Sox hitting??

[mvp 78]

Andrew Benintendi is the first rookie ever with as many as 5 HR on the road against the Yankees in one season (via @EliasSports).

 

Yankee killer.

[Bellhorn04]

Andrew Benintendi is the first rookie ever with as many as 5 HR on the road against the Yankees in one season (via @EliasSports).

 

Yankee killer.

 

We'll see. Mookie was an 'Orioles killer' last year, but not this year.

[oldtimer]

We'll see. Mookie was an 'Orioles killer' last year, but not this year.

 

Now he's more of a rally killer.

[jacksonianmarch]

It's all about adjustments. We saw it with Judge. We saw it with Sanchez. You'll see it with Beni, Devers, etc. Beni is a damn good ball player.

[moonslav59]

It's all about adjustments. We saw it with Judge. We saw it with Sanchez. You'll see it with Beni, Devers, etc. Beni is a damn good ball player.

 

...good hitter.

 

He is lacking instincts on defense and the base paths, so far.

[Spudboy]

It's interesting that when I mentioned that Beni had defensive deficiencies a couple of months ago I was bashed.

 

Now everyone is talking about it.

 

Lol.

[Northern Star]

Beni is a damn good ball player.

 

Quick, let's trade him for Stanton.

[oldtimer]

...good hitter.

 

He is lacking instincts on defense and the base paths, so far.

 

When compared to JBJ and Betts yes, but he has the tools and will get much better. You keep harping on the base path issue, but JF sent Devers today and he was caught short, much like Beni was before. Clearly today was a hit and run as well and Vaz made a half hearted swing. Don't hear you busting on Devers

[Kimmi]

When compared to JBJ and Betts yes, but he has the tools and will get much better. You keep harping on the base path issue, but JF sent Devers today and he was caught short, much like Beni was before. Clearly today was a hit and run as well and Vaz made a half hearted swing. Don't hear you busting on Devers

 

Beni is fine. He makes some mistakes both defensively and on the bases, but he is young and still learning. At times, he is probably trying to do too much. At the same time, he also makes some good defensive plays and some good baserunning plays. On the whole, he is not hurting the team in either area.

[moonslav59]

When compared to JBJ and Betts yes, but he has the tools and will get much better. You keep harping on the base path issue, but JF sent Devers today and he was caught short, much like Beni was before. Clearly today was a hit and run as well and Vaz made a half hearted swing. Don't hear you busting on Devers

 

I'm thrilled with Beni's season and future outlook.

 

I'm just saying he leads the team in bonehead plays. That's not an easy thing to do with all the stiff competition.

 

Yes, he's young. He should improve in this area, however, much of this depends on instincts, which is something not easily "learned".

 

I do expect him to improve. His assets far outweigh his deficiencies..

[SoxHop]

Beni is fine. He makes some mistakes both defensively and on the bases, but he is young and still learning. At times, he is probably trying to do too much. At the same time, he also makes some good defensive plays and some good baserunning plays. On the whole, he is not hurting the team in either area.

 

People talk about how fast the game is at the highest level. I think Benni has no problem with the speed in the hitting department at the bigs. I'm guessing........ but maybe the speed on the defensive side is too fast for him right now........

 

And what is with his arm....? Is is good? Bad? Does he have accuracy issues? Is the game too fast for him right now???? Does he have bad judgement????? I'ts kind of crazy......

 

I'm super glad we have him........... he is really good and may be extremely good.......

 

but what's with his arm????

[moonslav59]

People talk about how fast the game is at the highest level. I think Benni has no problem with the speed in the hitting department at the bigs. I'm guessing........ but maybe the speed on the defensive side is too fast for him right now........

 

And what is with his arm....? Is is good? Bad? Does he have accuracy issues? Is the game too fast for him right now???? Does he have bad judgement????? I'ts kind of crazy......

 

I'm super glad we have him........... he is really good and may be extremely good.......

 

but what's with his arm????

 

It seems to me, his mind is leading his arm astray.

