Red Sox To Sign J.D. Martinez

[Natick to NC]

Truth be told before injuring himself a couple years ago ....He played much better RF than I want to ever admit .Yes JD can play RF and probably a very serviceable LF albeit dangerous LF here in Boston ....Please just DH though ....can you imagine the impact between JD and Devers going all out ??? Yikes

[cp176]

Truth be told before injuring himself a couple years ago ....He played much better RF than I want to ever admit .Yes JD can play RF and probably a very serviceable LF albeit dangerous LF here in Boston ....Please just DH though ....can you imagine the impact between JD and Devers going all out ??? Yikes

 

With Elsbury in the middle he would never have survived.

[cp176]

Defensive metrics trumps your old eyeballs. You should know that it is not necessary to even see a player perform to know that he sucks!

 

Jeesh. Get with the program old dude.

 

I know I know - but that is why I like Cora. He is fresh and new but he ain't going to throw away the old. We old bastards still got a chance here.

[Natick to NC]

With Elsbury in the middle he would never have survived.

 

That guy was a liability lol between that and his arm ??? Wow

[cp176]

Just for the sake of having an argument, though, I think playing first base has to be a little safer and/or easier on the body than playing left field, in Fenway at least. You don't tend to smash into walls very often playing first.

 

bad hops

getting spiked by opponents coming down the line or just getting run into

running into or over your own pitcher

getting run into by your second baseman or right fielder

running into the stands or the dugout chasing foul balls

 

oh hum - I could just go on and on

[mvp 78]

He will play some outfield when the other guys need a break.

 

But he really is that bad defensively.

 

He can be everyday LF in NL parks.

[moonslav59]

I expect him to see some time in left field obviously as well and before I hit him with the tried and true analytical analysis that he really stinks out there, I'm going to reserve judgement until I actually have a chance to really watch him play.

 

Agreed, but Nunez isn't much better in LF.

[Spudboy]

My inside sources tell me that when healthy Steven Right will be a reserve left fielder in Fenway.

 

Who cares if Nunez or Martinez can play there or not?

[cp176]

My inside sources tell me that when healthy Steven Right will be a reserve left fielder in Fenway.

 

Who cares if Nunez or Martinez can play there or not?

 

Good to hear they are going to find the right place for Wright. Finally a real athlete out there!!!

[moonslav59]

Here's the numbers on JD's defense:

 

Career:

UZR/150

LF: -4.7 (2336 innings)

RF: -6.5 (3717 innings)

 

Getting worse, though

2016/2017

LF: -18.2/-6.9

RF: -21.5/-14.8

 

DRS:

Career

LF: -4 (-4 last 2 yrs combined and 0 prior 2 yrs combined)

RF: -28 (-27 last 2 yrs combined and -1 previous 4 yrs combined)

 

Nunez has very little experience in the OF, but is numbers look good out there:

 

Career:

LF: +20.8 (283 innings) -2 DRS

RF: +7.0 (39 innings) -1 DRS

 

[FredLynn]

My inside sources tell me that when healthy Steven Right will be a reserve left fielder in Fenway.

 

Who cares if Nunez or Martinez can play there or not?

 

Not true. Wright's role will be limited to pinch running.

[cp176]

Here's the numbers on JD's defense:

 

Career:

UZR/150

LF: -4.7 (2336 innings)

RF: -6.5 (3717 innings)

 

Getting worse, though

2016/2017

LF: -18.2/-6.9

RF: -21.5/-14.8

 

DRS:

Career

LF: -4 (-4 last 2 yrs combined and 0 prior 2 yrs combined)

RF: -28 (-27 last 2 yrs combined and -1 previous 4 yrs combined)

 

Nunez has very little experience in the OF, but is numbers look good out there:

 

Career:

LF: +20.8 (283 innings) -2 DRS

RF: +7.0 (39 innings) -1 DRS

 

 

It is great to see all of the stats that indicate what he has done. Now I am just ready to actually watch what he can do.

[Natick to NC]

It is great to see all of the stats that indicate what he has done. Now I am just ready to actually watch what he can do.

