2017/18 Hot Stove Thread

[moonslav59]

I'm back ...Here's my question at this point regarding pitching ....How does this new lighter workload for Sale ? For Price ? Effect the bully ? Personally I love the idea of a permanent 6 man rotation period with this team .Velaszquez seems like a decent 6 option but can't we do even better than him ? Wright Could be a disaster he's a knuckleballer who the last time we watched him his knuckler wasn't moving ....he was getting crushed ...Price and Sale I'm counting on but then praying for rain ...Who is on the block a young controllable pitcher that we can target??? Or do we jettison some salary ? Blake makes this team if I'm coaching and yes he's my number 2 catcher ...Cora seems like he won't have the nuts to do that his first year ...we have Nunez and Lin and marrero so to me Holt should be shopped today .....what about going another route and packaging Holt ,Barnes ,a Prospect for A pitcher ?......lastly why not just go after Lackey as a number 5 ? He knows Boston he knows the pressure he doesn't have to be the man here just be a vet with real playoff history and been through the battles ...I feel like this is the year we have to strike and not feel around ..Lackey by most accounts is beloved by his teammates .....Trust me when I say this ..,Lackey ,Bucky,Lester ,Pap and many of the players who leave here may at first show a red ass ....they absolutely miss the atmosphere here ...there's nothing like it ...Erod has never put it together and Rick who's an innings eater is a wildcard ....we are paper thin .Kelly,Barnes are not life lines for this rotation ....they have done a decent job but will be shot from arm fatigue by June .

 

There are more built-in days off this year.

 

I'm not for a 6 man rotation.

 

I think our pen really stepped up last year, and by adding Smith and maybe Thornburg at some point, plus full seasons from Workman and Maddox, if needed, we should be even better with our pen this year.

 

I'd like to see us add a vet SP'er, but we only have about $4M to spend. If we can wait until mid season, we'll only owe a pro-rated share of a better pitcher's contract than one we can afford to sign now.

[Natick to NC]

I still don't see how this works with a 5 man rotation and our two best pitchers on light innings in the regular season doesn't burn the crap out of the pen ..guess I'm missing something .Thornburg needs to dip his toe in slowly but I am excited to see him pitch....4 million is a little shy of what it would take for 1 year of Lackey type ...maybe 8 would do it .

[mvp 78]

Ben had some big contracts on the roster he inherited as well. He also had a depleted farm and so had no real trade options. He had to go the free agent route.

 

That doesn't excuse the poor FA choices he made, but it did make sense to wait a year to sign a pitcher as the market was loaded his second year and go for offense year 1.

 

 

Depleted farm? It was still top 10 according to Baseball America.

 

9. BOSTON RED SOX

 

2011 RANK: 17. 2010 RANK: 5.

 

IMPACT TALENT: The most impressive Red Sox prospects are position players who haven't yet proven themselves at higher levels: 3B Will Middlebrooks, SS Xander Bogaerts and C Blake Swihart. Most of their top minor league pitchers regressed in 2011, though the organization was happy with the progress made by RHP Anthony Ranaudo.

 

DEPTH: No large-revenue team has invested as much in the draft as Boston, which spent $44.1 million on bonuses from 2007-11. The new draft spending limitations that go into effect this year may hurt the Sox more than any other club, as almost all of their best prospects (Middlebrooks, Swihart, Ranaudo, OF Brandon Jacobs, 3B Garin Cecchini, RHP Matt Barnes, OF Jackie Bradley) were over-slot draft signings.

 

2012 ROOKIES: C Ryan Lavarnway has nothing left to prove offensively in Triple-A but no clear path to playing time in Boston. SS Jose Iglesias could take over as a starter as soon as he shows he can handle quality pitching, which he has yet to do. RHP Alex Wilson could give a reworked bullpen a boost.

[mvp 78]

It is amusing to read opinions of people who think DD just happens to be walking around without any plan, just strolling around, daydreaming his way into situations...

 

I mean it's fine if you don't agree with his plan, but to think a highly respected GM in charge of one of the biggest sports clubs int he world doesn't really think things through or make any plans...what do you say to that? Ha!

 

Anyway, i think bar the odd depth move/minor league deal pitcher acquisition we are done. The payroll is too tight for anything else.

