The Pen

[Bellhorn04]

Now bargain guys are going. I cannot imagine for the life of me that Dd thinks this pen is good enough. Yeah, the pen was great in the playoffs, but you also had Sale, ERod and Eovaldi throw innings out of the pen. That ain’t happening over 162. This brings me back to the days when Andy Pettitte was used on his throw day because our pen minus Mo was atrocious.

 

We'll all be shocked if DD does nothing further about the pen, but I seriously doubt it's the case.

[cp176]

Let's have a little trust in Dave.

 

I think that most people do. The real minority voices in New England will find fault with what ever gets done. If he signs a Kimbrel let's say well it was too much money and he could have gotten the same result cheaper. If he does nothing more than he has done, he is wasting a potential winning season to some. Signing a couple of late season and World Series heroes to some represented too much risk and too much money. The complaining voices tend to be very loud for sure but that is somewhat typical. He might get a few luke warm pats on the back from the resident know it alls but it is a pretty tough gig to come out of here a winner.

[jacksonianmarch]

I think this situation is different. Most Sox fans realize the band cannot stay together beyond this season, so optimizing 2019 is a big focus.

[Bellhorn04]

I think this situation is different. Most Sox fans realize the band cannot stay together beyond this season, so optimizing 2019 is a big focus.

 

Plus they've already invested a vast amount of payroll in this team, so what's a little more.

[notin]

Plus they've already invested a vast amount of payroll in this team, so what's a little more.

 

 

I’d be ok with that.

 

But as far as I can tell, no one has said “don’t go over the highest limit!!” It appears to be the choice of Dombrowski alone. Which makes me wonder what’s at stake here. If Henry doesn’t mind the extra expenditures (as long as the bottom line goes up equally), then is DD’s primary concern losing 10 spots of draft position? Really?

[notin]

I think that most people do. The real minority voices in New England will find fault with what ever gets done. If he signs a Kimbrel let's say well it was too much money and he could have gotten the same result cheaper. If he does nothing more than he has done, he is wasting a potential winning season to some. Signing a couple of late season and World Series heroes to some represented too much risk and too much money. The complaining voices tend to be very loud for sure but that is somewhat typical. He might get a few luke warm pats on the back from the resident know it alls but it is a pretty tough gig to come out of here a winner.

 

 

Actually some of his loudest complaints have come from fans who were his staunchest supporters as recently as November...

[moonslav59]

The chances Pedroia retires early and walks away from the game (this saving the Sox roughly $14mill annually towards the tax limits) are about the same as the chances of my daughter’s guinea pigs wining the Nobel Prize for Chemistry this year...

 

Just have baseball writers choose the Nobel Prize this year, and it could happen!

[moonslav59]

Plus they've already invested a vast amount of payroll in this team, so what's a little more.

 

It's a lot, if the owner thinks he already way overspent the year before and is facing another max penalty tax and penalty in the next year.

 

It wouldn't bother me at all, if Henry has told DD not to max out this year and to plan to reset after this season. We got another ring, we have a great team to watch again this year, and we still have a good chance to win it all again.

 

Every team wants more, more, more. To be starting the season with just one clear weak area is usually a good thing.

[notin]

Just have baseball writers choose the Nobel Prize this year, and it could happen!

 

They also might put the fatter one in the Hall of Fame next to Harold Baines...

[OH FOY]

I'll keep an eye on Blown Leads, going into the 7th inning. Not 1 run leads, that always happen. I'll be looking at a higher number, where you should very rarely lose or tie it up. 3 run leads. Edited January 25, 2019 by OH FOY!

[jacksonianmarch]

Well the pulling of Barnes and Brasier into their new roles will lead to more leads blown in the 6th and 7th. I’d also venture to guess that days Barnes and or Brasier are rested will be adventurous

[Bellhorn04]

I’d be ok with that.

 

But as far as I can tell, no one has said “don’t go over the highest limit!!” It appears to be the choice of Dombrowski alone.

 

You really think Henry has given Dave carte blanche to spend?

[Bellhorn04]

Well the pulling of Barnes and Brasier into their new roles will lead to more leads blown in the 6th and 7th. I’d also venture to guess that days Barnes and or Brasier are rested will be adventurous

 

I know you're licking your chops, but you really need to wait until this all shakes out.