 

I think he goes to throw before knowing where he wants to throw it and decides midway through his motion. Just guessing, because I'm as confused as you are.

[Maxbialystock]

It's interesting that when I mentioned that Beni had defensive deficiencies a couple of months ago I was bashed.

 

Now everyone is talking about it.

 

Lol.

 

This is me bashing you. I think the criticism is overly harsh. We have one of the best defensive outfields in MLB. Betts and JBJ are the biggest parts of that, but Beni is not a liability and certainly no worse than Ellsbury his first full year when he often played LF. Beni has a better arm.

[Maxbialystock]

It seems to me, his mind is leading his arm astray.

 

I think he goes to throw before knowing where he wants to throw it and decides midway through his motion. Just guessing, because I'm as confused as you are.

 

He has a decent arm, but you could be right preparing to throw--he could be rushing.

[a700hitter]

This is me bashing you. I think the criticism is overly harsh. We have one of the best defensive outfields in MLB. Betts and JBJ are the biggest parts of that, but Beni is not a liability and certainly no worse than Ellsbury his first full year when he often played LF. Beni has a better arm.

He still throws to the wrong base too often -- sometimes airmailing it wildly. He also is still having trouble with caroms off the monster and walls at other parks. These are the areas that he needs to improve. Those are his deficiencies so far. As a natural CFer, he tracks fly balls very well and with good speed. Let's hope those deficiencies improve before they bite us in a big spot. No one is worrying that he is Hanley out there, but he isn't Yaz yet -- regardless of any advanced metrics.

[moonslav59]

I think Beni will be a decent to plus defender someday. His speed helps hide some of his mistakes, much as Ellsbury's did at the start of his career.

 

That being said, just because Beni has been our best and most consistent everyday player all season, doesn't mean he's above criticism.He leads the league in running into outs, he's made many mental defensive blunders as well as physical ones. He's going to get better, but he has issues.

 

I very very happy he's on our team. He may be a big part of smashing the idea that we only have a 3 year window.

[oldtimer]

I'm thrilled with Beni's season and future outlook.

 

I'm just saying he leads the team in bonehead plays. That's not an easy thing to do with all the stiff competition.

 

Yes, he's young. He should improve in this area, however, much of this depends on instincts, which is something not easily "learned".

 

I do expect him to improve. His assets far outweigh his deficiencies..

 

For the length of time he has played, Nunez is right up there on the bonehead plays in basse running. He is no rookie.

[oldtimer]

He has a decent arm, but you could be right preparing to throw--he could be rushing.

 

He has a decent arm as you say. He probably isn't doing that fundamental baseball item of thinking through the what if's of what he will do, where he will throw in each circumstance. That is something he will gain with experience. He really should be there now so perhaps he isn't being told when he makes mistakes. I loved the kid though and just hope we don't break up a good thing with our outfield.

[oldtimer]

I think Bogey is a different story than Betts, in that Bogey seems to have completely lost his confidence, where Betts is still hitting the ball hard at times. Anyone watching Bogey can see his swing mechanics are poor as well as his plate approach. He takes far too many good pitches while swinging at the bad ones and he doesn't make contact enough when he does swing. The guy is a healthy 6'2", 210 pound youngster who should hit with some power but doesn't. Either he is unwilling to take coaching, he isn't getting good coaching or he just isn't that good. I think the latter should be ruled out as he has hit well for periods every year in the past. Betts is chasing balls out of the zone and hitting mostly to center where he doesn't have the power to hit it out. His home run total hasn't moved a lot of late.

 

What to do with Bogey? Ask for him to make fundamental changes? If we trade him will he get the coaching he needs and have an epiphany and get back to his better ways and even show some power? Big risk in trading him.

 

Since several of our guys are in funks we should look for coaching changes. Whether it is Chili Davis, John Farrell or both I don't know but somehow our good talent has to show more or we lose.

[Maxbialystock]

I think Beni will be a decent to plus defender someday. His speed helps hide some of his mistakes, much as Ellsbury's did at the start of his career.

