 

One never knows.

[cp176]

Absolutely Love Pedey as does every Redsox fan .I have a question about Pedey health his future his financial status .Would it not be possible to have a settlement in place now ? Here's my proposal to Pedeys camp .Made special assistant to Alex Cora and when he heals made infield coach .Retire as a player and rerouted his salary as special assistant and infield coach .I think Pedeys a lifer and yes it's rediculously expensive for a coach but it would free up money for the team to sign someone in a couple months if not sooner .I don't know if this is a course ? Deadend.Can Pedey even do the day to day as a Coach ? I'd say maybe

 

With the latest set back, Pedroia's story continues just to get worse and sadder. I think that at this time it is a legit discussion as to whether or not he could help us even if if he was able to come back and play. It is very sad but as much as we hear "You can't count him out" - "if anybody can do it, he can" - reality seems to be saying something different. I understand that we are going to keep paying him but even if he was able to make an appearance on the field, I'm not sure if he could really help us at this point. It was a wonderful run but personally I'm going to accept what is looking inevitable.

[Bellhorn04]

One never knows.

 

You're dreaming.

 

What you have proposed would be a such a crude, blatant attempt to circumvent the tax that it would be laughable.

[jad]

I suggested this long ago.

 

If it's possible, we should try, butb that will only possibly happen when Pedey decides he's done trying.

 

An obvious violation of the CBA. I believe this is specifically addressed, but I'm not up for reading the 250pp of the agreement to find it. I'm sure there are other obvious violations that aren't specifically addressed either; I can't find anywhere a clause claiming a team can't pay a player in chimpanzees rather than dollars, so maybe there's a loophole there as well.

[Bellhorn04]

An obvious violation of the CBA. I believe this is specifically addressed, but I'm not up for reading the 250pp of the agreement to find it. I'm sure there are other obvious violations that aren't specifically addressed either; I can't find anywhere a clause claiming a team can't pay a player in chimpanzees rather than dollars, so maybe there's a loophole there as well.

 

I already dug it out of the CBA some weeks back. There's a general clause that prohibits teams and players from any transaction that would deliberately attempt to circumvent the tax.

 

moon's scheme would be the textbook definition of that.

[moonslav59]

You're dreaming.

 

What you have proposed would be a such a crude, blatant attempt to circumvent the tax that it would be laughable.

 

I'm not so sure.

 

Pedey may retire- like Dempster did, and if we sign him as a coach/consultant/whatever for more than what he is probably worth in that role, it may be hard to prove anything in a grievance or court of law.

 

(BTW, I said "maybe" a "slight chance" when talking about this idea long ago. I doubt it can work, but I also doubt it's an impossible dream.)

[moonslav59]

I already dug it out of the CBA some weeks back. There's a general clause that prohibits teams and players from any transaction that would deliberately attempt to circumvent the tax.

 

moon's scheme would be the textbook definition of that.

 

Have players ever retired and then signed with their team as a coach? The only issue would be that Pedey gave up money by retiring, and if it was an obvious overpay for a coaching salary afterwards. If it is not so obvious, then maybe...

[Bellhorn04]

Have players ever retired and then signed with their team as a coach? The only issue would be that Pedey gave up money by retiring, and if it was an obvious overpay for a coaching salary afterwards. If it is not so obvious, then maybe...

 

It would be obvious if they pay him 12-13 million a year.

 

The thing is, it would require a wink-wink nudge-nudge backroom deal between Pedey and the team.

 

Sort of like the wink-wink nudge-nudge deal that got us the sanctions on the international signings, only worse.

 

Even trying it would make the team a laughingstock. You can just imagine the fun the media (especially New York Post and that sort of media) would have with it.

[notin]

I already dug it out of the CBA some weeks back. There's a general clause that prohibits teams and players from any transaction that would deliberately attempt to circumvent the tax.

 

moon's scheme would be the textbook definition of that.

 

 

The Sox could do it, but Pedroia would still have to count towards the luxury tax.

 

And that wouldn’t be a ridiculous outcome for that situation, like it was when the NBA decided the late Reggie Lewis still counted against the league salary cap...

[notin]

Have players ever retired and then signed with their team as a coach? The only issue would be that Pedey gave up money by retiring, and if it was an obvious overpay for a coaching salary afterwards. If it is not so obvious, then maybe...

 

 

It’s very obvious. Especially since the Sox are so far over the threshold for payment.

 

If the Sox had a payroll of $170mill, you’d have a better argument. But this scenario is obvious even to us on a message board. Don’t you think MLB accountants who know the luxury tax code inside out would easily be just as suspicious

[moonslav59]

It would be obvious if they pay him 12-13 million a year.

 

The thing is, it would require a wink-wink nudge-nudge backroom deal between Pedey and the team.

 

Sort of like the wink-wink nudge-nudge deal that got us the sanctions on the international signings, only worse.

 

Even trying it would make the team a laughingstock. You can just imagine the fun the media (especially New York Post and that sort of media) would have with it.

 

You know we had a wink-wink deal with AGon, and announced it after the season started, so we could save taxes.

 

I'm not even talking "wink-wink" though. Would it really be outrageous for the Sox to sign Pedey to a $12M lifetime services deal? Or, to sign him to a 24 year $14M deal as a consultant? I could see them doing that without him retiring early. How can anyone prove that is circumventing the system, if Pedey chooses to retire a year early.

 

Nobody acted crazy when Dempster gave up his last year for nothing.

