2019 Starting Pitching thread

[fxkatt]

I agree and I also feel that one of the reasons that he pitched so well in the series was that he knew that if he screwed up he had Sale, Price, Porcello. Eovaldi, and E-Rod out there to pick him up.

 

Interesting. I don't know what it was, but he surely wasn't thinking of Kimbrel having his back (maybe that's why he bore down)

 

If he comes back, it would mean two things to me: 1) we're getting at least something out of that wasteful trade with St. Louis. 2) and that now we need to focus on a lefty reliever.

[moonslav59]

Interesting. I don't know what it was, but he surely wasn't thinking of Kimbrel having his back (maybe that's why he bore down)

 

If he comes back, it would mean two things to me: 1) we're getting at least something out of that wasteful trade with St. Louis. 2) and that now we need to focus on a lefty reliever.

 

I wouldn't count anything Kelly gives us going forward as part of the trade. Signing him is a separate acquisition.

[fxkatt]

Getting back to starting pitching: Is the Porcello, Bradley, Bogaerts being offered discussed somewhere??

 

PS I agree that Kelly wd no longer be part of the Cardinal deal.

[moonslav59]

Getting back to starting pitching: Is the Porcello, Bradley, Bogaerts being offered discussed somewhere??

 

PS I agree that Kelly wd no longer be part of the Cardinal deal.

 

I can't see us trading a valuable asset this winter. We are poised to be the favorites next year. Our biggest need is the pen, and you don't trade Bogey, Porcello or JBJ for a pen arm.

[notin]

I can't see us trading a valuable asset this winter. We are poised to be the favorites next year. Our biggest need is the pen, and you don't trade Bogey, Porcello or JBJ for a pen arm.

 

It’s more about DD’s willingness to listen. These players are not being marketed so much as just no longer untouchable...

[moonslav59]

It’s more about DD’s willingness to listen. These players are not being marketed so much as just no longer untouchable...

 

Don't you have to have a need in mind to even want to listen to offers?

 

Would he trade one of these three for a RP'er and a top prospect?

 

That's the only type of trade that has any remote sense of logic, but why look to build up the farm, when the window still has one year to go?

 

Just trade Swihart, Chavis and Shawaryn or Houck for a decent RP'er.

 

Maybe we are trying to stay under the $40M line. I have us about $4-5M under right now, so that's not enough to get a top RP'er through free agency, unless we trade someone making a lot of money.

 

I'm thinking trying to trade Moreland or Nunez to free up budget space makes more sense, but both would create new issues.

[fxkatt]

It’s more about DD’s willingness to listen. These players are not being marketed so much as just no longer untouchable...

 

It sounds like slightly more than that, but this might be the press "breaking story" thing.

 

I see Scott has been picked up... one more reason to sign a lefty.

[moonslav59]

It sounds like slightly more than that, but this might be the press "breaking story" thing.

 

I see Scott has been picked up... one more reason to sign a lefty.

 

Our righty pen guys do very well vs LHPs. I'm not sure it is such an urgent need area.

[kenmeister]

Our righty pen guys do very well vs LHPs. I'm not sure it is such an urgent need area.

 

Maybe Johnson solves the lefty in the pen issue anyway?

[Nick]

Sale (1), Price (4), Eovaldi (4), Porcello (1), E Rod (3) > Severino (5), Paxton (3), Happ (3?), Tanaka (2), CC (1)? Edited December 12, 2018 by Nick

[a700hitter]

Sale, Price, Eovaldi, Porcello, E Rod > Severino, Paxton, Happ, Tanaka, CC?

Will opposing batters start getting wise and start bunting on CC? He didn't have a single putout at first-base last year. He is completely incapable of fielding his position. It is time for the hitters to retire him.

[Nick]

Will opposing batters start getting wise and start bunting on CC? He didn't have a single putout at first-base last year. He is completely incapable of fielding his position. It is time for the hitters to retire him.

 

I love that idea. Especially against a Yankee. Didn't he bitch against Nunez last year?

[a700hitter]

I love that idea. Especially against a Yankee. Didn't he bitch against Nunez last year?

He went ballistic over Nunez bunting. That overreaction should have clued the league in that he is completely incapable of fielding his position. Alas, baseball players and coaches aren't very smart, but sooner or later they will catch on.

[Hitch]

Interesting. I don't know what it was, but he surely wasn't thinking of Kimbrel having his back (maybe that's why he bore down)

 

If he comes back, it would mean two things to me: 1) we're getting at least something out of that wasteful trade with St. Louis. 2) and that now we need to focus on a lefty reliever.

 

We did get something out of that trade. He helped us win a WS.

[Bellhorn04]

He went ballistic over Nunez bunting. That overreaction should have clued the league in that he is completely incapable of fielding his position. Alas, baseball players and coaches aren't very smart, but sooner or later they will catch on.

 

What you're saying makes perfect sense, but there seems to be some sort of unwritten code of honor in play here (with most players anyway). It was often asked why the Yankees didn't bunt on Schilling in the bloody sock game.

[Spudboy]

What you're saying makes perfect sense, but there seems to be some sort of unwritten code of honor in play here (with most players anyway). It was often asked why the Yankees didn't bunt on Schilling in the bloody sock game.

 

I was just about to post the idea about an unwritten rule. It has to be something like that otherwise all teams would be laying down bunts on his fat and immobile ass.

