The Pen

[moonslav59]

What was not out of proportion was the epic collapse of that team in 2011. The pitching going into September was hanging by a thread and Theo failed to get any reinforcements. Tito also did nothing to prevent the team's precipitous nose dive. He needed to flip over a table in the clubhouse or something, but he remained Francoma -- which was a great demeanor for teams that are performing well, but not when a losing group mentality is tarting to take hold. They didn't need to do a lot, but they did nothing. Theo got caught with his pants down so much that he was looking to make a trade for Capuano on the last weekend.

 

Very well said.

[cp176]

So my question to the people thinking that the drinking incidents as well as the fried chicken and beer crap what about the 2018 team? What have you heard? I'm not saying that professional athletes don't do everything that many otherwise normal people might do but until we hear something to the contrary, I'm going to believe that once this past year's roster was settled, it looked to me like there wasn't a whole lot else other than video games and baseball going on. Personally I like that very much. I actually kind of like it when the teams I pull for are held to a higher standard.

[a700hitter]

So my question to the people thinking that the drinking incidents as well as the fried chicken and beer crap what about the 2018 team? What have you heard? I'm not saying that professional athletes don't do everything that many otherwise normal people might do but until we hear something to the contrary, I'm going to believe that once this past year's roster was settled, it looked to me like there wasn't a whole lot else other than video games and baseball going on. Personally I like that very much. I actually kind of like it when the teams I pull for are held to a higher standard.

I think the 2018 team was a talented group that pushed each other to be better every day. Complacency had no chance to take hold. There were a few player-coaches on this squad. JD was always helping the hitters and leading by example. Price was a mentor for the staff. Also, there were a number of emotional leaders -- sparkplugs -- Betts, Sale, Nunez and Holt. Complacency could not enter that clubhouse. And if they didn't bludgeon you with HRs, they beat you by getting on base by any means necessary. If they had trouble getting on base, they made things happen when they got on base and beat you running the bases. If the offense sputtered, the starting pitching stepped up. When the starting pitching sputtered, the bullpen stepped up. When the pitchers needed to be picked up, the gloves did their work making web gem plays. It was a damn near perfect machine.

[S5Dewey]

So my question to the people thinking that the drinking incidents as well as the fried chicken and beer crap what about the 2018 team? What have you heard? I'm not saying that professional athletes don't do everything that many otherwise normal people might do but until we hear something to the contrary, I'm going to believe that once this past year's roster was settled, it looked to me like there wasn't a whole lot else other than video games and baseball going on. Personally I like that very much. I actually kind of like it when the teams I pull for are held to a higher standard.

 

Color me old-fashioned if you must but I'm of the opinion that when players are getting played millions of dollars to play baseball (to be playing BASEBALL, for God's sake!) that their focus should be on baseball and not be thinking about whether they should order "regular" or "extra crispy".

 

As to the 2011 collapse, I'll always believe that it's because Tito lost the clubhouse. The chicken and beer was more of a symbol of the problem than being the problem itself. The clubhouse broke into two factions, the pro-Tito faction and the anti-Tito faction, mostly because a certain pitcher struggled and had to blame someone other than himself so he went after Tito. This "certain pitcher" was seen as a team leader and when many of the Sox players followed him the fracture occurred. The rest of the season is history.

 

Then in the off season the FO decided to bring in a disciplinarian named Bobby Valentine in 2012 to bring the clubhouse back together again - and we all know how that worked out.

 

It's JMO and as I like to say, What do I know? I have no inside information from the clubhouse and it's just my opinion based on my personal experience and what I saw and heard.

 

That's my opinion. I welcome yours. - *Fred Nutter

 

Nutter is a local broadcaster who used to editorialize on the local news shows & always finished his segment with those words.

[notin]

Oh. Okay . If AJ Pierzynski says so , I can't possibly disagree . It is fine to downplay the whole thing . But I still say ; the Sox blew the pennant and Tito blew his job.

 

 

Reportedly they lost the team over some forced makeup games on a scheduled off day. It had nothing to do with Tito with the exception of his ability to reign the team back in...

[Bellhorn04]

The Red Sox have reportedly been in contact with Shawn Kelley. So at least we can surmise they haven't sworn off signing any relievers altogether.

