Rafael Devers

[Jasonbay44]

They have Rutledge to deal with too.

 

Just DFA him, who cares, he sucks.

[sk7326]

If he looks overwhelmed like Moncado did last season, DF will still have time to do a deal. I never bought the line of thought that players are so fragile that bringing them up too early can ruin them.

 

Made sense to do it on this trip - always had. A call up won't ruin a kid - although not every kid can handle it. Moncada - the cake just wasn't baked yet. (yes, whether it ever does is an open question - but the answer was decidedly not 2016)

 

Bringing up a kid early can screw things up for a kid organizationally. There ain't the same time for teaching at the big league level - if the player can't make the adjustments on his own, it's tough sledding. And an org is burning an option year - which reduces their choices in the future. (Wily Mo Pena is a really good case for this)

 

Devers has handled aggressive promotion - he is a good guy to bet on - bat him 9th, let him figure it out over 2 months.

[sk7326]

Hey, some guys come up and suck and then end up all stars. Just ask Aaron Judge.

 

Pedroia went from

 

2006 - not a big leaguer

2007 - rookie of the year

2008 - MVP

[sk7326]

So reportedly he is scheduled to play in the 2nd game in Seattle on Tuesday. Then there is another game on Wednesday in Seattle followed by 3 games at Fenway against the Royals before the trade deadline. What he does in those 5 games will obviously influence what DD does or doesn't do pertaining to the 3B situation for the rest of the season.

 

I just don't get it. Such a short leash. I wish they had brought Devers up directly from AA, rather than the 34 AB's at AAA Pawtucket, thus allowing for a more extended evaluation period before the trade deadline.

 

I think this is an indication that if Devers produces he will become the regular 3B. If he falters, they'll alternate Brock, Marrero, and Lin through the rest of the season.

 

No it won't - he is here to play. They don't burn an option year on him without being ready to let him ride. Remember - they brought Benintendi directly from AA. I suspect they were more protective of Devers because of the difference in age and high-intensity experience. (Benintendi in the SEC) But when a kid has brought the batting practice power he showed as a 17 year old into games in Portland - you have to start thinking hard.

 

The AAA assignment was neither here nor there - Devers had nothing left to prove in Portland. And this trip was ALWAYS the sensible time to make the call. Better making your debut on the road than say during a Yankees series at Fenway. Kid can focus on baseball and his new team - with less of the other stuff.

 

Unless he looks lost like Moncada, he's going to get his chance to figure this out ... and it makes sense, none of the other viable options would have that much higher odds of popping. Beltre was the only 3B who made sense, and there were good reasons for both teams to not make that deal.

[Nick]

This is a case where most of the fans were right. Finally the FO saw it our way. What do we have to lose?

 

I've been okay with trades so far. But I also realize that our farm needs restocking right now. Not prudent to trade away more prospects for a rental.

 

We've been scouring entire planet for Pablo's replacement. Meanwhile, our #1 prospect, yes our #1 prospect who by the way just happens to play 3B, sits waiting. Nothing more to prove in the minors.

 

We get too hung up chronological age. This kid was signed as a 16 year old. He's been groomed to be a major league ball player. He was not some spoiled teenager that lived in a comfortable suburb playing travel baseball as a 16 year old.

 

This team needs to wake up. Specifically those we counted on.....I don't care what the WAR stats say. Betts has been sub par offensively. Xander is turning out to be a run of mill singles hitting shortstop. (And you want to give him $25M contract). He is at best a mediocre defensive SS. Beni? He was a better player last September. We think he's a superior defensive left fielder. Well he's not. He's living off other two thirds of Sox OF. At the least I thought he's a smart kid. Well he's not that either. He makes bone head running mistakes as much as Hanley and others. Moreland has become the hitter everyone thought he'd be.....don't get me wrong I think he's still a bargain at $5M. But his career line screams 'mediocre'.

 

And what's with Farrell's fascination with Holt? I'd take more athletic Lin. As Moon said, Holt should have been traded when he had some value. What would any team give up for him now?

 

There's a reason the TV ratings are down. Who wants to watch paint dry for 3 1/2 hours?

