Red Sox To Sign J.D. Martinez

[Hugh2]

Or even imagine if David was insistent on playing first base. He could probably play first about as well as Miggy Cabrera. I assume it was his issues with his feet that prevented him from ever thinking too hard about that.

 

Or imagine if he played LF? he'd be getting Giancarlo Stanton money. Or perhaps...Manny Ramirez money.

[moonslav59]

Or imagine if he played LF? he'd be getting Giancarlo Stanton money. Or perhaps...Manny Ramirez money.

 

No, he'd have been on the DL half his career.

[notin]

No, he'd have been on the DL half his career.

 

Which is not mutually exclusive from getting Manny Ramirez money. ...

[moonslav59]

Which is not mutually exclusive from getting Manny Ramirez money. ...

 

He wouldn't have Manny like numbers being on the DL half the time.

[notin]

He wouldn't have Manny like numbers being on the DL half the time.

 

Also very different from getting Manny money.

 

Carl Crawford made in excess of Manny money and spent plenty of time on the DL. ..

[Hugh2]

This is a thought exercise, I probably should have stated that with THAT particular point I'm assuming Ortiz could play LF. If he could play left field he'd probably have the body to play LF, and if he had the body to play LF he'd probably be less injury prone out there. In which case, Manny money would be an excellent comp as they played around the same time.

 

I think the main take away from this is if David Ortiz put up the same offensive numbers and was athletically gifted enough to sustain a job in the field even on an average level he could easily command the highest pay day in his day.

[moonslav59]

This is a thought exercise, I probably should have stated that with THAT particular point I'm assuming Ortiz could play LF. If he could play left field he'd probably have the body to play LF, and if he had the body to play LF he'd probably be less injury prone out there. ...

 

My head hurts.

[notin]

This is a thought exercise, I probably should have stated that with THAT particular point I'm assuming Ortiz could play LF. If he could play left field he'd probably have the body to play LF, and if he had the body to play LF he'd probably be less injury prone out there. In which case, Manny money would be an excellent comp as they played around the same time.

 

I think the main take away from this is if David Ortiz put up the same offensive numbers and was athletically gifted enough to sustain a job in the field even on an average level he could easily command the highest pay day in his day.

 

So essentially your argument boils down to - if Ortiz was an even better all around player, he could have made even more money. ..

[Spudboy]

My head hurts.

 

Major lulz.

[Hugh2]

So essentially your argument boils down to - if Ortiz was an even better all around player, he could have made even more money. ..

 

Yeah I guess it sounds pretty dumb when you put it like that. I blame myself for conveying my point rather poorly. JDM value is highly tied up in his bat, which holds a lot of value. Pretty obvious point so I guess you can call me captain obvious.

[Bellhorn04]

Yeah I guess it sounds pretty dumb when you put it like that. I blame myself for conveying my point rather poorly. JDM value is highly tied up in his bat, which holds a lot of value. Pretty obvious point so I guess you can call me captain obvious.

 

The point stands, though, that David Ortiz was relatively underpaid because he was a DH, and if he had been able to play first base, not necessarily even that well, he would have made a chunk more money.

[Hugh2]

The point stands, though, that David Ortiz was relatively underpaid because he was a DH, and if he had been able to play first base, not necessarily even that well, he would have made a chunk more money.

 

The good old days, when you could sign a 1.000 OPS, 40+ HR 130+RBI guy for 4 years and $52 million dollars.

[Bellhorn04]

The good old days, when you could sign a 1.000 OPS, 40+ HR 130+RBI guy for 4 years and $52 million dollars.

 

Yes, exactly, for pocket change.

[notin]

The good old days, when you could sign a 1.000 OPS, 40+ HR 130+RBI guy for 4 years and $52 million dollars.

 

And you didn't even need to give him a no-trade clause, because in those days a $13mill salary was a no-trade clause...

[Emp9]

Ortiz was passable at 1B. There were just better first basemen out there to be had. The Sox took advantage of getting the most from that (1B & DH) situation. Gotta remember, Ortiz was fighting for more playing time early in his career (& injuries in Min) with both the Twins & Sox. Twins had Mientkiewicz (‘nuff said), before that veterans. Sox had a bunch of 1B options, Jeremy Giambi, Millar, etc... From a team perspective it just made more sense to make him the primary DH. Did it hurt how much money he could ultimately make? Yes, definitely. But considering it took Pedro to get the Sox to sign him, and Pedro again to fight for him to get more playing time, I think Papi did ok money-wise compared to what his fate could’ve easily been (a 2003 retirement). I personally believe if Ortiz had a full career at 1B he’d been average or very slightly below average, but with his bat nobody would’ve cared.

 

So, no 1B for JDM? I would’ve liked to atleast see him get some reps there but that just me. I still can’t see him getting THAT much playing time in the OF. Again, from a team perspective... why?

[cp176]

It would be worth a read by anyone to go to the Red Sox homepage and read the article written by Ian Browne about Martinez's defense and how he sees himself. I like JD more and more and am anxious for him to get to show people that he really isn't that bad regardless of what the analytics say. He has a lot of pride knows that he will be primarily a dh here but wants to be in that outfield from time to time as well.

[mvp 78]

Ortiz was passable at 1B. There were just better first basemen out there to be had. The Sox took advantage of getting the most from that (1B & DH) situation. Gotta remember, Ortiz was fighting for more playing time early in his career (& injuries in Min) with both the Twins & Sox. Twins had Mientkiewicz (‘nuff said), before that veterans. Sox had a bunch of 1B options, Jeremy Giambi, Millar, etc... From a team perspective it just made more sense to make him the primary DH. Did it hurt how much money he could ultimately make? Yes, definitely. But considering it took Pedro to get the Sox to sign him, and Pedro again to fight for him to get more playing time, I think Papi did ok money-wise compared to what his fate could’ve easily been (a 2003 retirement). I personally believe if Ortiz had a full career at 1B he’d been average or very slightly below average, but with his bat nobody would’ve cared.

