Sox sign Eovaldi

[notin]

A bunch of those guys are already in the upper minors. In fact some have MLB experience. Adams, German, Loasagia for three. Yet still not a top 5 system...

[Spudboy]

I'm curious if most people here still have an expectation of Pedroia coming back and being productive? I thought he was on the verge of retirement after last season.

 

I may be the only member on Talksox that believes Pedroia is done other than possibly DR Jacko.

 

He and the Sox can make all the noise they want about how good he feels and how much he wants to play.

 

His micofracture surgery was a last ditch effort to save his knee. Then he had more surgery late this season.

 

I hope Holt and Nunez remain healthy for 2019.

 

Of course DD can always swing a deal for a vet 2nd baseman again if needed.

[Spudboy]

I'm happy for Eovaldi getting paid. I was a big fan of trading for him and his playoff run was legendary. I didnt necessarily want 4 years, but whatever. Hopefully he pitches like he did last year.

 

I'm with you on this one.

 

I thought 3/39 - 3/42 would have done it.

 

I don't like 4 years but if he remains healthy, and there is a real IF about him, he could be a steal.

[FredLynn]

I may be the only member on Talksox that believes Pedroia is done other than possibly DR Jacko.

 

He and the Sox can make all the noise they want about how good he feels and how much he wants to play.

 

His micofracture surgery was a last ditch effort to save his knee. Then he had more surgery late this season.

 

I hope Holt and Nunez remain healthy for 2019.

 

Of course DD can always swing a deal for a vet 2nd baseman again if needed.

 

I have written many times here that it would be a miracle if Pedroia contributes in a meaningful way to any future Sox team. The kind of injury he had and the subsequent surgeries indicate that he will soon develop arthritis in the joint if he hasn't already. He might be able to play some, but eventually the pathology in his knee will rule. Sad ending for a great player.

[Spudboy]

I’m sorry I’ve been reading this forum for years and you do make very good points, but it seems like what you predict always comes out wrong. ��

 

This is one of the reasons Jacko is kept around!

 

j/k

[Fisk]

This is one of the reasons Jacko is kept around!

 

j/k

 

Lol

[jacksonianmarch]

A bunch of those guys are already in the upper minors. In fact some have MLB experience. Adams, German, Loasagia for three. Yet still not a top 5 system...

 

Loaisiga and Abreu are the only top 100 guys on that above list, though. Acevedo hasn’t been healthy. Adams has a velo drop which didn’t recover til August. German wasn’t on my list as he’s spent the majority of 2018 in the majors. Frank German is the guy in the lower minors who just dominated and has power stuff

[moonslav59]

That might be what is seemed like, but his WHIP was sub 1, his K rate was over 13 and he converted 42 of 47 opportunities. That's a top notch closer right there. There were only 10 closers with 30 or more saves in 2018. Of those, only 3 had a higher save percentage. Of the 30 closers with 10 or more saves, only 2 had a better BAA than Kimbrel. Kimbrel may have been wilder than usual in 2018, but nobody could hit him. He had a ridiculous .146 BAA. Only Chapman and Doolittle's were lower

 

The number of saves argument is weak. What other teams went into the ninth leading, but not by too much, as much as the Sox did?

 

Maybe 5-6 teams?

 

Also, I can't see looking at Kimbrel's playoff saves as feathers in his cap.

[OH FOY]

Then he should give Bennintendi, a portion of his pay. That Catch might have saved the Post Season for the Sox. Good thing we didn't have JD in Left Field.

 

Edited December 8, 2018 by OH FOY!

[Kimmi]

Kimbrel caused me to have near cardiac arrest many times last season. I’m alright replacing him.

Barnes has become underrated ready to come into his own.

 

Kimbrel is no Koji! I like Kimbrel and wouldn't mind having him back if he didn't cost so much. It has always been my belief that we can get the same production at the closer's position for far less money than what Kimbrel will command.

[Kimmi]

Reliever WAR is absolutely awful in terms of determining worth. I know the stat heads (and I like to think I am one of them) consider every inning the same, but the ball player in me knows that not to be the case. Not every player can close. And closing is quite possibly one of the most important roles on a squad. How often can you take a lead after 8 and stamp it down into a W. Kimbrel was one of the best. Losing him is not going to be easy to replace, especially in a tough town like Boston. I find it interesting for fans of a team who have seen some pretty bad closers march through entirely dismiss the importance of the role. Your 4 titles had 4 different closers, 3 of which were established at the time of winning the title. The 4th was Uehara, who was an established reliever but ended up just becoming a god for one season during the luckiest season I have ever seen for a team. The moral of the story is, you can hope a guy steps up and closes well for you, but previous season established closers have been integral to championship runs for 3 of your 4 title teams

 

On the 25 man roster, the relievers are the easiest to replace. Hence, their replacement level is lower, which in turn doesn't give relievers much worth in terms of WAR.