Edited July 24, 2017 by Nick

[cp176]

Made sense to do it on this trip - always had. A call up won't ruin a kid - although not every kid can handle it. Moncada - the cake just wasn't baked yet. (yes, whether it ever does is an open question - but the answer was decidedly not 2016)

 

Bringing up a kid early can screw things up for a kid organizationally. There ain't the same time for teaching at the big league level - if the player can't make the adjustments on his own, it's tough sledding. And an org is burning an option year - which reduces their choices in the future. (Wily Mo Pena is a really good case for this)

 

Devers has handled aggressive promotion - he is a good guy to bet on - bat him 9th, let him figure it out over 2 months.

 

The option year, although can be important, it doesn't look to me as though it something that is going to take precedence over trying to make this team a better team in the eyes of DD. You need to play your best players. In this case, we get a chance to find out what Devers can do. It is surely worth the risk.

[sk7326]

The option year, although can be important, it doesn't look to me as though it something that is going to take precedence over trying to make this team a better team in the eyes of DD. You need to play your best players. In this case, we get a chance to find out what Devers can do. It is surely worth the risk.

 

The option accelerates the clock on making decisions - including starting free agency clock and such eventually ... so it does rush the org a bit - so if the player is not quite ready it can be tougher to do side work. But I think in Devers case there is more polish than when Moncada came up.

[Kimmi]

I won't lie, I'm excited that Devers is being called up. Hopefully he will give the offense a much needed spark and infuse the team with energy. That said, this is clearly a panic move.

 

1. Less than 2 weeks ago, Dombrowski said that Devers would not be rushed and that they would not put that kind of pressure on the kid.

2. The Yankees make a 'blockbuster' move. The media then puts the pressure on Dombrowski to counter.

3. As recently as a few days ago, Dombrowski reportedly stated that the team did not feel that Devers was mentally ready.

4. The Red Sox are in a bit of a funk, losing 2 of 3 to the Angels. Meanwhile, the Yankees win 3 of 4 and gain a game on the Sox.

5. Also in the meantime, Devers makes 4 errors in 7 games.

6. Dombrowski does an about face and calls up Devers.

 

It's a panic move. I'm not saying that Devers is not ready to be called up or that he won't do well, I just don't like the complete about face that the team has done.

[Kimmi]

Have you seen him play? In the game I saw two weeks ago he made a couple of fantastic plays. It was his hitting that seemed suspect.

 

Reminds me of Bogaerts. Bogaerts makes some great plays, but also has his share of flubs.

 

I have not seen Devers play, but from what I've read, the left side infield defense now becomes a concern. Marrero was at least able to stabilize that, weak bat and all. If Devers falters defensively, will the improved offense be enough to offset the loss in defense?

[sk7326]

I won't lie, I'm excited that Devers is being called up. Hopefully he will give the offense a much needed spark and infuse the team with energy. That said, this is clearly a panic move.

 

1. Less than 2 weeks ago, Dombrowski said that Devers would not be rushed and that they would not put that kind of pressure on the kid.

2. The Yankees make a 'blockbuster' move. The media then puts the pressure on Dombrowski to counter.

3. As recently as a few days ago, Dombrowski reportedly stated that the team did not feel that Devers was mentally ready.

4. The Red Sox are in a bit of a funk, losing 2 of 3 to the Angels. Meanwhile, the Yankees win 3 of 4 and gain a game on the Sox.

5. Also in the meantime, Devers makes 4 errors in 7 games.

6. Dombrowski does an about face and calls up Devers.

 

It's a panic move. I'm not saying that Devers is not ready to be called up or that he won't do well, I just don't like the complete about face that the team has done.

 

I think it's aggressive ... but specifically to your points

 

1. Who cares what he says? Of course he protects the kid.

2. It is ever thus

3. See #1.

4. True

5. Small samples - scouting reports seem to indicate he'll be okay. And they are errors - a silly stat mostly to begin with.

6. I don't know how much of an about-face it was. They denied Benintendi's readiness too ... I think the timing worked out here. It is a tad aggressive but there was a good natural window to break the seal.

[Kimmi]

Made sense to do it on this trip - always had. A call up won't ruin a kid - although not every kid can handle it. Moncada - the cake just wasn't baked yet. (yes, whether it ever does is an open question - but the answer was decidedly not 2016)

 

Bringing up a kid early can screw things up for a kid organizationally. There ain't the same time for teaching at the big league level - if the player can't make the adjustments on his own, it's tough sledding. And an org is burning an option year - which reduces their choices in the future. (Wily Mo Pena is a really good case for this)

 

Devers has handled aggressive promotion - he is a good guy to bet on - bat him 9th, let him figure it out over 2 months.