[TylerD]

The Red Sox have reportedly been in contact with Shawn Kelley. So at least we can surmise they haven't sworn off signing any relievers altogether.

Which is a good. If we can get a player or two for a decent price I’m not against it.

[cp176]

I think the 2018 team was a talented group that pushed each other to be better every day. Complacency had no chance to take hold. There were a few player-coaches on this squad. JD was always helping the hitters and leading by example. Price was a mentor for the staff. Also, there were a number of emotional leaders -- sparkplugs -- Betts, Sale, Nunez and Holt. Complacency could not enter that clubhouse. And if they didn't bludgeon you with HRs, they beat you by getting on base by any means necessary. If they had trouble getting on base, they made things happen when they got on base and beat you running the bases. If the offense sputtered, the starting pitching stepped up. When the starting pitching sputtered, the bullpen stepped up. When the pitchers needed to be picked up, the gloves did their work making web gem plays. It was a damn near perfect machine.

 

Absolutely!!!

[notin]

The Red Sox have reportedly been in contact with Shawn Kelley. So at least we can surmise they haven't sworn off signing any relievers altogether.

 

 

My tenth best option on page 16 of this thread...

[dgalehouse]

Shawn Kelley ? Really?

[moonslav59]

Shawn Kelley ? Really?

 

Maybe SK and a trade.

[notin]

Shawn Kelley ? Really?

 

Shawn Kelley is a good pitcher. Not my top choice from the $5mill bin, but there are plenty of worse options available...

[moonslav59]

WHIP

 

Shawn Kelley

1.09 2015 (51 IP)

0.89 2016 (58 IP)

1.54 2017 (26 IP)

0.90 2018 (49 IP)

 

Joe Kelly

1.44 2015 (134 IP as SP'er)

1.70 2016 (40 IP)

1.19 2017 (58 IP)

1.36 2018 (66 IP)

 

Cody Allen

1.17 2015 (69 IP)

1.00 2016 (68 IP)

1.16 2017 (67 IP)

1.36 2018 (67 IP)

 

 

[moonslav59]

124 RP'ers with 160+ IP since 2015

 

WHIP Leaders

0.80 Jansen

0.87 Miller

0.92 Osuna

0.94 Devenski

0.94 Kimbrel

0.99 Neshek

1.00 Harris

1.01 Davis

1.02 Diaz

1.02 Strop

1.04 Robertson

1.04 Shawn Kelley

1.05 Chapman

1.05 O'Day

 

K-BB%

33 Jansen

32 Miller

31 Kimbrel

31 Diaz

29 Chapman

29 Betances

25 Yates

24 Knebel

24 Robertson

24 Osuna

24 Giles

24 O'Day

23 Shawn Kelly

23 Hand

22 Devenski

22 C Allen

 

He ranks 12th and 13th in a couple pretty meaningful areas.

 

His 10.6 K/9 rate ranks 24th out of 124.

 

His downfall is the HR. He ranks 122nd out of 124 at 1.56.

 

Edited January 21, 2019 by moonslav59

[jacksonianmarch]

He’s a fine middle relief option. His propensity for the homer makes him a poor late inning option. I highly doubt he’s obtained for the $2-$3 mil being bandied about

[moonslav59]

He’s a fine middle relief option. His propensity for the homer makes him a poor late inning option. I highly doubt he’s obtained for the $2-$3 mil being bandied about

 

If we pay him $5M, we may send someone like ______ packing to save some salary.

 

$2.5M Leon (I hope not)

$1.8M Thornburg

 

 

 

[moonslav59]

I'm glad we brought Pearce back, but had we any faith in Chavis vs LHPs at 1B, we really could have probably used Pearce's $6.25M for the pen.

[Bellhorn04]

Shawn Kelley is a good pitcher. Not my top choice from the $5mill bin, but there are plenty of worse options available...

 

The $5 mill bin Too funny. That's exactly where we are.

[Kimmi]

The Sox blew the pennant . Tito blew his job . Proportion notwithstanding .

 

These types of things happen every year in every clubhouse. When things are going well, you typically don't hear a thing about them. Or if you do hear about them, they are portrayed as something like team chemistry or team identity. When things turn south, the media puts a whole different spin on it.