 

I'm not saying that the closer's role is not important. I have never said that a bullpen is not important. The Red Sox will be fine Jacko. They are fine now, they will be finer after Dave adds a reliever or two.

[Fisk]

Kimbrel is no Koji! I like Kimbrel and wouldn't mind having him back if he didn't cost so much. It has always been my belief that we can get the same production at the closer's position for far less money than what Kimbrel will command.

 

Spot on

[Emp9]

It's certainly not inconceivable that he does become the closer at some point.

 

Best way I can put it, if the season started today he’d be my closer.

[cp176]

I may be the only member on Talksox that believes Pedroia is done other than possibly DR Jacko.

 

He and the Sox can make all the noise they want about how good he feels and how much he wants to play.

 

His micofracture surgery was a last ditch effort to save his knee. Then he had more surgery late this season.

 

I hope Holt and Nunez remain healthy for 2019.

 

Of course DD can always swing a deal for a vet 2nd baseman again if needed.

 

Oh I think that you get plenty of support with sentiment about Pedroia here. Regardless of all the "don't ever count Pedroia out" talk, I think that he probably tries to comeback but that it won't amount to much. Age coupled with injury have caught up with him I'm afraid. it would be a great story if he came back and did something that perhaps no one has ever done before - win a battle with Father Time - but I doubt he gives us much and what he gives us I don't think is going to better than anything Holt, Nunez, etc. can give us.

[Kimmi]

Best way I can put it, if the season started today he’d be my closer.

 

We need Eovaldi in the rotation. I wouldn't use him as a closer unless his health or his performance dictated it. If the season started today, I'd go with Barnes as the closer.

[Emp9]

We need Eovaldi in the rotation. I wouldn't use him as a closer unless his health or his performance dictated it. If the season started today, I'd go with Barnes as the closer.

 

Eh, not me. I’d plug in any one of MiLB SP’s for our #5 or get another SP via trade or FA. Plus it’s more cost effective innings wise to sign a SP than a high caliber Closer. Eovaldi can pitch alot of 8th innings as well given he’s just coming off being a starter. That, and moving him to closer could keep the wear and tear away for the next 4 yrs. To each his own, but that’s what I’d do if I were at the helm.

[Spudboy]

Oh I think that you get plenty of support with sentiment about Pedroia here. Regardless of all the "don't ever count Pedroia out" talk, I think that he probably tries to comeback but that it won't amount to much. Age coupled with injury have caught up with him I'm afraid. it would be a great story if he came back and did something that perhaps no one has ever done before - win a battle with Father Time - but I doubt he gives us much and what he gives us I don't think is going to better than anything Holt, Nunez, etc. can give us.

 

Exactly how I see it.

[oldtimer]

Exactly how I see it.

 

Me too and that's why the long term contract for him seemed inadvisable to me then and now. Sentiment sometimes gets in tthe way and most of us admire what Pedey has done for the Sox over the years, but the contract was for past performance and in a way looks like it could penalize the team going forward.

[notin]

Eh, not me. I’d plug in any one of MiLB SP’s for our #5 or get another SP via trade or FA. Plus it’s more cost effective innings wise to sign a SP than a high caliber Closer. Eovaldi can pitch alot of 8th innings as well given he’s just coming off being a starter. That, and moving him to closer could keep the wear and tear away for the next 4 yrs. To each his own, but that’s what I’d do if I were at the helm.

 

I hope Dombrowski didn’t just hand Eovaldi that insane contract to make him a closer. If that was the case, why not just sign a closer?

 

If the Sox are going to use any starter as a closer, it might wind up being Sale. Depends on the condition of his arm, of course. But the White Sox used him a closer before. In fact , in 2012 around the All Star break, sSale was having arm trounles and the Whie Sox immediately announced he was closing. (He pitched one non-save relief appearance and told them he felt fine and resumed starting.

 

But if Sale is having arm troubles, should the Sox durable him directly into free agency? Or try him in the reduced role?

[Kimmi]

Eh, not me. I’d plug in any one of MiLB SP’s for our #5 or get another SP via trade or FA. Plus it’s more cost effective innings wise to sign a SP than a high caliber Closer. Eovaldi can pitch alot of 8th innings as well given he’s just coming off being a starter. That, and moving him to closer could keep the wear and tear away for the next 4 yrs. To each his own, but that’s what I’d do if I were at the helm.

 

It is more cost effective to sign a SP than a closer, but then if you use that SP as a closer it becomes less cost effective.

 

IMO, we need Eovaldi in the rotation more than we need him in the BP. I did say unless health dictated otherwise. If Eovaldi is healthy enough to give us close to 200 innings, then he provides more value to us in the rotation. If the Sox deem it necessary to move him to the pen to preserve his health, then I'd be okay with that.

