Red Sox To Sign J.D. Martinez

[a700hitter]

Bad by UZR, worse by DRS ... eye test does not reflect anything special. He is not Hanley in LF bad - but nobody is. He's a decent OF for a DH.

How many games have you attended where he has played LF?

[S5Dewey]

JDM's defensive improvement shouldn't come as a surprise. We hear a lot about his work regarding his hitting so it's natural that he'd be working on his defense too. I'd guess we just don't hear about it because D doesn't get the 'ink' that Offense does.

[S5Dewey]

Bad by UZR, worse by DRS ... eye test does not reflect anything special. He is not Hanley in LF bad - but nobody is. He's a decent OF for a DH.

 

Defensive metrics only reflect career or season long numbers so they're going to make him look worse than he's playing now.

[sk7326]

fwiw, I'll see them Tuesday - not often the chance appears for me ...

[a700hitter]

JDM's defensive improvement shouldn't come as a surprise. We hear a lot about his work regarding his hitting so it's natural that he'd be working on his defense too. I'd guess we just don't hear about it because D doesn't get the 'ink' that Offense does.

Mickey Mantle was a pretty good base stealer. He didn't run a lot, not even before his knees were crippled, but he had an 80% success ratio. No one talks about his base stealing or his fielding, because you were riveted to his ABs.

[a700hitter]

fwiw, I'll see them Tuesday - not often the chance appears for me ...

Maybe he will play the OF that day.

[S5Dewey]

fwiw, I'll see them Tuesday - not often the chance appears for me ...

 

hey, that's great! Enjoy. You may even run into my son there. He and his family are going through Washington and bought tickets for the game. You'll know him in a minute. Of the two of us he's the younger and better looking one.

[Spudboy]

I disagree. He was "weak" (I'm being generous) during ST and at the beginning of the season but he's improved A LOT since them. He'll always be seen as a "bad" infielder as long as he's being compared to the three we have out there though.

 

You are wrong. He is very serviceable in the OF.

 

As a former outfielder I agree with both of yuze tooz.

[Spudboy]

I disagree. He was "weak" (I'm being generous) during ST and at the beginning of the season but he's improved A LOT since them. He'll always be seen as a "bad" infielder as long as he's being compared to the three we have out there though.

 

Mickey Mantle was a pretty good base stealer. He didn't run a lot, not even before his knees were crippled, but he had an 80% success ratio. No one talks about his base stealing or his fielding, because you were riveted to his ABs.

 

I missed Mantle when he was young and healthy.

 

But he was a legit 5 tool guy from everything I have read and have heard.

 

His knees were junk by the time I saw him play. This was back when knee surgery involved a hammer and a sickle. No scopes were used.

 

Of course the bottle got the rest of him later on. Sad.

[cp176]

You are wrong. He is very serviceable in the OF.

 

you are right as is my friend SSDewey. I'll say again also that if he feels more comfortable playing the field as opposed to dhing I would stuff all those misleading metrics right where the sun don't shine. He is just to good at what he does.

[Kimmi]

On a slightly different JD topic, here's a great tweet from my favorite tweeter:

 

Red Sox Stats

‏ @redsoxstats

6m6 minutes ago

 

When Martinez bats 3rd this year he bats with 2 outs and bases empty 23% of the time. When he bats 4th he bats with 2 outs and bases empty 10% of the time.

 

Batting 3rd he's batted in low leverage situations 57% of the time, batting 4th low leverage 44% of the time.

 

 

JD should not be batting 3rd. My man gets it.

[Bellhorn04]

On a slightly different JD topic, here's a great tweet from my favorite tweeter:

 

Red Sox Stats

‏ @redsoxstats

6m6 minutes ago

 

When Martinez bats 3rd this year he bats with 2 outs and bases empty 23% of the time. When he bats 4th he bats with 2 outs and bases empty 10% of the time.

 

Batting 3rd he's batted in low leverage situations 57% of the time, batting 4th low leverage 44% of the time.

 

JD should not be batting 3rd. My man gets it.

 

OTOH

 

Batting 3rd 359/424/648 1072

Batting 4th 303/370/635 1005

[a700hitter]

as a former outfielder i agree with both of yuze tooz.

lol!!

[Hitch]

fwiw, I'll see them Tuesday - not often the chance appears for me ...