[FredLynn]

I know you're licking your chops, but you really need to wait until this all shakes out.

 

Jacko is definitely licking his chops waiting for the Yankees to finally finish ahead of the Red Sox-just as he was last year at the beginning of the season when he gloated that the Yankees were odds on favorites to win the ALE.

Maybe the Yankees will win.....but first they have to play the games. Just like last year, and I kinda like the way last year turned out.

[OH FOY]

"Saves" is a stupid word. It refers to old Days of Baseball. Where a Starter, would go 8 innings, and a Closer would be used for 1 inning. Todays game has changed so much, because of analytics. 100 Pitch Count started it.

Todays game a Save starts as soon as the Starter leaves a game with a lead, usually going into the 7th, and so on.

Todays game usually have 3 guys saving a game. Not 1, anymore.

Edited January 25, 2019 by OH FOY!

[dgalehouse]

Plus they've already invested a vast amount of payroll in this team, so what's a little more.

 

Exactly. When you have invested this much , why draw the line here and jeopardize your chances for a championship ?

[dgalehouse]

I think that most people do. The real minority voices in New England will find fault with what ever gets done. If he signs a Kimbrel let's say well it was too much money and he could have gotten the same result cheaper. If he does nothing more than he has done, he is wasting a potential winning season to some. Signing a couple of late season and World Series heroes to some represented too much risk and too much money. The complaining voices tend to be very loud for sure but that is somewhat typical. He might get a few luke warm pats on the back from the resident know it alls but it is a pretty tough gig to come out of here a winner.

 

Yes , it can be a thankless job. And Dave has done very , very well . But the fact is that he has done next to nothing about the bullpen this off season . That is a legitimate concern for many of us .

[notin]

You really think Henry has given Dave carte blanche to spend?

 

 

I can only go by the quotes in the press.

 

You yourself have said Henry shouldn’t mind paying the tax if it leads to making more money.

 

And if you didn’t say that, you should have...

[notin]

"Saves" is a stupid word. It refers to old Days of Baseball. Where a Starter, would go 8 innings, and a Closer would be used for 1 inning. Todays game has changed so much, because of analytics. 100 Pitch Count started it.

Todays game a Save starts as soon as the Starter leaves a game with a lead, usually going into the 7th, and so on.

Todays game usually have 3 guys saving a game. Not 1, anymore.

 

 

Hence the “hold” statistic, which is basically a save before the final inning.

 

In fact, there is no “blown hold” stat. If you surrender the lead in a hold situation, you get credited with a blown save...

[Bellhorn04]

I can only go by the quotes in the press.

 

You yourself have said Henry shouldn’t mind paying the tax if it leads to making more money.

 

And if you didn’t say that, you should have...

 

No matter what the quotes say, I'm reasonably sure Henry is the guy setting the limits. I really don't think Dave has authority to sign Machado and Kimbrel.

Edited January 25, 2019 by Bellhorn04

[dgalehouse]

The problem with some of the positions you mention as possible targets of cutting back on to create budget space for the pen is that there is no market for Moreland and his contract. I doubt we look to trade Pearce, and I think we'd have to wait anyways.

 

We won't save anything by trading Swihart or Leon, so trading Vaz is the only sacrifice that might create some budget space for the pen. IMO, trading Vaz would make some of our pitchers worse, if they had to pitch to Swihart, so we lose at more than just the catcher position.

 

Utility IF'er is not something many teams are willing to pay the money Nunez is making. That means Holt would be traded.

 

Trading one of our 5 starters, so we can afford a closer would just create a bigger hole, IMO. Price is paid too much, ERod would not free up enough money for Kimbrel. That leaves Porcello or Sale.

 

Who do you trade to create the $14-16M space needed for Kimbrel?

 

Name names.

 

Sale

 

Porcello

 

Vaz

 

Holt

 

A combination?

