The Pen

[fxkatt]

Here's what Henry said: 'We do have constraints. It's not necessarily the luxury tax that is your constraint. It's how much money you're willing to lose.'

 

There's a limit somewhere. Let's say it's 5 million above the highest threshold this year. That would still only leave DD about $10 mill left to play with.

 

But the best way to lose money is to exceed the top threshold. So, I think the orders are to stay below... make trades if you need to but stay below. We'll see soon enough.

[dgalehouse]

Every source everywhere seems to say the Sox are not concerned with the luxury tax. So the decision to not exceed the highest threshold appears to rest solely with Dombrowski...

 

Hard to tell just what the policy is . It certainly would not be appropriate for Dombrowski to say that Henry gave him an order not to exceed the threshold. You can't do that.

[S5Dewey]

Here's what Henry said: 'We do have constraints. It's not necessarily the luxury tax that is your constraint. It's how much money you're willing to lose.'

This brings up two questions. Is JH trying to tell us that he's losing money? And if so, do you believe him?

[Bellhorn04]

This brings up two questions. Is JH trying to tell us that he's losing money? And if so, do you believe him?

 

I certainly don't know the answer to that. But we do know that we have the highest payroll the last 2 years, that we were more than $40 million over the first tax threshold last year, and that we will be around the same this year.

 

So I have no beefs with JH whatsoever.

[Slasher9]

This brings up two questions. Is JH trying to tell us that he's losing money? And if so, do you believe him?

 

every dollar he spends on the "Red Sox" is one less dollar that goes into John Henry's personal bank account. he loses $ everytime. or is it he is just earning less $? that's why these dudes are billionaires..... there is a point where there is a limit on how much less of income he will accept from the "Red Sox". it's never enough...so i have been told.....

make sense?

[notin]

Hard to tell just what the policy is . It certainly would not be appropriate for Dombrowski to say that Henry gave him an order not to exceed the threshold. You can't do that.

 

 

Why not? It’s not like anyone has grounds to accuse Henry of being cheap...

[dgalehouse]

Worse comes to worst , he could sell naming rights for Fenway to Prudential . " Welcome to The Rock , Formerly America's most beloved ballpark . "

[Bellhorn04]

Worse comes to worst , he could sell naming rights for Fenway to Prudential . " Welcome to The Rock , Formerly America's most beloved ballpark . "

 

That'd still be better than Guaranteed Rate Field.

[sk7326]

every dollar he spends on the "Red Sox" is one less dollar that goes into John Henry's personal bank account. he loses $ everytime. or is it he is just earning less $? that's why these dudes are billionaires..... there is a point where there is a limit on how much less of income he will accept from the "Red Sox". it's never enough...so i have been told.....

make sense?

 

He spends a lot of the team's revenue on payroll - I have no problem ... I don't like him talking about limits since the limits are all artificial. HOWEVER, he has certainly not been a miser.

[notin]

But

Getting near the bottom of the barrell.

 

 

The Rangers signed Zach McAllister, number 3 on my list, easily my most questionable ranking, but it can be defended somewhat...

[moonslav59]

I certainly don't know the answer to that. But we do know that we have the highest payroll the last 2 years, that we were more than $40 million over the first tax threshold last year, and that we will be around the same this year.

 

So I have no beefs with JH whatsoever.

 

Exactly!

 

And, after spending way more than anyone else last year and already spending more than anyone else this year, I'm not going to criticize Henry (of DD) for not spending more and more, getting taxed more and more and getting lower picks due to penalties year after year.

 

Personally, I don't want us to become the next Steinbrenner Yankees. My guess is many a non Sox fan already view us the way we used to view the Yanks...with scorn, hatred and frustration.

 

[moonslav59]

But

 

 

The Rangers signed Zach McAllister, number 3 on my list, easily my most questionable ranking, but it can be defended somewhat...

 

Who's left?

 

Or, what's your top 10 now?

 

Any other trade ideas like the one you made earlier?

[sk7326]

Exactly!

 

And, after spending way more than anyone else last year and already spending more than anyone else this year, I'm not going to criticize Henry (of DD) for not spending more and more, getting taxed more and more and getting lower picks due to penalties year after year.

 

Personally, I don't want us to become the next Steinbrenner Yankees. My guess is many a non Sox fan already view us the way we used to view the Yanks...with scorn, hatred and frustration.

 

 

We already are - we never stopped.

[moonslav59]

We already are - we never stopped.