 

Does Tito carry some of the responsibility for the team's collapse? Of course he does. Did he deserve to be fired? No he did not. I am positive that had Tito returned the following year, the team would have likely made the playoffs.

[Kimmi]

And the 2004 team did hard liquor shots before games. If they won, it would have been seen as quaint.

 

Exactly sk.

[Kimmi]

The Red Sox have reportedly been in contact with Shawn Kelley. So at least we can surmise they haven't sworn off signing any relievers altogether.

 

I think we could have surmised that even without the Shawn Kelley report. Dombrowski is not sitting idly by.

[Kimmi]

The $5 mill bin Too funny. That's exactly where we are.

 

The $5 mil bin is a great place from which to get relievers.

 

Don't make that out to be a bad thing.

[jacksonianmarch]

If we pay him $5M, we may send someone like ______ packing to save some salary.

 

$2.5M Leon (I hope not)

$1.8M Thornburg

 

 

 

 

 

That is a possibility. The arb contracts aren't guaranteed and can be released with only a 10% commitment in ST.

[TylerD]

I'm glad we brought Pearce back, but had we any faith in Chavis vs LHPs at 1B, we really could have probably used Pearce's $6.25M for the pen.

 

Ya it is what it is. Pearce is a very good player. I still like the signing. I would have been fine either way. Still relief pitchers out there the Sox can get...... maybe. If we need one. Which I’m not entirely sure we do.

[moonslav59]

Ya it is what it is. Pearce is a very good player. I still like the signing. I would have been fine either way. Still relief pitchers out there the Sox can get...... maybe. If we need one. Which I’m not entirely sure we do.

 

Unless we are allowed to go $40M over (or more), we have about $4M to spend, according to cots.

[notin]

Unless we are allowed to go $40M over (or more), we have about $4M to spend, according to cots.

 

 

Every source everywhere seems to say the Sox are not concerned with the luxury tax. So the decision to not exceed the highest threshold appears to rest solely with Dombrowski...

[moonslav59]

Every source everywhere seems to say the Sox are not concerned with the luxury tax. So the decision to not exceed the highest threshold appears to rest solely with Dombrowski...

 

Unless Henry explicitly said, "Don't go over," or "Don't go over by more than $3M."

 

If the plan is not to go over, our options are severely limited.

- We can try to trade for a low-cost relief pitcher by further emptying our farm.

- We can trade a starter or two like Johnson, Velazquez and add Swihart to try to get a low-cost RP'er.

- We can trade away some salary and open a gap somewhere else to fill the pen gap. (Nunez, Moreland, Leon, Thornburg or UGH! Porcello)

- We can wait until mid season and trade for a pro-rated contract or two or get the team to pitch in some contract money by sweetening the return.

 

If the plan is to go over by a little bit only, then we have a few more options.

- We can do an above option.

- We can sign a guy like Shawn Kelley for $4-5M x 1.

- We can do both.

 

 

[Bellhorn04]

Every source everywhere seems to say the Sox are not concerned with the luxury tax. So the decision to not exceed the highest threshold appears to rest solely with Dombrowski...

 

Here's what Henry said: 'We do have constraints. It's not necessarily the luxury tax that is your constraint. It's how much money you're willing to lose.'

 

There's a limit somewhere. Let's say it's 5 million above the highest threshold this year. That would still only leave DD about $10 mill left to play with.

[harmony]

From Monday's chat with MLB Trade Rumors owner Tim Dierkes:

FaithlessValor

1:58 Which of the remaining bullpen options do you see as the best fits for Boston?

 

Tim Dierkes

1:59 The present group seems pretty right-handed. Ollie Perez time? Jake Diekman, Tony Sipp, and Justin Wilson could fit the bill. Kimbrel aside, most top guys are off the board.

Will

2:02 What do you think happens with Kimbrel? Is it down to the Red Sox, Phillies, and Braves?

 

Tim Dierkes

2:02 The Red Sox just don't seem like they want to pay up for Kimbrel. If he comes down to three-year deal territory, Wade Davis money, then I think the market opens up and a good half-dozen teams should be involved.

https://www.jotcast.com/chat/live-chat-with-tim-dierkes-4390.html

Edited January 21, 2019 by harmony

[Slasher9]

What do you think of my new signature line?

 

i'm a big fan of it.