 

As I said before , I am not in favor of a trade that would weaken another area to bolster the bullpen. Spend what it takes to do it . If you insist, we do have two first basemen, three catchers and two utility infielders . We could do something there without too much pain. As for Porcello, he has been a reliable work horse. Would prefer to keep him. However , he is entering the last year of his contract and there is some question about whether he will be re signed . He is a solid guy , but his career ERA is 4.26 . Okay , but not great . Trading him , while not preferable, should not be out of the question either.

[dgalehouse]

No matter what the quotes say, I'm reasonable sure Henry is the guy setting the limits. I really don't think Dave has authority to sign Machado and Kimbrel.

 

Dombrowski is certainly not about to throw John Henry under the bus for closing the check book. That would not be wise .

[notin]

No matter what the quotes say, I'm reasonably sure Henry is the guy setting the limits. I really don't think Dave has authority to sign Machado and Kimbrel.

 

 

But I hope he has a sky high limit for one year deals...

[Jack Flap]

Barring something very surprising at this point, Red Sox management seems to have chosen a very strange time to draw a line in the sand on spending, and I have a hard time believing this is something Dombrowski would decide to self-impose absent some directive from ownership to do so. Again, given the strength of the rest of the roster and the uncertainty ahead in 2020-21, it makes all the sense in the world to push all your chips to the middle now for another shot at a championship, and I can't imagine this is lost on Dombrowski or that the threat of losing ten spots in the draft is something that would seriously deter him.

[Jack Flap]

But I hope he has a sky high limit for one year deals...

 

This would be my hope as well, but he's passed on some already that seemed tempting (Allen, Brach). Maybe something is cooking with Kimbrel, or maybe he's just a huge Shawn Kelley fan...we'll see.

[jacksonianmarch]

Barring something very surprising at this point, Red Sox management seems to have chosen a very strange time to draw a line in the sand on spending, and I have a hard time believing this is something Dombrowski would decide to self-impose absent some directive from ownership to do so. Again, given the strength of the rest of the roster and the uncertainty ahead in 2020-21, it makes all the sense in the world to push all your chips to the middle now for another shot at a championship, and I can't imagine this is lost on Dombrowski or that the threat of losing ten spots in the draft is something that would seriously deter him.

 

Two years in a row may be a bit much, but then why splurge on Pearce or Eovaldi? Pearce is a "nice to have". Guys like him are usually available at the deadline for cheap. RH platoon bat who plays COF and 1b, there will be 3 of them moved at the deadline this year at a minimum. Eovaldi is a good get if he stays healthy, but based on your squad, he's at best your #4 and more likely your #5. To spend $17 mil on him sounds like a little too much, IMO. You could have kept Kelly and signed Ottavino for that amount.

[notin]

This would be my hope as well, but he's passed on some already that seemed tempting (Allen, Brach). Maybe something is cooking with Kimbrel, or maybe he's just a huge Shawn Kelley fan...we'll see.

 

 

Brach and Strickland are both good pitchers, but there are other equal and potentially better options still available. And given his tendencies to acquire his former Tiger players, Justin Wilson and Alex Wilson wouldn’t surprise me. And he’s been linked to Kelley.

 

Not to mention, Greg Holland, who actually pitched very well in Washington last year after his horrible start in St. Louis, doesn’t seem to be linked to any teams so far this off-season...

[notin]

Dombrowski is certainly not about to throw John Henry under the bus for closing the check book. That would not be wise .

 

 

If Dombrowski stated the Sox goal is to stay under the highest limit, I wouldn’t consider that throwing Henry under the nus. It is the highest limit, after all. And we still have the highest payroll.

 

If anything, it would really make me question his own moves earlier this off-season even more, however...

[harmony]

Brach and Strickland are both good pitchers, but there are other equal and potentially better options still available. And given his tendencies to acquire his former Tiger players, Justin Wilson and Alex Wilson wouldn’t surprise me. And he’s been linked to Kelley.

 

Not to mention, Greg Holland, who actually pitched very well in Washington last year after his horrible start in St. Louis, doesn’t seem to be linked to any teams so far this off-season...

Justin Wilson reportedly is off the board:

 

 

... as is fellow lefty Oliver Perez:

 

[jacksonianmarch]

I thought Strickland would have been a good buy low candidate. At this point, it's clubhouse cancer Kelley or bust it seems