 

I had the privilege of watching my first ever Yanks - Red Sox game last night. Couldn't have picked a nicer one. It was nice to be in tow with a load of Yankee fans.

[Spudboy]

OTOH

 

Batting 3rd 359/424/648 1072

Batting 4th 303/370/635 1005

 

"Shot with her own gun".

[dgalehouse]

OTOH

 

Batting 3rd 359/424/648 1072

Batting 4th 303/370/635 1005

 

The beautiful thing about stats is that there are now so many of them that one can almost always find one that supports their position.

[Station 13]

"Shot with her own gun".

 

lol

 

JD should bat 3rd, he gets some protection that way.

[moonslav59]

lol

 

JD should bat 3rd, he gets some protection that way.

 

In the past, I'd agree, but apparently the 3 slot is not for your best hitter. Then again, they say the 2 slot is and neither Betts or JD bat there.

 

If we move JD to 3, we lose the "protection" he gives the 3 slot hitter.

 

I still like Bogey 2nd.

 

I might prefer....

 

1) Beni

2) Bogey

3) Betts

4) JD

5) Moreland/Pearce

6) Devers

7) Nunez/Holt

8) Vaz/Leon

9) JBJ

[Bellhorn04]

In the past, I'd agree, but apparently the 3 slot is not for your best hitter. Then again, they say the 2 slot is and neither Betts or JD bat there.

 

If we move JD to 3, we lose the "protection" he gives the 3 slot hitter.

 

I still like Bogey 2nd.

 

I might prefer....

 

1) Beni

2) Bogey

3) Betts

4) JD

5) Moreland/Pearce

6) Devers

7) Nunez/Holt

8) Vaz/Leon

9) JBJ

 

The statistics show that the #3 hitter comes up with 2 outs and nobody on base more than any other position. That's the whole issue with it.

 

You have to figure that most of this occurs in the first inning. What other possible explanation could there be? Especially when you've got your 2 highest OBP guys up first and second.

 

Kimmi has said numerous times that the batting order doesn't mean that much and that the statistical stuff should probably be outweighed by putting guys where they're comfortable. Although she seems to making a bit of a big deal about JDF batting third.

[cp176]

The statistics show that the #3 hitter comes up with 2 outs and nobody on base more than any other position. That's the whole issue with it.

 

You have to figure that most of this occurs in the first inning. What other possible explanation could there be? Especially when you've got your 2 highest OBP guys up first and second.

 

Kimmi has said numerous times that the batting order doesn't mean that much and that the statistical stuff should probably be outweighed by putting guys where they're comfortable. Although she seems to making a bit of a big deal about JDF batting third.

 

I think that you are right about this but I tend to think that someone who is good with and knows how to use statistics can use them frequently to justify about any position that they want to take. The old ways vs the new ways - neither really can stand alone. Kind of like politics, what would be wrong with using the best of what both have to offer.

[Kimmi]

OTOH

 

Batting 3rd 359/424/648 1072

Batting 4th 303/370/635 1005

 

Fair enough. I will take you even one step farther, because that's just the kind of poster I am.

 

With JD batting 3rd, the Sox have scored 5.26 runs per game.

With JD batting 4th, the Sox have scored 5.19 runs per game.

 

That amounts to a difference of 11.3 runs over the season.

[Kimmi]

lol

 

JD should bat 3rd, he gets some protection that way.

 

That would make sense, if protection were actually a real thing.

[Kimmi]

The statistics show that the #3 hitter comes up with 2 outs and nobody on base more than any other position. That's the whole issue with it.

 

You have to figure that most of this occurs in the first inning. What other possible explanation could there be? Especially when you've got your 2 highest OBP guys up first and second.

 

Kimmi has said numerous times that the batting order doesn't mean that much and that the statistical stuff should probably be outweighed by putting guys where they're comfortable. Although she seems to making a bit of a big deal about JDF batting third.

 

Haha. I saw that tweet and got a little excited. I can't help myself.

 

Batting order does not make that much of a difference, unless a manager is going to truly optimize his line up by bucking all tradition. The difference between JD batting 3rd versus batting 4th amounts to 2 runs, on average, over an entire season. I completely agree that batters should be placed where they feel most comfortable. If JD has expressed a preference to bat 3rd rather than 4th, than by all means, Cora should leave him there.