 

We haven't blown away all others on budgets until last year and maybe this year.

[fxkatt]

We haven't blown away all others on budgets until last year and maybe this year.

 

Exactly. The Steinbrenner years were ugly years for the AL and the MLB both in terms of a "level playing field" and crude, mob-like posturings from "the Boss." Thanks for pointing out the current elephant in the room. I guess we can say that a lot of our extra salary consist of dumb long-term contracts, but old George could have many times said the same.

[Nick]

I live in Midwest.

 

Only blow back I get for being a Red Sox fan is team's geographical association with the Patriots. Pretty much everyone hates Patriots outside of New England. I always have to explain I became a Sox fan back in 1967 and I have never been a Patriots fan. I don't dislike the team like so many do. Just not a fan.

[moonslav59]

Exactly. The Steinbrenner years were ugly years for the AL and the MLB both in terms of a "level playing field" and crude, mob-like posturings from "the Boss." Thanks for pointing out the current elephant in the room. I guess we can say that a lot of our extra salary consist of dumb long-term contracts, but old George could have many times said the same.

 

The only dumb, extra salary on the books this year is Pablo, and it's his last year. (I guess you could count Castillo.)

 

Don't get me wrong, I love winning and I don't mind us spending big or even spending more than anyone else, but to vastly outspend all other teams for more than 2-3 years, it becomes an issue for me.

 

[fxkatt]

I think I'd rather we be consistently among the top ten spenders than to be the highest spender. But, given the Yankees long plutocrat reign, I agree that 2-3 or 3-4 years at the top is satisfactory. After all, we are in the same division with NY... gotta compete and gotta work on a good balance of youth and vets to keep the cap within reason.

[moonslav59]

I think I'd rather we be consistently among the top ten spenders than to be the highest spender. But, given the Yankees long plutocrat reign, I agree that 2-3 or 3-4 years at the top is satisfactory. After all, we are in the same division with NY... gotta compete and gotta work on a good balance of youth and vets to keep the cap within reason.

 

The Youth part has a lot of work to do with a stifling system in place that makes it very difficult to do so, when you are winning and spending over the $40M line.

[cp176]

I live in Midwest.

 

Only blow back I get for being a Red Sox fan is team's geographical association with the Patriots. Pretty much everyone hates Patriots outside of New England. I always have to explain I became a Sox fan back in 1967 and I have never been a Patriots fan. I don't dislike the team like so many do. Just not a fan.

 

I am a great fan of the Patriots program and the way they have consistently run it for so long. I actually think that the Red Sox in some respects have adopted some of the same philosophies. If I were an opponent, rather than hate what some might consider one of the greatest programs in the history of sports, I would try to copy it.

[notin]

I live in Midwest.

 

Only blow back I get for being a Red Sox fan is team's geographical association with the Patriots. Pretty much everyone hates Patriots outside of New England. I always have to explain I became a Sox fan back in 1967 and I have never been a Patriots fan. I don't dislike the team like so many do. Just not a fan.

 

 

Where in the Midwest?

 

I’m in Chicago, where being a Red Sox fan was very identifiable for Cubs fans. And there’s no such thing as White Sox fans.

 

But since I grew up in Massachusetts, I am a Pats’ fan. And you’re right about Patriots’ fans. That’s everywhere right now. If we landed a man on Mars, he’d be greeted by little green men sayin “Welcome person from Earth to our humble Martian home. Tell us of your travels and join us in hating the one you call Belicheck.”...

[Bellhorn04]

He spends a lot of the team's revenue on payroll - I have no problem ... I don't like him talking about limits since the limits are all artificial.

 

Artificial is kind of an interesting word.

 

There's nothing legally or financially preventing him from having a $400 million payroll and paying $200 million in taxes or whatever it would be. So technically speaking, yes, there are no limits.

 

By the same token, each one of us here could spend ourselves into bankruptcy if we chose to.

[sk7326]

Artificial is kind of an interesting word.

 

There's nothing legally or financially preventing him from having a $400 million payroll and paying $200 million in taxes or whatever it would be. So technically speaking, yes, there are no limits.

 

By the same token, each one of us here could spend ourselves into bankruptcy if we chose to.

 

Yes - just pointing out that he (and Steinbrenner) are much further from the breakeven, let alone bankruptcy, level than they ever let on. These large market teams are very very profitable.

