The Pen

[moonslav59]

2nd half of 2013:

WHIP

0.313 Uehara

0.976 Breslow

[Bellhorn04]

2nd half of 2013:

WHIP

0.313 Uehara

 

Beyond sick.

[moonslav59]

Beyond sick.

 

Here's something even sicker....

 

Over his last 47 games of 2013 (50 IP):

 

June 10-end of season

 

167 PAs against

15 hits

3 BB (1 Intentional)

1 HR

67 Ks (if you take away the IBB, his K/BB ratio was 33.5 to 1.)

2 ER (0.36 ERA)

 

.092 BA

.108 OBP

.147 SLG

.255 OPS

 

Then, he won the ALCS MVP and had these playoff numbers in 2013:

 

13.2 IP

6 H

0 BB

.439 WHIP

16K (Infinity K/BB rate)

1 ER (a solo blast)

1 bad pitch while facing 46 batters on playoff teams!

 

Edited May 20, 2019 by moonslav59

[Bellhorn04]

Here's something even sicker....

 

Over his last 47 games of 2013 (50 IP):

 

June 10-end of season

 

167 PAs against

15 hits

3 BB (1 Intentional)

1 HR

67 Ks (if you take away the IBB, his K/BB ratio was 33.5 to 1.)

2 ER (0.36 ERA)

 

.092 BA

.108 OBP

.147 SLG

.255 OPS

 

Then, he won the ALCS MVP and had these playoff numbers in 2013:

 

13.2 IP

6 H

0 BB

.439 WHIP

16K (Infinity K/BB rate)

1 ER (a solo blast)

1 bad pitch while facing 46 batters on playoff teams!

 

 

There's never been anything like it, I don't think.

[moonslav59]

There's never been anything like it, I don't think.

 

Those last 64 IP, including the playoffs have to be unmatched, at least by a RP'er. Maybe Bob Gibson had a better stretch back in '68.

 

Bob went 11 straight games with...

11 CG (99 IP)

0.27 ERA

.390 OPS against

83 K and 13 BB

 

[mvp 78]

How about that bum Matt Barnes? He's been horrible this year, right SCM?

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/statsd.aspx?playerid=12863&position=P&gds=&gde=

[moonslav59]

How about that bum Matt Barnes? He's been horrible this year, right SCM?

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/statsd.aspx?playerid=12863&position=P&gds=&gde=

 

He threw hate at about 10 Sox players all winter long. Two off them are off to bad starts (JBJ & Brasier), but I'm sure all you hear about is about those 2.

[vegasbob]

Walden, Barnes, Workman combined WHIP for 2019 is 2.35 (0.78 aver.) and are 11-1 W-L, ERA's in the 1's and 2.21 for BW. Starters are 10-16, counting Hector V. as a starter. Best ERA is Prices 3.29, all others in the 4's or higher.

[Slasher9]

How about that bum Matt Barnes? He's been horrible this year, right SCM?

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/statsd.aspx?playerid=12863&position=P&gds=&gde=

 

he poops himself everytime he steps on the mound!

Sad!

[moonslav59]

Walden, Barnes, Workman combined WHIP for 2019 is 2.35 (0.78 aver.) and are 11-1 W-L, ERA's in the 1's and 2.21 for BW. Starters are 10-16, counting Hector V. as a starter. Best ERA is Prices 3.29, all others in the 4's or higher.

 

2.35?

[moonslav59]

he poops himself everytime he steps on the mound!

Sad!

 

Who poops, SCM?

[Kimmi]

Well , I still ask , if they had 11 career saves and 24 career save ( not hold ) opportunities, what happened in the other 13 save opportunities?

 

Those 2 guys did blow 13 save opportunities out of 24, but here is why that stat is misleading.

 

BR defines 'save opportunities' as simply saves + blown saves. So yes, the times a reliever pitches the 8th and blows the save is counted as a save opportunity. Pitchers that often pitch in the 8th inning or earlier are getting penalized for blown saves, but are not getting any credit for any of the successful holds.

 

Let's say that Barnes comes into the 8th inning in 20 games and successfully holds 15 of them. That's a success rate of 75%, with 5 blown saves.

 

Then he comes into a save situation in the 9th inning in 5 games and successfully saves all of them. That's a success rate of 100%, with 5 saves.

 

Between the 8th and 9th innings, Barnes was successful 20 out of 25 times, or 80% of the time.

 

With BR's definition of save opportunities, Barnes had 10 save opportunities, and was successful in only 5 of them, making his success rate only 50%. All of his successful holds are ignored with that stat.

[Kimmi]

Those 2 guys did blow 13 save opportunities out of 24, but here is why that stat is misleading.