 

DD goes from "desperate" to "no plan" in the blink of an eye. Funny how that works around here.

[cp176]

DD goes from "desperate" to "no plan" in the blink of an eye. Funny how that works around here.

 

you know i agree with you

[moonslav59]

Depleted farm? It was still top 10 according to Baseball America.

 

9. BOSTON RED SOX

 

2011 RANK: 17. 2010 RANK: 5.

 

IMPACT TALENT: The most impressive Red Sox prospects are position players who haven't yet proven themselves at higher levels: 3B Will Middlebrooks, SS Xander Bogaerts and C Blake Swihart. Most of their top minor league pitchers regressed in 2011, though the organization was happy with the progress made by RHP Anthony Ranaudo.

 

DEPTH: No large-revenue team has invested as much in the draft as Boston, which spent $44.1 million on bonuses from 2007-11. The new draft spending limitations that go into effect this year may hurt the Sox more than any other club, as almost all of their best prospects (Middlebrooks, Swihart, Ranaudo, OF Brandon Jacobs, 3B Garin Cecchini, RHP Matt Barnes, OF Jackie Bradley) were over-slot draft signings.

 

2012 ROOKIES: C Ryan Lavarnway has nothing left to prove offensively in Triple-A but no clear path to playing time in Boston. SS Jose Iglesias could take over as a starter as soon as he shows he can handle quality pitching, which he has yet to do. RHP Alex Wilson could give a reworked bullpen a boost.

 

I'm standing by my position.

 

It was depleted.

 

Middy, Ranaudo, Bogey, Iggy, Lava...

 

The farm Ben left for DD:

 

Moncada, Devers, Espi, Beni, Kopech...

 

Night & Day.

[Nick]

I'm standing by my position.

 

It was depleted.

 

Middy, Ranaudo, Bogey, Iggy, Lava...

 

The farm Ben left for DD:

 

Moncada, Devers, Espi, Beni, Kopech...

 

Night & Day.

 

You own the Sox. You hired me to get the Sox out of finishing last two years in a row. What did you want me to do?

 

On the heels of "we have five starting pitchers" excuse, I go out and get the absolute best starter available.

 

I needed a closer and trade away some kids for Kimbrel. How are those kids doing? Wasn't an outfielder blocked by our B boys?

 

In the middle of pennant chase, we needed a starter. We trade for Pom. How's Espi doing?

 

Year later, on the beliefs that 3B will be covered better by Devers than Moncada, I trade Kopech and Moncada for Sale. Moncada is technically blocked by Pedey had he stayed with the Sox.

 

Beni was a star moment he stepped onto the field.

 

Technically we can re-set the tax penalty rate after we win the world series this year. Get rid of Kimbrel, Kelly, Holt and Pom. Hope Hanley doesn't vest for 2019. That's about $50M off the books and we get a $9M pickup on luxury tax limit. We'll still have $25M to take care of arbitration players.

 

It can work. We just need to win it all this year.

[Bellhorn04]

I'm standing by my position.

 

It was depleted.

 

Middy, Ranaudo, Bogey, Iggy, Lava...

 

The farm Ben left for DD:

 

Moncada, Devers, Espi, Beni, Kopech...

 

Night & Day.

 

What about Betts and JBJ?

[moonslav59]

You own the Sox. You hired me to get the Sox out of finishing last two years in a row. What did you want me to do?

 

On the heels of "we have five starting pitchers" excuse, I go out and get the absolute best starter available.

 

I needed a closer and trade away some kids for Kimbrel. How are those kids doing? Wasn't an outfielder blocked by our B boys?

 

In the middle of pennant chase, we needed a starter. We trade for Pom. How's Espi doing?

 

Year later, on the beliefs that 3B will be covered better by Devers than Moncada, I trade Kopech and Moncada for Sale. Moncada is technically blocked by Pedey had he stayed with the Sox.

 

Beni was a star moment he stepped onto the field.

 

Technically we can re-set the tax penalty rate after we win the world series this year. Get rid of Kimbrel, Kelly, Holt and Pom. Hope Hanley doesn't vest for 2019. That's about $50M off the books and we get a $9M pickup on luxury tax limit. We'll still have $25M to take care of arbitration players.

 

It can work. We just need to win it all this year.