[Kimmi]

Me too and that's why the long term contract for him seemed inadvisable to me then and now. Sentiment sometimes gets in tthe way and most of us admire what Pedey has done for the Sox over the years, but the contract was for past performance and in a way looks like it could penalize the team going forward.

 

I was actually on board with Pedroia's contract. I felt like he was signing for a bit of a hometown discount and the contract was a win for both sides. But once again, we can see why long term contracts are not advisable.

[Emp9]

I hope Dombrowski didn’t just hand Eovaldi that insane contract to make him a closer. If that was the case, why not just sign a closer?

 

Well, salary-wise, I’m only going by the fact that Kimbrel turned down his QO of $17.9M. How much MORE would Kimbrel be asking for? Eovaldi making $17M x 4. I know Chapman & Jensen are up there salary-wise. Over $20m a year. Am I that off for arguments sake? I don’t think I am.

[Emp9]

It is more cost effective to sign a SP than a closer, but then if you use that SP as a closer it becomes less cost effective.

 

IMO, we need Eovaldi in the rotation more than we need him in the BP. I did say unless health dictated otherwise. If Eovaldi is healthy enough to give us close to 200 innings, then he provides more value to us in the rotation. If the Sox deem it necessary to move him to the pen to preserve his health, then I'd be okay with that.

 

I’d like Kelly back but other than that I personally think we should go after another SP.

[dgalehouse]

Eovaldi was signed to be in the starting rotation. His use in the bullpen was strictly a post season thing. All hands on deck , etc. Apart from that , the bullpen of today is more important than in the past. With pitch counts and such , starters don't go too deep . A good bullpen is vital to success. Knowing this , the relievers want to be paid accordingly. Having a championship team gets more expensive all the time .

[notin]

Well, salary-wise, I’m only going by the fact that Kimbrel turned down his QO of $17.9M. How much MORE would Kimbrel be asking for? Eovaldi making $17M x 4. I know Chapman & Jensen are up there salary-wise. Over $20m a year. Am I that off for arguments sake? I don’t think I am.

 

You don’t think the “one year” part of the QO was a factor?

 

Also neither Chapman nor Jansen make $20mill per year. I’m fact, neither make $17.9 per year. Eovaldi’s deal is more per year than Jansen ($16mill) and just lower than Chapman and Wade Davis....

Edited December 10, 2018 by notin

[cp176]

Eovaldi was signed to be in the starting rotation. His use in the bullpen was strictly a post season thing. All hands on deck , etc. Apart from that , the bullpen of today is more important than in the past. With pitch counts and such , starters don't go too deep . A good bullpen is vital to success. Knowing this , the relievers want to be paid accordingly. Having a championship team gets more expensive all the time .

 

The landscape looks like it is changing doesn't it. Any starting pitcher who can get you into the sixth looks like a good one to have these days. Eventually maybe even a pitcher's contract will in part be determined by the number of innings they pitch. The all hands on deck approach worked pretty well in the playoffs. Some of that way of looking at things might start to be incorporated into the regular season. Guys who can effectively pitch 2 + innings every 3 or 4 days might become as valuable if not more than the traditional starting pitcher.

[kenmeister]

I’d like Kelly back but other than that I personally think we should go after another SP.

 

Another starter; why?

[Emp9]

You don’t think the “one year” part of the QO was a factor?

 

Also neither Chapman nor Jansen make $20mill per year. I’m fact, neither make $17.9 per year. Eovaldi’s deal is more per year than Jansen ($16mill) and just lower than Chapman and Wade Davis....

 

Your right, it was Melancon that made $20m last year. Ok, still.. I have more pro’s for my argument. Eovaldi is younger than anyone mentioned (Jansen, Robertson, Chapman, Davis, Ottavino, even Kimbrel). You know he can pitch the 8th & 9th, unlike Kimbrel. He’s proved he can handle the pressure on the biggest of stages. If need be, we could stretch him back down to a starter’s role. The reverse is true too as well, like Kimmi mentioned, If we do sign a closer this off-season, I hope it’s only a 2 year contract (which is difficult to find but I’ll suspend disbelief) because I could see Eovaldi as an option to close at the tailend of his 4 years. Me, this offseason, if the price is the same betwen Ottavino/Robertson or Morton, I’d go with Morton (no QO’d either). Our budget as everyone knows is tighter than a dolphin’s *******. I’d rather get guys that can pitch more than one inning. I’m not implying to use them as all hands on deck (because that would be nearly impossible to do during the regular season), but if injuries occur (& they always do), we have more options. More insurance.

 

And to be clear, I don’t think the Sox will do this. It’s only what I would do at present.

[Bellhorn04]

Another starter; why?

 

Because he thinks Eovaldi is going to be the closer, I guess.

[cp176]

I’d like Kelly back but other than that I personally think we should go after another SP.

 

Maybe we could start just calling them pitchers.