 

Yeah Thankyou for pointing this out ...thought Nuney had more reps but that's not terrible ...JD would have similar if not much better numbers at those sample sizes ..both capable .ok JD can play 15 games in left at home 25 on the road 25 RF at home 15 on Road ....That's 80 games and that should make JD happy ....Heck I'd give Nuney a shot in LF spot starts to get both bats in there and rest Benny ....15 games .Poor Benny loll Mookie will need some time off and JBJ ....Obviously Mookie and JBJ can play any OF position ....Cora will earn his sheckles ....this is going to be one hell of a team .

Edited February 27, 2018 by Natick to NC

[moonslav59]

Sox get medical language inserted into contract...

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2018/02/jd-martinez-redsox-contract-medical-protection-three-opt-outs.html

 

....Specifically, Drellich further reports, the Red Sox can convert both years four and five of the contract into mutual options, pursuant to the newly drawn up language. In essence, then, the Sox have negotiated their own means of walking away from the final two years of the contract in the event that Martinez’s foot proves to be a chronic condition.

Per Drellich, should Martinez spend 60 consecutive days on the DL in year three of the contract (2020) with an injury related to his prior Lisfranc injury, the fourth year can be converted into a mutual option. Boston could also convert the fourth year to a mutual option should an injury pertaining to the prior Lisfranc issue prompt Martinez miss a combined 120 days between the second and third years of the deal (2019-20), with at least 10 of those days coming in year three. (The Boston Globe’s Nick Cafardo first tweeted that the team could render the fourth year a mutual option.)

 

Boston is similarly protected in the fifth season of the contract. If an injury pertaining to his previous Lisfranc issue causes Martinez to miss 60 consecutive days in the fourth year of the deal (2021) or a combined 120 days in 2020-21 (with at least 10 in year four), then the 2022 season can be converted to a mutual option. All determinations about whether a new Lisfranc injury for Martinez is related to the 2017 injury would be made by a panel of three doctors.

 

No wonder it took a week to finalize the deal!

[moonslav59]

Also,

 

Boston would be able to make Martinez a qualifying offer, should he decide to opt out of the remaining three years of the deal...

[Spudboy]

It is great to see all of the stats that indicate what he has done. Now I am just ready to actually watch what he can do.

 

Yeah tonight we are both from Missouri.

 

To me terrible is Hanley.

 

But what do I know. I like Johnny Gomes.

[Spudboy]

Not true. Wright's role will be limited to pinch running.

 

You just have not heard the latest scoop. In the off season Wright was playing a lot of left in Wiffle ball when not working on a speed bag.

[Natick to NC]

Also,

 

Boston would be able to make Martinez a qualifying offer, should he decide to opt out of the remaining three years of the deal...

 

Thankyou for posting this .Amazing job by Dave and Company !!!

[Jack Flap]

I hope we get chance to see how bad he is. lol

How many of you out there can honestly say that you have watched and scrutinized the way he plays in the field? Raise your hands.

 

I didn't watch him hit all 45 bombs last year, but based on the numbers, I think I have a fair bit of confidence that he has great power. I know people are generally more suspicious of defensive numbers for whatever reason, but at a certain point they, coupled with the consensus around the game that seems to have him as a fairly mediocre defender (although there were other factors at play, the fact that the only team willing to offer him a long-term deal plans to use him primarily as a DH seems noteworthy), are worth something, right? Not to denigrate the value of anyone's eyeballs, but the idea that you can't know anything about a player's defensive skill, and have to be purely agnostic on the subject, until you, personally, have watched them extensively seems...a bit preposterous to me.

 

Perhaps more to the point, all of us have had the opportunity to watch our current group of outfielders at work, and I for one feel no urgency to break up what should be one of the better defensive outfields in the majors on account of JDM. I expect we'll see him start from time to time to rest one of the starting three, but if it's any more than that, it means that one of the Beni/JBJ/Betts trinity has gotten hurt or their playing time has been cut for some reason, so for that reason alone, I certainly hope we don't see too much of him in the field. As someone else said, he was signed to hit, and I'm excited as hell to see him hit...not terribly concerned about the rest.