 

I've said numerous times, I have no problem with what DD has done.

 

I'm not sure what more I can say to convince you I mean it.

 

We will not reset the tax next winter, even if HRam does not vest. We may "get rid of Kimbrel and Pom", but we will need to replace them with somebody costly or close the window to another ring.

[mvp 78]

What about Betts and JBJ?

 

Crickets.

[Hitch]

DD goes from "desperate" to "no plan" in the blink of an eye. Funny how that works around here.

 

Yeah but at least all the people who were losing their s*** calling him desperate and clueless came in after the JD signing and admitted they were wrong rather than going on to baselessly complain about other things.

 

That happened right?

[Jack Flap]

What about Betts and JBJ?

 

Good catch. You could throw in Shaw, Margot, Barnes, and others who have either contributed in some way or been used in trades...and that's before you get to guys like Swihart and Owens who get overlooked now because they haven't panned out, but were considered very good prospects at one time.

 

Ben inherited a very nice pool of young talent from Theo no matter how you slice it.

[moonslav59]

Good catch. You could throw in Shaw, Margot, Barnes, and others who have either contributed in some way or been used in trades...and that's before you get to guys like Swihart and Owens who get overlooked now because they haven't panned out, but were considered very good prospects at one time.

 

Ben inherited a very nice pool of young talent from Theo no matter how you slice it.

 

Yes, it was much better than I portrayed it to be, but if you want to count Swihart and Owens, then Betts wasn't even top 20 on soxprospects.com when Ben took over.

 

I stand corrected. I was wrong. It was a very good farm, in hindsight and was 9th in BA rankings.

[mvp 78]

Yeah but at least all the people who were losing their s*** calling him desperate and clueless came in after the JD signing and admitted they were wrong rather than going on to baselessly complain about other things.

 

That happened right?

 

I think one of our many mods deleted that post.

[MADSTORK]

Ben's been gone for 2 1/2 years. Dombrowski has had plenty of time to get pitchers, unless you think the minors is the only possible source. (Even then, Must of the guys in the upper minors on the 40-man roster were drafted by Ben. Johnson, Maddox, Buttery, Martin, Haley)[/quote

 

 

Cherington and Ownership or vice versa saddled this current Roster with 3 garbage deals to Sandoval Ramirez and Porcello.

 

Your paying for it now when there is a glaring need in the Rotation with or without pomeranz.

 

I’ll rephrase, thanks Ben Larry Tom and John

[baseball jones]

Yeah but at least all the people who were losing their s*** calling him desperate and clueless came in after the JD signing and admitted they were wrong rather than going on to baselessly complain about other things.

 

That happened right?

 

last october our starters lasted 13 innings in 4 games.whats baseless about that?

[Emp9]

Ben's been gone for 2 1/2 years. Dombrowski has had plenty of time to get pitchers, unless you think the minors is the only possible source. (Even then, Must of the guys in the upper minors on the 40-man roster were drafted by Ben. Johnson, Maddox, Buttery, Martin, Haley)[/quote

 

 

Cherington and Ownership or vice versa saddled this current Roster with 3 garbage deals to Sandoval Ramirez and Porcello.

 

Your paying for it now when there is a glaring need in the Rotation with or without pomeranz.

 

I’ll rephrase, thanks Ben Larry Tom and John

 

Panda, yes. That was the definition of a bad deal. HanRam & Porcello? Nah. Big market teams make these kinds of deals all the time. Gotta take some chances. They both might even still be worth it. I wouldn’t be shocked if both had respectable ‘18 seasons.

[Kimmi]

Yes but you were specifically pointing out the $40M overpay.

 

Be specific how you would have put the team together after finishing dead last 3 out of 4 years without adding payroll. I know you think we overpaid for Price. But by how much? How would you know what the others were offering? Are you adept at knowing exactly when the market is at the highest and the lowest? Are you a mind reader?

 

DD was hired to GET THE f*** OUT OF THE BASEMENT. Maybe you guys enjoy watching crappy ass baseball but I like current team better.

 

I can promise you that the Sox were getting out of the basement in 2016 whether Dombrowski was hired or not.

 

He's done a good job, but really, you give him far too much credit.