 

That being said, just because Beni has been our best and most consistent everyday player all season, doesn't mean he's above criticism.He leads the league in running into outs, he's made many mental defensive blunders as well as physical ones. He's going to get better, but he has issues.

 

I very very happy he's on our team. He may be a big part of smashing the idea that we only have a 3 year window.

 

Ellsbury is exactly the guy I compare Beni to: speed and hitting and some defensive ability in the outfield. Funny thing, but I remember people, including me, being mesmerized by Ellsbury's speed and decent bat. He got very little criticism except on some of his routes to the ball. His rookie year, age 24, was 2008 when we had just come off our 2d WS win, fans were happy, and here was this 24 year old who stole 50 bases, some of which were dazzling. Wasn't that the year he scored from 2b on a wild pitch?

 

This year the heat is on. The WS win 2013 is ancient history and now regarded as the result of a unique combination of things jelling. The very next year, most of the same guys had a rotten season. 2015 also rotten. 2016 better, but then killed by the Guardians in the ALDS after a very good September run to seize the AL East. This year we want more, and we are far less tolerant of mistakes than in 2008.

 

Consequently, we don't quite see that Benintendi, while he is unlikely ever to steal 50 bases in a season, is having a better year than Ellsbury in 2008 when he was a year older than Beni is this year. Farrell has kept Beni up in the lineup when more experienced players, players who were really good last year, have not been able to deliver. That's pressure way greater than Ellsbury experienced. In 2008 the Sox were 2d in the AL in runs and 6th in dingers. Ellsbury was just the icing on the cake. Farrell has asked Beni for meat and potatoes and, dare I say, a little bit of icing too because he wants the Sox aggressive on the basepaths.

 

On another thread several talksox guys said the Sox aggressive baserunning this year is generally (outside of Boston) regarded as a plus, not as constant running into outs. The Sox are dead last in the AL in dingers, but 5th in doubles, and not all of those doubles were safe or guaranteed--some of them were earned. The green monster has converted many would be doubles off the wall into outs at 2b. And, guess what? The decision to go or not to go is split second and demands what the Germans call fingerspitzengefuhl and we call exceptional situation awareness. I think Beni is very aware, but is still adapting to the better arms and experienced situational awareness of MLB defenses.

 

We might not like everything he does in LF, but I would like anyone to name another regular Sox leftfielder (that's Beni's destiny until JBJ leaves, which is unlikely) who could play CF even better than LF. Instead of comparing him to Betts and JBJ, compare him to last year's LF and get back to me on that. The two best Sox leftfielders in the John Henry era have been Manny Ramirez and Jason Bay (who in 2009 had 15 assists and 0 errors--impressive). Jason Bay, who lasted just one full season (and 2 months of the year before), is the only Sox leftfielder in the John Henry who could both hit well--the first requirement of a Sox leftfielder--and field decently. Beni is the 2d. Manny of course was the best overall LF because of that great bat.

 

This has been a pressure-filled season since April, and the pressure if anything keeps mounting. Here in September while other, more experienced--and that does help in MLB--players are flailing, 23 year old Beni is manning up when it counts. So me, I'll take that and not sweat the rookie mistakes because, all things considered, this is one heckuva rookie (and mostly under the radar at that).

Edited September 3, 2017 by Maxbialystock

[moonslav59]

For the length of time he has played, Nunez is right up there on the bonehead plays in basse running. He is no rookie.

 

True, as is HRam and others.

[moonslav59]

...Consequently, we don't quite see that Benintendi, while he is unlikely ever to steal 50 bases in a season, is having a better year than Ellsbury in 2008 when he was a year older than Beni is this year....

 

I see Beni having a very very good year. I'd say slightly better than Ellsbury's 2008 season.

 

I'd value it much more highly without all the mental mistakes. While one could argue taking the wrong route to a fly ball as Ellsbury did early in his career is a mental mistake, I don't see that as being as egregious as throwing to the wrong place, running from 2B to 3B on a ground ball hit in front of you, and several other shockingly dumb plays.