 

I do agree that calling him up on a west coast trip, as opposed to calling him up at home, is a good decision.

 

I don't think calling a kid up too early will ruin him. If this call up 'ruins' his career, then he was not mentally tough enough to be a MLB player to begin with. That said, calling up a kid too early can delay his development.

[sk7326]

Reminds me of Bogaerts. Bogaerts makes some great plays, but also has his share of flubs.

 

I have not seen Devers play, but from what I've read, the left side infield defense now becomes a concern. Marrero was at least able to stabilize that, weak bat and all. If Devers falters defensively, will the improved offense be enough to offset the loss in defense?

 

Really bringing him up NOW is not the panic move. Doing it in September is. Clearly the notion is bat him 9th, platoon him a little - count on his ability to adjust to level (which he has shown consistently since he was 17) to figure stuff out. If anything, this gives Devers an extra long runway. Now fans who expect Mike Schmidt to show up tomorrow will almost certainly be disappointed. But can he show that he belongs, take good at bats, not press too much. Aside from strikeout rate, the numbers themselves early on don't matter that much.

[sk7326]

I do agree that calling him up on a west coast trip, as opposed to calling him up at home, is a good decision.

 

I don't think calling a kid up too early will ruin him. If this call up 'ruins' his career, then he was not mentally tough enough to be a MLB player to begin with. That said, calling up a kid too early can delay his development.

 

I agree - but I also say that a lot of these decisions are made by the players. Devers pushed the org a bit with his play. The errors are a watch item - but scouting seems to indicate he is fine at 3rd. It's not like Moncada being pressed into duty.

[Kimmi]

I think it's aggressive ... but specifically to your points

 

1. Who cares what he says? Of course he protects the kid.

2. It is ever thus

3. See #1.

4. True

5. Small samples - scouting reports seem to indicate he'll be okay. And they are errors - a silly stat mostly to begin with.

6. I don't know how much of an about-face it was. They denied Benintendi's readiness too ... I think the timing worked out here. It is a tad aggressive but there was a good natural window to break the seal.

 

I rarely disagree with you, but I do here. IMO, it was not only aggressive, it was panic. I think Devers is close enough that it's not a stupid move, but I also think the FO would have preferred to give him a bit more development in the minors. If the Sox had won 2 of 3 and the Yankees had lost 3 of 4, would Devers have been called up? I really doubt it.

 

With all that said, I am not unhappy with the call up. As I said in my previous post, I'm excited about it. I have had enough of our frustrating offense. I would much rather have Devers called up than have the Dombrowski overpay for a marginal upgrade.

[cp176]

imo - a panic move would have been to give up any prospects for a one year rental third baseman with Devers sitting at the AAA level. This move makes sense based on team needs. I hope that it works out.

[Kimmi]

Really bringing him up NOW is not the panic move. Doing it in September is. Clearly the notion is bat him 9th, platoon him a little - count on his ability to adjust to level (which he has shown consistently since he was 17) to figure stuff out. If anything, this gives Devers an extra long runway. Now fans who expect Mike Schmidt to show up tomorrow will almost certainly be disappointed. But can he show that he belongs, take good at bats, not press too much. Aside from strikeout rate, the numbers themselves early on don't matter that much.

 

I agree - but I also say that a lot of these decisions are made by the players. Devers pushed the org a bit with his play. The errors are a watch item - but scouting seems to indicate he is fine at 3rd. It's not like Moncada being pressed into duty.

 

I don't disagree that Devers pushed the FO with his play. However, I believe that the FO had no intention of calling him up yet and are reacting to how recent events have unfolded.

 

Also, I don't see a call up in September as a panic move. I see a call up one week before the deadline with the team doing a 180 as one.

[S5Dewey]

I know.. I'm the guy here who keeps harping on defense, defense, defense so I'm still not sold on bringing Devers up. Does it make any sense to put a defensive liability at 3B because he can hit while moving a good glove out of that position because he can't hit? It looks like a wash to me.