 

Look, I admit it probably won't work, but in all honesty, I wouldn't be surprised, if the Sox sign Pedey as a coach after he retires, anyways.

[moonslav59]

The Sox could do it, but Pedroia would still have to count towards the luxury tax.

 

And that wouldn’t be a ridiculous outcome for that situation, like it was when the NBA decided the late Reggie Lewis still counted against the league salary cap...

 

How about this, then. Say Pedey agrees to restructure his contract from 2 years remaining at $25M combined to $30M over the next 30 years as a player/coach? The union might complain, but he's not taking a pay cut.

[Slasher9]

It wouldn’t work. It’s intentionally skirting the rules, which is expressly prohibited in the CBA. You’re stuck with his salary

 

maybe we can spike his breakfast OJ with some D-bol. you know...get out of the payroll hit like you guys did with A-roid?

[Slasher9]

With the latest set back, Pedroia's story continues just to get worse and sadder. I think that at this time it is a legit discussion as to whether or not he could help us even if if he was able to come back and play. It is very sad but as much as we hear "You can't count him out" - "if anybody can do it, he can" - reality seems to be saying something different. I understand that we are going to keep paying him but even if he was able to make an appearance on the field, I'm not sure if he could really help us at this point. It was a wonderful run but personally I'm going to accept what is looking inevitable.

 

he's about a week away from needing one of those "i've fallen and cant get up" buttons around his neck.

[Slasher9]

I already dug it out of the CBA some weeks back. There's a general clause that prohibits teams and players from any transaction that would deliberately attempt to circumvent the tax.

 

moon's scheme would be the textbook definition of that.

 

neither the owners or the PA would be on board with this. no way it will happen. he will do exactly what david wright is doing.

[Slasher9]

I'm not so sure.

 

Pedey may retire- like Dempster did, and if we sign him as a coach/consultant/whatever for more than what he is probably worth in that role, it may be hard to prove anything in a grievance or court of law.

 

(BTW, I said "maybe" a "slight chance" when talking about this idea long ago. I doubt it can work, but I also doubt it's an impossible dream.)

 

it would be such a scumbag move. no way the billionaire boys club would let JH get away with that. not a chance of this happening.

[Slasher9]

 

Even trying it would make the team a laughingstock. .

 

this. JH didnt spend the last 2 decades building the Boston Red Sox up to the #1 MLB franchise in the eyes of mostly everyone to pull some s*** like circumventing the LT by having pedroia "retire" and then hired as a "coach" for $13MM per season.

[Bellhorn04]

this. JH didnt spend the last 2 decades building the Boston Red Sox up to the #1 MLB franchise in the eyes of mostly everyone to pull some s*** like circumventing the LT by having pedroia "retire" and then hired as a "coach" for $13MM per season.

 

Exactly.

[moonslav59]

it would be such a scumbag move. no way the billionaire boys club would let JH get away with that. not a chance of this happening.

 

An arbitrator or court would probably have the final say- not the owners.

[moonslav59]

this. JH didnt spend the last 2 decades building the Boston Red Sox up to the #1 MLB franchise in the eyes of mostly everyone to pull some s*** like circumventing the LT by having pedroia "retire" and then hired as a "coach" for $13MM per season.

 

JH did force a rule change due to the Rusney Castillo fiasco.

 

Billionaires often look for ways to circumvent the rules without breaking rules or by getting away with breaking them.

 

The organization got caught cheating with International FAs.

 

The organization has done "wink-wink" deals with players like AGon.

 

It's not like there is no history of JH trying to save on paying taxes. Let's not pretend we have been squeaky clean.

 

Besides, my point is, we may try to do it. It may work- it may not, but first Pedey has to be on board with the idea.

 

My point is not that I am sure it will work. It may be a long shot. it may be impossible. I don't think it is a "scumbag" move as these taxes only go towards to fattening cheap owner's pockets anyways.

[Slasher9]

lol. your last sentence is a pretty good point.

[notin]

How about this, then. Say Pedey agrees to restructure his contract from 2 years remaining at $25M combined to $30M over the next 30 years as a player/coach? The union might complain, but he's not taking a pay cut.

 

 

The MLBPA isn’t the issue here. They’d love to do away with luxury taxes and anything else that dissuades teams from spending $1billion on payroll. The issue is the MLB front office and the CBA. Even this is a clear attempt to circumvent paying a luxury tax. Since the MLB office not only is responsible for calculating the tax and also for collecting it, they’re very likely to call this a deliberate attempt to circumvent it.

 

Pedroia has two years left at a modest amount. The best course of action is to simply ride out his deal. It’s not like building a 40 man roster with $230mill is so much more difficult than building one with $244mill. Like nearly every GM, Dombrowski has had to deal with deadweight contracts before and ones far, far worse than Pedroia’s, like Sandoval for example. Heck if he had that extra cash to spend, chances are it would end up on another deadweight deal at some point. Maybe 3 years from now, we can have this same discussion about turning Price into a $31mill bullpen coach.

 

The Sox will be fine in spite of this complete non-issue.

[mvp 78]

My point is not that I am sure it will work. It may be a long shot. it may be impossible. I don't think it is a "scumbag" move as these taxes only go towards to fattening cheap owner's pockets anyways.

 

The Sox have faced stiff punishment before (draft picks, IFA restrictions) and I'm not sure they want to go down that road again. However, if they do this and get reamed for it, you'll no longer be able to complain about the cliff since they would have gotten the idea from your post.