 

All that said, I am a firm believer that your best hitter should not be batting 3rd, and I will continue to make that point. IMO, JD would be comfortable hitting in either spot, and over the long run, the team would be better off.

[Kimmi]

The statistics show that the #3 hitter comes up with 2 outs and nobody on base more than any other position. That's the whole issue with it.

 

You have to figure that most of this occurs in the first inning. What other possible explanation could there be? Especially when you've got your 2 highest OBP guys up first and second.

 

Kimmi has said numerous times that the batting order doesn't mean that much and that the statistical stuff should probably be outweighed by putting guys where they're comfortable. Although she seems to making a bit of a big deal about JDF batting third.

 

The statistics also show that out of the top 5 spots, the #3 spot is the fewest number of high impact at bats. A good bit of that is obviously due to the first inning.

[cp176]

The statistics show that the #3 hitter comes up with 2 outs and nobody on base more than any other position. That's the whole issue with it.

 

You have to figure that most of this occurs in the first inning. What other possible explanation could there be? Especially when you've got your 2 highest OBP guys up first and second.

 

Kimmi has said numerous times that the batting order doesn't mean that much and that the statistical stuff should probably be outweighed by putting guys where they're comfortable. Although she seems to making a bit of a big deal about JDF batting third.

 

The more I think about it the more I think that this is a great(er) post and shows one of the glaring pitfalls of over relying on simply one point of view to formulate any opinion on just about anything. Mookie has hit 21 home runs and has a total of 42 rbi's. That seems very low to me but I'm not backing that statement up with anything measurable. I can't help but think that if he was hitting third he would have just a few more rbi's. He is one of if not the best hitter in the game today. Now, if he is comfortable leading off and wants to hit in that position, I say leave him alone even though it might not optimize his ability to knock in runs.

[Kimmi]

The more I think about it the more I think that this is a great(er) post and shows one of the glaring pitfalls of over relying on simply one point of view to formulate any opinion on just about anything. Mookie has hit 21 home runs and has a total of 42 rbi's. That seems very low to me but I'm not backing that statement up with anything measurable. I can't help but think that if he was hitting third he would have just a few more rbi's. He is one of if not the best hitter in the game today. Now, if he is comfortable leading off and wants to hit in that position, I say leave him alone even though it might not optimize his ability to knock in runs.

 

The problem with your line of thinking is that every move in baseball is affected by a counter move. You can't look at the effect on Mookie alone, but rather the effect that moving Mookie has on the entire lineup. Sure, if Mookie were batting 3rd, he'd likely have more RBIs. OTOH, he would definitely get less at bats, the lead off spot, which comes up most often, would be weakened (which is no small thing), and Mookie would likely score less runs. The net effect would be a negative one, if anything.

[SoxnCycles]

The problem with your line of thinking is that every move in baseball is affected by a counter move. You can't look at the effect on Mookie alone, but rather the effect that moving Mookie has on the entire lineup. Sure, if Mookie were batting 3rd, he'd likely have more RBIs. OTOH, he would definitely get less at bats, the lead off spot, which comes up most often, would be weakened (which is no small thing), and Mookie would likely score less runs. The net effect would be a negative one, if anything.

 

Yup, I doubt the Sox, or Mookie are greatly concerned about Mookie not having more RBIs.

Total runs scored is what's important.

[Kimmi]

Yup, I doubt the Sox, or Mookie are greatly concerned about Mookie not having more RBIs.

Total runs scored is what's important.

 

Mookie has a .430 OBP. The next closest on the team is JD, with a .391 OBP.

 

Take Mookie out of the lead off spot, and you are really weakening that spot in the lineup.

 

It's also great to put pressure on the opposing pitcher right from the get go.

[cp176]

The problem with your line of thinking is that every move in baseball is affected by a counter move. You can't look at the effect on Mookie alone, but rather the effect that moving Mookie has on the entire lineup. Sure, if Mookie were batting 3rd, he'd likely have more RBIs. OTOH, he would definitely get less at bats, the lead off spot, which comes up most often, would be weakened (which is no small thing), and Mookie would likely score less runs. The net effect would be a negative one, if anything.

 

There really is nothing wrong with line of reasoning. It is another way of looking at things other than your way. I'm ok with it.

[a700hitter]

There really is nothing wrong with line of reasoning. It is another way of looking at things other than your way. I'm ok with it.

Excellent post.