 

So, no 1B for JDM? I would’ve liked to atleast see him get some reps there but that just me. I still can’t see him getting THAT much playing time in the OF. Again, from a team perspective... why?

 

The 2003 offseason was interesting for sure for the Sox due to the crunch at DH/1B/3B. They had Millar, Giambi, Ortiz, Mueller and Hillenbrand all fighting for 3 spots. The opening day lineup was Millar 1B, Hillenbrand 3B and Giambi at DH. Hillenbrand had basically a fulltime role playing 50/50 1b/3b until he was moved in May. Ortiz was stuck in a timeshare with Giambi at DH until June.

[Kimmi]

It would be worth a read by anyone to go to the Red Sox homepage and read the article written by Ian Browne about Martinez's defense and how he sees himself. I like JD more and more and am anxious for him to get to show people that he really isn't that bad regardless of what the analytics say. He has a lot of pride knows that he will be primarily a dh here but wants to be in that outfield from time to time as well.

 

I read that yesterday also, and I give JD high marks for having the right attitude. That said, JD said that he blames the metrics for making him look like a bad defender. My response to that was, it's not the metrics that are making him look bad, it's his bad defense that are making him look bad.

 

Obviously, I'm pulling for the guy both offensively and defensively. It's possible that he can play with improved defense going forward. But to date, he has been very bad.

[Bellhorn04]

I read that yesterday also, and I give JD high marks for having the right attitude. That said, JD said that he blames the metrics for making him look like a bad defender. My response to that was, it's not the metrics that are making him look bad, it's his bad defense that are making him look bad.

 

Obviously, I'm pulling for the guy both offensively and defensively. It's possible that he can play with improved defense going forward. But to date, he has been very bad.

 

It was sort of interesting what he said about being wall-shy after getting injured running into the wall.

[Kimmi]

It was sort of interesting what he said about being wall-shy after getting injured running into the wall.

 

If I recall correctly, he more or less stated that he wasn't running hard after those balls, or that he was letting them go, or something along those lines. If that's the case, then he shouldn't be surprised that the defensive metrics don't like him.

 

If he's going to play the field a lot for us, I hope he's over his fear of the walls.

[moonslav59]

If I recall correctly, he more or less stated that he wasn't running hard after those balls, or that he was letting them go, or something along those lines. If that's the case, then he shouldn't be surprised that the defensive metrics don't like him.

 

If he's going to play the field a lot for us, I hope he's over his fear of the walls.

 

What wall?

[cp176]

If I recall correctly, he more or less stated that he wasn't running hard after those balls, or that he was letting them go, or something along those lines. If that's the case, then he shouldn't be surprised that the defensive metrics don't like him.

 

If he's going to play the field a lot for us, I hope he's over his fear of the walls.

 

I read the same thing you did and my interpretation was that he wasn't surprised at all about what the metrics said. His point though is certainly worth noting.

[Bellhorn04]

What wall?

 

Seriously, if JD has a case of being wall-shy, left field in Fenway might be an issue. Especially if he knows that Hanley and Swihart both got hurt out there only recently.

[moonslav59]

Seriously, if JD has a case of being wall-shy, left field in Fenway might be an issue. Especially if he knows that Hanley and Swihart both got hurt out there only recently.

 

He can just keep playing the Mike Greenwell defense: "I'll pick the ball up, when it stops rolling."

 

The Fenway wall is more about learning how the ball bounces off the wall rather than catching balls against it. He could just play a shallow LF and concede any catchable line drive off the lower wall.

[cp176]

Seriously, if JD has a case of being wall-shy, left field in Fenway might be an issue. Especially if he knows that Hanley and Swihart both got hurt out there only recently.

 

Does he still have the same injury concerns that kept him from being more aggressive going after wall balls? Doesn't sound to me like he does. I don't really think that suggesting that he is wall shy at this time is fair. I'm giving him a chance.

[mvp 78]

Does he still have the same injury concerns that kept him from being more aggressive going after wall balls? Doesn't sound to me like he does. I don't really think that suggesting that he is wall shy at this time is fair. I'm giving him a chance.

 

Considering what we need out of his bat, I wouldn't want him running into the wall. He should spend his time learning the bounces. Manny, Gator and Jim Ed were all good enough in LF when their bats were red hot.

[moonslav59]

Considering what we need out of his bat, I wouldn't want him running into the wall. He should spend his time learning the bounces. Manny, Gator and Jim Ed were all good enough in LF when their bats were red hot.

 

Agreed. Make him play a shallow LF and tell him never to run into the wall, unless it's game 7 of a playoff series.

 

DH him in every AL park.

[cp176]

Considering what we need out of his bat, I wouldn't want him running into the wall. He should spend his time learning the bounces. Manny, Gator and Jim Ed were all good enough in LF when their bats were red hot.

 

Me not advocating for what you are saying doesn't mean I necessarily disagree with this. I'm just saying give the guy a chance.

[mvp 78]

Agreed. Make him play a shallow LF and tell him never to run into the wall, unless it's game 7 of a playoff series.

 

DH him in every AL park.

 

If it's game 7, don't put him in LF.

[mvp 78]

Me not advocating for what you are saying doesn't mean I necessarily disagree with this. I'm just saying give the guy a chance.

 

I'm just saying, he's better served not playing aggressively in LF.