 

BR defines 'save opportunities' as simply saves + blown saves. So yes, the times a reliever pitches the 8th and blows the save is counted as a save opportunity. Pitchers that often pitch in the 8th inning or earlier are getting penalized for blown saves, but are not getting any credit for any of the successful holds.

 

Let's say that Barnes comes into the 8th inning in 20 games and successfully holds 15 of them. That's a success rate of 75%, with 5 blown saves.

 

Then he comes into a save situation in the 9th inning in 5 games and successfully saves all of them. That's a success rate of 100%, with 5 saves.

 

Between the 8th and 9th innings, Barnes was successful 20 out of 25 times, or 80% of the time.

 

With BR's definition of save opportunities, Barnes had 10 save opportunities, and was successful in only 5 of them, making his success rate only 50%. All of his successful holds are ignored with that stat.

 

Also, FTR, last I checked neither holds nor blown saves were official MLB stats. Therefore, there are slightly different criteria for those stats, depending on which site you use.

[Kimmi]

You're just not getting it. A blown hold is treated as a blown save. Brasier got a blown save even though he came in in the 7th and was not going to get a save.

 

It's f***ed-up stats.

 

That pretty much sums it up.

 

Saves, Holds, Blown Saves are all bad stats, IMO.

[Kimmi]

They have had 24 save opportunities. That means the ninth inning. That is all I am talking about . They have 11 saves out of those 24 opportunities. It has nothing at all to do with the eighth inning. Just the ninth inning save situation.

 

No, it doesn't mean 9th inning.

[Kimmi]

I just want to show some appreciation for Marcus Walden. 6-0 with a 1.37 ERA. Dude has been amazing this year.

 

{Applauds} Both you for making the post and Walden.

[Kimmi]

Barnes has been outf***ingstanding this year.

 

The back end of the BP has been really good. Cora has used those guys effectively.

 

Somebody (Finn, I think) brought up a good point about how Kimbrel was not really open to the idea of what Cora is doing this year.

[Kimmi]

This just in. Sox played 3 at home vs. probably the best team in MLB right now, and, it has to be said, the Sox did not impress.

 

Except in one area, the bullpen, which actually did pretty darn well, especially in comparison to the rotation. Porcello did pitch well in game 1--2 runs in 7 innings. The bullpen gave up 0 earned runs in 2 innings. In game 2 Velazquez gave up 5 runs in .1 inning, the bullpen 2 in 8.2. In game 3 the not so great Chris Sale gave up 3 runs in 5.1 innings, the bullpen 0 runs in 3.2 innings.

 

The lineup meanwhile just rolled over in the first two games and in the 3d game finally came thru--against Wade Miley. But just barely.

 

Big defensive edge to the Astros in this series. Same goes for baserunning. I don't know which was worse in game 3, Devers getting picked off by a mile or Pearce not taking a good lead on a popup that sent the firstbaseman out into RF. Both players were simply brain dead.

 

The line up was kind of frustrating, but they had guys on base. They just couldn't get the timely hit.

 

The Sox did not play nearly as bad as the series outcome suggests. Cora said it best. The Sox basically had 2 bad innings and lost the series.

[Kimmi]

https://mlb.nbcsports.com/2019/05/20/koji-uehara-has-retired/

 

Koji Uehara has retired from baseball.

 

Uehara, 44, has spent the past two seasons with the Yomiuri Giants, which is the where he began his career way back in 1998. He spent eight years there as a starter, winning 20 games in his rookie season, then one year as a closer and one year in swingman duties before coming to the United States.

 

Once in the majors he pitched for four different major league teams over nine seasons — the Orioles, Rangers, Red Sox and Cubs — from 2009-2017. In that time he posted an excellent 2.66 ERA, 0.89 WHIP, and 572/78 K/BB ratio in 480.2 innings and notched 95 saves. He won a World Series ring with the Red Sox in 2013 and was an All-Star in 2014. Uehara’s last big league stint in America with the Cubs in 2017, for whom he posted a 3.98 ERA (111 ERA+) in 49 games.

 

Happy trails to an excellent reliever.

 

Koji was the man. I thank him for his time with Boston, particularly 2013, and wish him the best.

[notin]

The back end of the BP has been really good. Cora has used those guys effectively.

 

Somebody (Finn, I think) brought up a good point about how Kimbrel was not really open to the idea of what Cora is doing this year.

 

 

Yes Cora is running the pen using something I call The Notin Method, which is “use your best reliever against their best hitters and don’t worry about the save.” Although this method has also been called “just running a bullpen before the days of specialized closers.”