[Kimmi]

I'm chuckling as I read many of these posts. DD gets beat up pretty badly here by some of you folks. Message is that he won't win with you. If his plan is not exactly what you want him to do, you aren't happy. Too bad! I'm pretty sure that he knows exactly what he is doing. You really don't think that he isn't scouring the landscape for potential veteran pitchers who might help us? I thought that at the least he would get some big shoutouts for adding to the analytics team. Not a word. He is a professional who is doing an excellent job.

 

You also give Dombrowski too much credit.

[Kimmi]

It is amusing to read opinions of people who think DD just happens to be walking around without any plan, just strolling around, daydreaming his way into situations...

 

I mean it's fine if you don't agree with his plan, but to think a highly respected GM in charge of one of the biggest sports clubs int he world doesn't really think things through or make any plans...what do you say to that? Ha!

 

Anyway, i think bar the odd depth move/minor league deal pitcher acquisition we are done. The payroll is too tight for anything else.

 

I believe that there is only one poster here who thinks Dombrowski doesn't have a plan.

 

I am certainly not a big fan, but I know he has a plan.

[Kimmi]

DD goes from "desperate" to "no plan" in the blink of an eye. Funny how that works around here.

 

Again, that is only one poster.

 

Don't throw the rest of us Dombrowski critics in the same boat.

[MADSTORK]

 

Panda, yes. That was the definition of a bad deal. HanRam & Porcello? Nah. Big market teams make these kinds of deals all the time. Gotta take some chances. They both might even still be worth it. I wouldn’t be shocked if both had respectable ‘18 seasons.

 

Your a gambling man lol

[cp176]

You also give Dombrowski too much credit.

 

I don't think that I give him too much credit. I honestly think that the items being whined about here are things that he is considering and trying to address. It doesn't take a great deal of intellect to recognize the needs of this team limited as they might be. I suppose that it is possible that with respect to adding starting pitching which seems to be the big bitch these days that he feels that our current in house guys might be as good as any that are affordable elsewhere.

[Hitch]

last october our starters lasted 13 innings in 4 games.whats baseless about that?

 

I'm not really sure what your post has to do with mine.

[Hitch]

Again, that is only one poster.

 

Don't throw the rest of us Dombrowski critics in the same boat.

 

Nobody is doing that. But many people were calling him out for inaction (and worse) before the JD signing.

 

Some discussions were valid but there was a lot of nonsense being posted without any evidence. Simply go back a couple of weeks on the board and you'll see it.

 

You're a thoughtful poster and so there is no need to ask not to be lumped in as one because of any criticism you may have of DD. You wouldn't be.

[notin]

I've called him out for inaction when it comes to getting pitching depth. But in my defense, he hasn't gotten any. In fact his DFA of Ben Taylor has arguably depleted the pitching depth.

 

I did very frustrated with the JD Martinez saga, but I blamed Martinez for that and not Dombrowski. ..

[baseball jones]

I'm not really sure what your post has to do with mine.

 

we were talking about the need for pitching.i thought your comment was about that.my mistake

[Hitch]

No problems. I agree with you both that a little extra pitching depth could go a long way. I only see there being minor league contracts happening with our budget restraints, though.

[Nick]

I can promise you that the Sox were getting out of the basement in 2016 whether Dombrowski was hired or not.

 

He's done a good job, but really, you give him far too much credit.

 

I have NEVER volunteered to say anything about DD. I make my comment ONLY when others tear him down.

 

He's doing his job. Nothing more. Nothing less. I really don't want to talk about him. BUT I WILL DEFEND HIM WHEN HE'S UNDULY CRITICIZED.

[Natick to NC]

I think Dave is not the guy to hang failures on at this point ...I blame coaching and the players more ...example Chili Davis and how he in my opinion neutered our lineup ...other opinion ...our supposed vet catcher Leon in my opinion sucks at calling some games too inconsistent ....Holt although a great person has no place on this roster.....Blake Swihart should be given the 2 catchers spot .now Dave ...Mitch is my only head scratch ...I would have gone in a different direction but understand why he did it.....The team could have really used a Molina the last two years for the staff ...but if we are going in this to win this ??? Go for Broke is all I ask Dave ....The window is now .The farm is light sure but we are maybe two pieces away....Empty it if need be ...then trade vets for prospects when it's shut . Edited March 6, 2018 by Natick to NC