[cp176]

I didn't watch him hit all 45 bombs last year, but based on the numbers, I think I have a fair bit of confidence that he has great power. I know people are generally more suspicious of defensive numbers for whatever reason, but at a certain point they, coupled with the consensus around the game that seems to have him as a fairly mediocre defender (although there were other factors at play, the fact that the only team willing to offer him a long-term deal plans to use him primarily as a DH seems noteworthy), are worth something, right? Not to denigrate the value of anyone's eyeballs, but the idea that you can't know anything about a player's defensive skill, and have to be purely agnostic on the subject, until you, personally, have watched them extensively seems...a bit preposterous to me.

 

Perhaps more to the point, all of us have had the opportunity to watch our current group of outfielders at work, and I for one feel no urgency to break up what should be one of the better defensive outfields in the majors on account of JDM. I expect we'll see him start from time to time to rest one of the starting three, but if it's any more than that, it means that one of the Beni/JBJ/Betts trinity has gotten hurt or their playing time has been cut for some reason, so for that reason alone, I certainly hope we don't see too much of him in the field. As someone else said, he was signed to hit, and I'm excited as hell to see him hit...not terribly concerned about the rest.

 

The insinuation here is that I might not give any thought to defensive metrics and that is not right. The but is here that I would not make a definitive call until I actually saw him play. I certainly have not suggested ever that we break up our current outfield to play JD. I don't remember ever saying that you can know nothing about a player's potential to play a position until you have seen him play. I'm a little defensive here - I get that- but once again someone is trying to shape what I have written into what they want to hear. Oh well.

I will just add that I just read an article in which Martinez actually said that one of the reasons he came to Boston was that he was going to get the chance to play in the outfield on occasion. And also this for the people who feel that it is predominantly about the analytics - Cora has recently said that JD may in fact hit third. No commitment being made at this time. If Martinez is one of our best hitters, why in the devil would Alex Cora say that he might occupy the 3 hole where according to some that is the spot saved for you 5th best hitter. He certainly has been schooled in all things analytical, I just don't get it.

[jacksonianmarch]

Fangraphs has him as a putrid outfielder. -15 UZR/150 in 17, below -20 in 16. That’s an abysmal fielder. He’ll get some OF PT just as routine maintenance of the 3 solid defensive OFers, but with the Lisfranc injury, I’d assume no more than 40-50 games out there. If you figure each OFer, if healthy, will see 145-150 games, that’ll give you 45-51 games out there. JD probably only plays LF with Beni shifting to CF or RF when the other guys are rested

[cp176]

Fangraphs has him as a putrid outfielder. -15 UZR/150 in 17, below -20 in 16. That’s an abysmal fielder. He’ll get some OF PT just as routine maintenance of the 3 solid defensive OFers, but with the Lisfranc injury, I’d assume no more than 40-50 games out there. If you figure each OFer, if healthy, will see 145-150 games, that’ll give you 45-51 games out there. JD probably only plays LF with Beni shifting to CF or RF when the other guys are rested

 

I think that if he sees 40-50 games in left field he will be very happy.

[Bellhorn04]

bad hops

getting spiked by opponents coming down the line or just getting run into

running into or over your own pitcher

getting run into by your second baseman or right fielder

running into the stands or the dugout chasing foul balls

 

oh hum - I could just go on and on

 

But how many times do these things actually result in injury?

 

I just can't remember seeing many first basemen get injured on the field.

 

First basemen seem to be the most likely guys to play 150 games or more.

 

Meanwhile we've seen Hanley and Swihart get injured out in left in the last few years running into walls.

 

Just throwing it out there.

[cp176]

But how many times do these things actually result in injury?

 

I just can't remember seeing many first basemen get injured on the field.

 

First basemen seem to be the most likely guys to play 150 games or more.

 

Meanwhile we've seen Hanley and Swihart get injured out in left in the last few years running into walls.

 

Just throwing it out there.

 

stuff happens I guess - maybe left fielders are just numbskulls for the most part. And yes Bullhorn for sure Swihart would have been much safer if we had just left him behind the plate. lol - Hey now I see what that damned auto correct is Bellhorn!