[Kimmi]

Sale (1), Price (4), Eovaldi (4), Porcello (1), E Rod (3) > Severino (5), Paxton (3), Happ (3?), Tanaka (2), CC (1)?

 

Yes.

[Kimmi]

He went ballistic over Nunez bunting. That overreaction should have clued the league in that he is completely incapable of fielding his position. Alas, baseball players and coaches aren't very smart, but sooner or later they will catch on.

 

After seeing CC's reaction, I would have bunted against him whenever it made sense to do so.

[moonslav59]

Maybe Johnson solves the lefty in the pen issue anyway?

 

Hmmmmm..... maybe

 

OPS against 2018/Career vs LHBs

 

.429 Poyner

.551/.751 Hembree

.643/.753 Barnes

.647/.709 Brasier

.665/.615 Johnson

.670/.748 Workman

 

Thornburg career:

.556 vs LHBs

.760 vs RHBs'

 

Stunning reverse splits.

[Dojji]

What you're saying makes perfect sense, but there seems to be some sort of unwritten code of honor in play here (with most players anyway). It was often asked why the Yankees didn't bunt on Schilling in the bloody sock game.

 

The Schilling thing is a little different. Bunting on Schilling as an offensive strategy would have been exploiting a man's injury, and might have been seen as trying to deliberately exacerbate his injury or even end his career, which would be terrible sportsmanship and a can of worms very few players would deliberately open.

 

That's different from bunting on an immobile pudgemuffin. An injury is one thing, but if CC doesn't want to be embarrassed by his lack of fitness there's at least one obvious solution he can employ over time.

 

Not to mention -- the Big Sexy can still get off the mound and field his position and he's several years older than CC. At a certain point if a pitcher doesn't want to field he's just lazy, and should be exploited.

 

For the record I really respect the fact that the 2004 Yankees wanted to beat the Red Sox, rather than injure them. I think it says something good about them as people that they wouldn't stoop that low.

Edited December 13, 2018 by Dojji

[Larry Cook]

Hmmmmm..... maybe

 

OPS against 2018/Career vs LHBs

 

.429 Poyner

.551/.751 Hembree

.643/.753 Barnes

.647/.709 Brasier

.665/.615 Johnson

.670/.748 Workman

 

Thornburg career:

.556 vs LHBs

.760 vs RHBs'

 

Stunning reverse splits.

 

Thornburg should have this offseason to work out instead of rehab. Theoretically, he should pitch much better in year two because of this.

 

The question is, can he get close to the pitcher he was in Milwaukee this year?

[jacksonianmarch]

He was dominant for one season in Milwaukee and it happened to be when he had a velocity spike. He’s back down to the velocity when he was bad and he’s been bad. He needs a near 2 mph jump to be that guy again

[moonslav59]

He was dominant for one season in Milwaukee and it happened to be when he had a velocity spike. He’s back down to the velocity when he was bad and he’s been bad. He needs a near 2 mph jump to be that guy again

 

He was pretty darn good in 2 of the previous 3 seasons before that dominant one:

 

2013: 2.03 ERA/1.18 WHIP

2015: 3.67 ERA/1.25 WHIP

 

2016: 2.15/0.94

 

No doubt, his velocity spiked in 2016, but he did show he could pitch okay without it.

 

My point was about us maybe not needing a lefty specialist out of the pen. Here is Thornburg's splits:

 

Year vs LHBs/ vs RHBs

2013: .479/.684

2014: .458/.808

2015: .741/.709

2016: .413/.635

2018: .800/.972

 

3 years under .460 vs LHBs shows some promise.

 

I understand that with Tyler, nothing is for certain.

 

[jacksonianmarch]

In 2015, his FIP was over 5 and his WAR was negative

[moonslav59]

In 2015, his FIP was over 5 and his WAR was negative

 

I didn't realize this.

 

I guess he wasn't as good as I remembered him to be prior to 2016.

[Emp9]

For the life of me I can’t understand why the Mets are so hellbent on trading Syndergaard. But we can only go by the rumors and that is the rumor. Would a package of ERod, Bogey, Swihart, Chavis work? Probably not. Aside from adding another prospect to it that's all I got.

[kenmeister]

For the life of me I can’t understand why the Mets are so hellbent on trading Syndergaard. But we can only go by the rumors and that is the rumor. Would a package of ERod, Bogey, Swihart, Chavis work? Probably not. Aside from adding another prospect to it that's all I got.

 

I wouldn't want to make that trade. E-Rod and Syndergaard look very similar to me, accounting for AL/NL differences.

[notin]

For the life of me I can’t understand why the Mets are so hellbent on trading Syndergaard. But we can only go by the rumors and that is the rumor. Would a package of ERod, Bogey, Swihart, Chavis work? Probably not. Aside from adding another prospect to it that's all I got.

 

I don’t think the Mets are hellbent on trading Syndergaard. In fact, it looks like their refusal to part with Syndergaard was the big hold up in that three-team Realmuto trade...

[notin]

I wouldn't want to make that trade. E-Rod and Syndergaard look very similar to me, accounting for AL/NL differences.

 

Syndergaard is typically worth about 5 fWAR per season. ERod is usually worth closer to 2.5 fWAR. And even going beyond advanced metrics, Syndergaard is much, much better...

[Emp9]

I don’t think the Mets are hellbent on trading Syndergaard. In fact, it looks like their refusal to part with Syndergaard was the big hold up in that three-team Realmuto trade...

 

Well, yeah that trade looked like total s*** for them. Why announce he’s on the block to begin with?