 

I understand that DD has probably been beating the bushes trying to find a player that can help this team on both sides of the ball at 3B and it's not easy to do when we don't have any trade chips that we're willing to part with. However, I think we're fooling ourselves is we think that a new 3B with no ML AB's is going to push us over the top.

 

I agree with Kimmi. It seems like a panic move done at a time when there's no need to panic. We are still in first place in the division and we got there while Marrero was at 3B. Were it my decision I'd stay the course, at least until we fall out of first place.

[sk7326]

I don't disagree that Devers pushed the FO with his play. However, I believe that the FO had no intention of calling him up yet and are reacting to how recent events have unfolded.

 

Also, I don't see a call up in September as a panic move. I see a call up one week before the deadline with the team doing a 180 as one.

 

Maybe - I don't see the 180 so much as just basic PR with minor leaguers. I've never heard an exec make an "he's almost ready" discussion vis a vis a farmhand. I think the recent events which moved this along was the trade market - the team would prefer to have found a viable veteran option ... but, given where their 3B position was qualitywise and what the trade market for 3B looked like ... this was probably the best move on the table for 3B.

[sk7326]

I know.. I'm the guy here who keeps harping on defense, defense, defense so I'm still not sold on bringing Devers up. Does it make any sense to put a defensive liability at 3B because he can hit while moving a good glove out of that position because he can't hit? It looks like a wash to me.

 

I understand that DD has probably been beating the bushes trying to find a player that can help this team on both sides of the ball at 3B and it's not easy to do when we don't have any trade chips that we're willing to part with. However, I think we're fooling ourselves is we think that a new 3B with no ML AB's is going to push us over the top.

 

I agree with Kimmi. It seems like a panic move done at a time when there's no need to panic. We are still in first place in the division and we got there while Marrero was at 3B. Were it my decision I'd stay the course, at least until we fall out of first place.

 

I don't think this is expected to put us over the top. The good players playing better has to take that onus. It's to take a position which has been below replacement level and turning it into "something". Given how poor the position has been - being able to be a slightly below average major leaguer would represent a large marginal improvement.

 

Somewhat secondarily - baseball is fun, and the season is a slog even in the best of times. Just something to up that can help. I always remember Buchholz' no-hitter as a sudden burst of sunshine into another good season which had hit a bit of a plateau.

[Jack Flap]

Many people on here who told me over and over that he wouldn't get up here this year.

 

I can't remember if I was one of those people (probably was, because going back a few months I didn't think there was any chance we'd see him before 2018 at the earliest), but if so, props on being right. I try never to count on a kid so young rising from Double-A to the majors so quickly, but we have seen exceptions in special cases (Xander, Mookie), and it's been fun to watch Devers vault himself into that kind of select company with his performance this year.

 

I'm looking forward to watching him in Boston - hopefully for a long time.

[cp176]

Maybe - I don't see the 180 so much as just basic PR with minor leaguers. I've never heard an exec make an "he's almost ready" discussion vis a vis a farmhand. I think the recent events which moved this along was the trade market - the team would prefer to have found a viable veteran option ... but, given where their 3B position was qualitywise and what the trade market for 3B looked like ... this was probably the best move on the table for 3B.

 

I agree. A panic move would have been giving up prospects for a part time rental. Looks to me as though the big decision was to at least try to turn the third base position into something that might give us offensive production or staying the course with decent defense and next to no offense. I'm hoping that Devers will be adequate in the field. I'm pretty sure that he will give us more offense than we have ween to date at third but we shall soon see.

[Emp9]

With our 3B situation thus far, any move looks like a panic move. At least we didnt spend precious limited resources to out bid other teams for Frazier or the like.

 

Now on to a 1B upgrade, and possibly some BP help.

[Kimmi]

Maybe - I don't see the 180 so much as just basic PR with minor leaguers. I've never heard an exec make an "he's almost ready" discussion vis a vis a farmhand. I think the recent events which moved this along was the trade market - the team would prefer to have found a viable veteran option ... but, given where their 3B position was qualitywise and what the trade market for 3B looked like ... this was probably the best move on the table for 3B.

 

I agree that the trade market was not there. The trade market was not there a week ago when Devers was 'not mentally ready'.

 

Then why not just stick with Marrero/Holt/Lin for the time being?