[jacksonianmarch]

I wonder if some of the pen usage is financial. Nothing spikes a relievers cost more than saves. If Cora doesn’t think it hurts the club, then spreading saves out between Brasier (non arb eligible in 2020), Workman (arb eligible but horrible 2018 will drop his arb price) and Barnes (top notch 2018, a big 2019 save tally would drive his cost way up) would drop the total outlay to the pen in 2020 salary and may give DD some more cash to play with

[Bellhorn04]

I wonder if some of the pen usage is financial. Nothing spikes a relievers cost more than saves. If Cora doesn’t think it hurts the club, then spreading saves out between Brasier (non arb eligible in 2020), Workman (arb eligible but horrible 2018 will drop his arb price) and Barnes (top notch 2018, a big 2019 save tally would drive his cost way up) would drop the total outlay to the pen in 2020 salary and may give DD some more cash to play with

 

Core is running the pen the way he thinks best to win baseball games. He's not trying to limit guys' saves to suppress their future earnings.

[Slasher9]

I wonder if some of the pen usage is financial. Nothing spikes a relievers cost more than saves. If Cora doesn’t think it hurts the club, then spreading saves out between Brasier (non arb eligible in 2020), Workman (arb eligible but horrible 2018 will drop his arb price) and Barnes (top notch 2018, a big 2019 save tally would drive his cost way up) would drop the total outlay to the pen in 2020 salary and may give DD some more cash to play with

 

i thought i was a conspiracy theorist. this takes the cake.

[dgalehouse]

I wonder if some of the pen usage is financial. Nothing spikes a relievers cost more than saves. If Cora doesn’t think it hurts the club, then spreading saves out between Brasier (non arb eligible in 2020), Workman (arb eligible but horrible 2018 will drop his arb price) and Barnes (top notch 2018, a big 2019 save tally would drive his cost way up) would drop the total outlay to the pen in 2020 salary and may give DD some more cash to play with

 

That is quite a stretch . I very much doubt it . However , there is certainly an effort by baseball owners and management to control spending . No doubt about that .

[jung]

I wonder if some of the pen usage is financial. Nothing spikes a relievers cost more than saves. If Cora doesn’t think it hurts the club, then spreading saves out between Brasier (non arb eligible in 2020), Workman (arb eligible but horrible 2018 will drop his arb price) and Barnes (top notch 2018, a big 2019 save tally would drive his cost way up) would drop the total outlay to the pen in 2020 salary and may give DD some more cash to play with

 

Doubt it. Earning some salary points for DD to use won't do Cora much good if the team underperforms.

 

Cora has already boxed himself in with his Rotation strategy this year. That will ONLY pay off if the Sox get through to the ALCS. If they don't get through to the ALCS then his entire approach to the Rotation will come under serious scrutiny. Serious scrutiny for the Manager is no fun in this town. So I suspect he has no interest in trying to feather DD's nest for him.

[mvp 78]

I wonder if some of the pen usage is financial. Nothing spikes a relievers cost more than saves. If Cora doesn’t think it hurts the club, then spreading saves out between Brasier (non arb eligible in 2020), Workman (arb eligible but horrible 2018 will drop his arb price) and Barnes (top notch 2018, a big 2019 save tally would drive his cost way up) would drop the total outlay to the pen in 2020 salary and may give DD some more cash to play with

 

Yes, the Red Sox are basically treating their players the same way the Oakland Raiders do. Good point.

[vegasbob]

I wonder if some of the pen usage is financial. Nothing spikes a relievers cost more than saves. If Cora doesn’t think it hurts the club, then spreading saves out between Brasier (non arb eligible in 2020), Workman (arb eligible but horrible 2018 will drop his arb price) and Barnes (top notch 2018, a big 2019 save tally would drive his cost way up) would drop the total outlay to the pen in 2020 salary and may give DD some more cash to play with

 

Cora has enough to do just running the lineup and game action. I doubt he has the CFO in the dugout, checking the AI to predict the value of a players contribution in a given situation . If asked, Cora might say, just get the last 9 outs and we will all get paid.

[Kimmi]

Yes Cora is running the pen using something I call The Notin Method, which is “use your best reliever against their best hitters and don’t worry about the save.” Although this method has also been called “just running a bullpen before the days of specialized closers.”

 

I fully endorse The Notin Method.

[Kimmi]

I wonder if some of the pen usage is financial. Nothing spikes a relievers cost more than saves. If Cora doesn’t think it hurts the club, then spreading saves out between Brasier (non arb eligible in 2020), Workman (arb eligible but horrible 2018 will drop his arb price) and Barnes (top notch 2018, a big 2019 save tally would drive his cost way up) would drop the total outlay to the pen in 2020 salary and may give DD some more cash to play with

 

I very much doubt that keeping their salaries in check has anything to do with the way Cora is running his pen.

[notin]

I very much doubt that keeping their salaries in check has anything to do with the way Cora is running his pen.

 

I have heard that some teams are hesitant to use pitchers in their pre-arb years as closers, primarily to keep the cost down.

 

But I can’t say for certain whether or not this was ever actually done...