[Bellhorn04]

stuff happens I guess - maybe left fielders are just numbskulls for the most part. And yes Bullhorn for sure Swihart would have been much safer if we had just left him behind the plate. lol - Hey now I see what that damned auto correct is Bellhorn!

 

Now now cp we're not talking about catcher, we're talking about first base.

 

You mentioned bad hops, so here's the deal - you tell me the last time a major league first baseman had to spend time on the DL because of a bad hop and I'll concede you're right that it's a dangerous position.

[cp176]

Now now cp we're not talking about catcher, we're talking about first base.

 

You mentioned bad hops, so here's the deal - you tell me the last time a major league first baseman had to spend time on the DL because of a bad hop and I'll concede you're right that it's a dangerous position.

 

If you do know me Bell, you know that I am not likely to look this up! The perception that I have created for myself here is that I am not "all in" on analytical research thus in some minds that means that I could give two great big Maine toots about it. I think all of the positions on a baseball field come equipped with inherent danger. Not that it matters because I certainly can't quantify it but I do believe that Martinez is as likely to get injured making his way to the ballpark as he is by playing left field in Fenway. I thought that you would at least be happy that I figured out the auto correct! lol -

If you have driven in Boston, you know exactly what I am saying.

[SoxnCycles]

He will play some outfield when the other guys need a break.

 

But he really is that bad defensively.

 

Worse than Manny?

[moonslav59]

I didn't watch him hit all 45 bombs last year, but based on the numbers, I think I have a fair bit of confidence that he has great power. I know people are generally more suspicious of defensive numbers for whatever reason, but at a certain point they, coupled with the consensus around the game that seems to have him as a fairly mediocre defender (although there were other factors at play, the fact that the only team willing to offer him a long-term deal plans to use him primarily as a DH seems noteworthy), are worth something, right? Not to denigrate the value of anyone's eyeballs, but the idea that you can't know anything about a player's defensive skill, and have to be purely agnostic on the subject, until you, personally, have watched them extensively seems...a bit preposterous to me.

 

Perhaps more to the point, all of us have had the opportunity to watch our current group of outfielders at work, and I for one feel no urgency to break up what should be one of the better defensive outfields in the majors on account of JDM. I expect we'll see him start from time to time to rest one of the starting three, but if it's any more than that, it means that one of the Beni/JBJ/Betts trinity has gotten hurt or their playing time has been cut for some reason, so for that reason alone, I certainly hope we don't see too much of him in the field. As someone else said, he was signed to hit, and I'm excited as hell to see him hit...not terribly concerned about the rest.

 

Who is in the "consensus" that JD is as good as "mediocre" on defense?

 

His UZR/150 and DRS numbers are well below average and even worse over the last 2 years.

 

Out of 67 OF'ers with 1500+ innings in the OF from 2016 to 2017, guess where JD places in UZR/150?

 

Yup, 67th at -18.4!

 

He's 64th in DRS at -27. Think about that -27 number. He only played in the OF an equivalent of less than 222 games. That's about -20 per 162 games.

 

He's not mediocre.

 

He's not even decent on defense.

 

That's why he's our new DH.

 

[moonslav59]

Worse than Manny?

 

Manny was -20.2 from 2002 on.

 

He was -90 DRS in 16335 innings, which is -8 per 162 games

[jacksonianmarch]

Some truth spouted by the masses. JD is an abhorrent defender. Advocating for him to play the OF is both detrimental to your team defense and potentially detrimental to JD’s health.

 

If I were DD or Cora, I’d have David Ortiz glued to JD throughout camp. Have David go over the transition from field to no field and the mentality required. It’s far harder than people think. I was a 1b in college and my senior year, I moved to DH as our SS hurt his shoulder and was a far better fielder than I. I couldn’t do it. I felt like I wasn’t a part of the game. It’s far harder than you think, especially when you haven’t been transitioned to it gradually. I’d have David there to show JD what to do during the downtime. Aside from literally 5 minutes of action, you have no role for the other 2 hours and 55 minutes.