[notin]

So the only real rumors to glean from right now are that DD is talking bargain relievers and trying to trade a catcher.

 

Looking around the league, Oakland is one team that is a match on a catcher/reliever swap, as they have a good bullpen and Josh Phegley sits atop the catcher depth chart.

 

But who do you trade for? If I was the Oakland GM, I’d only be interested in Christian Vazquez. And the reliever I’d offer is Fernando Rodney. Rodney is roughly 300 years old and signed for one more season at $4.5mill with some inventive bonuses. Vazquez has about $20mill over the next 4 years, which means the AAV equals out but not the years. The incredibly underrated Yusmeiro Petit ($5.5mill for 1 year plus a buyout/option) might make more sense for Boston, despite his not ever being a closer. Hey, let Barnes close and let Petit just pitch, which he does very well.

 

Rodney, on the other hand, has a long history with Dombrowski.

 

Texas als needs a catcher, but I doubt any of the Sox trio can land Jose LeClerc. The best deal here might be a Blake Swihart/Matt Bush swap, in what might be a rare instance of a team being interested in Swihart. They have no one that makes sense in a Vazquez trade.

 

Bush still throws very hard, but has had his issues on and off the field (mostly off, and mostly in the past).

 

I do hate the idea of a Vazquez/Rodney swap (although a Swihart/Rodney swap would be more palatable), but it’s not a crazy notion. Hopefully if DDis looking for a Rodney reunion, he doesn’t deal Vazquez straight up.

 

Now Vazquez/Petit? I’d have to think about that....

[moonslav59]

So the only real rumors to glean from right now are that DD is talking bargain relievers and trying to trade a catcher.

 

Looking around the league, Oakland is one team that is a match on a catcher/reliever swap, as they have a good bullpen and Josh Phegley sits atop the catcher depth chart.

 

But who do you trade for? If I was the Oakland GM, I’d only be interested in Christian Vazquez. And the reliever I’d offer is Fernando Rodney. Rodney is roughly 300 years old and signed for one more season at $4.5mill with some inventive bonuses. Vazquez has about $20mill over the next 4 years, which means the AAV equals out but not the years. The incredibly underrated Yusmeiro Petit ($5.5mill for 1 year plus a buyout/option) might make more sense for Boston, despite his not ever being a closer. Hey, let Barnes close and let Petit just pitch, which he does very well.

 

Rodney, on the other hand, has a long history with Dombrowski.

 

Texas als needs a catcher, but I doubt any of the Sox trio can land Jose LeClerc. The best deal here might be a Blake Swihart/Matt Bush swap, in what might be a rare instance of a team being interested in Swihart. They have no one that makes sense in a Vazquez trade.

 

Bush still throws very hard, but has had his issues on and off the field (mostly off, and mostly in the past).

 

I do hate the idea of a Vazquez/Rodney swap (although a Swihart/Rodney swap would be more palatable), but it’s not a crazy notion. Hopefully if DDis looking for a Rodney reunion, he doesn’t deal Vazquez straight up.

 

Now Vazquez/Petit? I’d have to think about that....

 

What about Swihart & Johnson for Petit?

[notin]

What about Swihart & Johnson for Petit?

 

 

Billy Beane was all over collecting versatile players for a while. But the man is defending a Wild Card position here. Swihart isn’t an upgrade at catcher over Phegley and Johnson is a step down (several, actually) from Petit.

 

If you were Beane and/or Frost here, it has to be Vazquez...

[moonslav59]

Billy Beane was all over collecting versatile players for a while. But the man is defending a Wild Card position here. Swihart isn’t an upgrade at catcher over Phegley and Johnson is a step down (several, actually) from Petit.

 

If you were Beane and/or Frost here, it has to be Vazquez...

 

I just can't see us going through the whole season with Leon-Swihart.

 

I'd rather go light on the pen.

[notin]

I just can't see us going through the whole season with Leon-Swihart.

 

I'd rather go light on the pen.

 

There is very little there to get excited about. But if DD is trying to trade a catcher, which one will other teams most likely want to talk about?

[OH FOY]

Sox Vazquez 51-29 W-L

Leon 63-26 W-L

 

I bet Sale and Price will have some say about the Catchers.

[OH FOY]

Sale by Catcher Vazquez 53.0 innings 3.40 ERA.

Leon, 319 innings, 242 innings, 2.42 ERA

 

Price 194 innings 2.83 ERA with Leon

262 innings 4.32 ERA with Vaxquez