 

There is a lot of pressure and high expectations being put on Devers.

[OH FOY]

The Sandoval situation screwed this all up. I'm glad he's up too. But the Front Office should have promoted him to Triple AAA all the way back to June. It was obvious he could hit Double AA, he needed the experience and learn speed of the game, at a Higher Level. Speed of the game includes quick decisions at that position, so not to hurry yourself. They wasted valuable time for Devers, for Players that wont help the parent club, and they couldn't see it. All about money.

Valuable time was wasted, and now Front Office wants Devers to be savior. Hope he kicks ass.

[illinoisredsox]

No it won't - he is here to play. They don't burn an option year on him without being ready to let him ride. Remember - they brought Benintendi directly from AA. I suspect they were more protective of Devers because of the difference in age and high-intensity experience. (Benintendi in the SEC) But when a kid has brought the batting practice power he showed as a 17 year old into games in Portland - you have to start thinking hard.

 

The AAA assignment was neither here nor there - Devers had nothing left to prove in Portland. And this trip was ALWAYS the sensible time to make the call. Better making your debut on the road than say during a Yankees series at Fenway. Kid can focus on baseball and his new team - with less of the other stuff.

 

Unless he looks lost like Moncada, he's going to get his chance to figure this out ... and it makes sense, none of the other viable options would have that much higher odds of popping. Beltre was the only 3B who made sense, and there were good reasons for both teams to not make that deal.

 

The option year, although can be important, it doesn't look to me as though it something that is going to take precedence over trying to make this team a better team in the eyes of DD. You need to play your best players. In this case, we get a chance to find out what Devers can do. It is surely worth the risk.

 

No option year has been burned yet. Options don't kick in until a player is added to the 40 man roster. If they send him down between now and September 1, then and only then is an option year burned. Otherwise, he still has 3 left.

[sk7326]

I agree that the trade market was not there. The trade market was not there a week ago when Devers was 'not mentally ready'.

 

Then why not just stick with Marrero/Holt/Lin for the time being?

 

There is a lot of pressure and high expectations being put on Devers.

 

I take Dombrowski's words about a 20 year old who is rocketing up the farm far less seriously than you do. I can count on zero hands the number of times I have read an exec pumping up a future call-up, especially a high profile one. It's always deflect or whatever.

 

The trade market was not there last week either - but there was a Yankees series at Fenway. Better getting his feet wet in Seattle. Focus on the baseball and his new team - limit (at least for a little while) the other stuff.

[sk7326]

No option year has been burned yet. Options don't kick in until a player is added to the 40 man roster. If they send him down between now and September 1, then and only then is an option year burned. Otherwise, he still has 3 left.

 

If he's on 25, he has to go on the 40.

[mvp 78]

Really bringing him up NOW is not the panic move. Doing it in September is. Clearly the notion is bat him 9th, platoon him a little - count on his ability to adjust to level (which he has shown consistently since he was 17) to figure stuff out. If anything, this gives Devers an extra long runway. Now fans who expect Mike Schmidt to show up tomorrow will almost certainly be disappointed. But can he show that he belongs, take good at bats, not press too much. Aside from strikeout rate, the numbers themselves early on don't matter that much.

 

I don't think he's going to OPS over 900 in MLB this year. He'll do it someday, but not this year.

[Jack Flap]

I take Dombrowski's words about a 20 year old who is rocketing up the farm far less seriously than you do. I can count on zero hands the number of times I have read an exec pumping up a future call-up, especially a high profile one. It's always deflect or whatever.

 

I seem to remember Dombrowski downplaying Benintendi's readiness last year about this time, and then he was called up a matter of days later. I agree this is nothing that unusual or new.

[mvp 78]

The Sandoval situation screwed this all up. I'm glad he's up too. But the Front Office should have promoted him to Triple AAA all the way back to June. It was obvious he could hit Double AA, he needed the experience and learn speed of the game, at a Higher Level. Speed of the game includes quick decisions at that position, so not to hurry yourself. They wasted valuable time for Devers, for Players that wont help the parent club, and they couldn't see it. All about money.

Valuable time was wasted, and now Front Office wants Devers to be savior. Hope he kicks ass.

 

They like letting their guys compete in the MiLB AS games. That's the only reason he wasn't promoted earlier.