 

I'm not bashing Beni. He's young and inexperienced. I'm certain he will improve (as JE did) in these areas.

 

I'll say it again, although I feel it does not need to be said, Beni has been our best and most consistent everyday player on this team-

despite the mistakes.

[Kimmi]

I'm thrilled with Beni's season and future outlook.

 

I'm just saying he leads the team in bonehead plays. That's not an easy thing to do with all the stiff competition.

 

Yes, he's young. He should improve in this area, however, much of this depends on instincts, which is something not easily "learned".

 

I do expect him to improve. His assets far outweigh his deficiencies..

 

Beni's overall baserunning value is +1.3 runs. Broken down by components, he is -0.5 in extra bases taken (1/2 of a run), +0.3 in GIDP runs, and +1.5 in stolen base runs.

 

His overall defense, including his play in CF is +4 in DRS and +1.5 in UZR/150. The 'ARM' component of his defense is either +2 or -0.9, depending on which metric you look at.

 

So yes, Beni does make some mistakes. But even with those mistakes, his overall baserunning and defense are still slightly positive. It's not like the year we had Hanley in LF. Beni is fine. He'll learn.

[Bellhorn04]

...Consequently, we don't quite see that Benintendi, while he is unlikely ever to steal 50 bases in a season, is having a better year than Ellsbury in 2008 when he was a year older than Beni is this year....

 

I see Beni having a very very good year. I'd say slightly better than Ellsbury's 2008 season.

 

I'd value it much more highly without all the mental mistakes. While one could argue taking the wrong route to a fly ball as Ellsbury did early in his career is a mental mistake, I don't see that as being as egregious as throwing to the wrong place, running from 2B to 3B on a ground ball hit in front of you, and several other shockingly dumb plays.

 

I'm not bashing Beni. He's young and inexperienced. I'm certain he will improve (as JE did) in these areas.

 

I'll say it again, although I feel it does not need to be said, Beni has been our best and most consistent everyday player on this team-

despite the mistakes.

 

How does this fit in with your general belief that Farrell is the one to blame for the team's excessive number of mental mistakes?

[Kimmi]

People talk about how fast the game is at the highest level. I think Benni has no problem with the speed in the hitting department at the bigs. I'm guessing........ but maybe the speed on the defensive side is too fast for him right now........

 

And what is with his arm....? Is is good? Bad? Does he have accuracy issues? Is the game too fast for him right now???? Does he have bad judgement????? I'ts kind of crazy......

 

I'm super glad we have him........... he is really good and may be extremely good.......

 

but what's with his arm????

 

Personally, I think it boils down to him still being young and just making rookie mistakes. He has handled himself pretty well, so we tend to forget that there is really a lot of pressure on him day in and day out. I feel like most of the time, he is probably trying too hard or trying to do too much. It's a learning curve. He'll learn.

[Kimmi]

This is me bashing you. I think the criticism is overly harsh. We have one of the best defensive outfields in MLB. Betts and JBJ are the biggest parts of that, but Beni is not a liability and certainly no worse than Ellsbury his first full year when he often played LF. Beni has a better arm.

 

Beni is far from being a liability defensively. He does not match up to the standards set by Betts and Bradley, but who does?

[Kimmi]

I think Beni will be a decent to plus defender someday. His speed helps hide some of his mistakes, much as Ellsbury's did at the start of his career.

 

That being said, just because Beni has been our best and most consistent everyday player all season, doesn't mean he's above criticism.He leads the league in running into outs, he's made many mental defensive blunders as well as physical ones. He's going to get better, but he has issues.

 

I very very happy he's on our team. He may be a big part of smashing the idea that we only have a 3 year window.

 

Criticism is fair. I just think in Beni's case the criticism is a little harsher than it should be.

[OH FOY]

If you go from Double AA to the Majors, expect mental mistakes. Just have to have patience. Kimmi is right.

[Kimmi]

He has a decent arm as you say. He probably isn't doing that fundamental baseball item of thinking through the what if's of what he will do, where he will throw in each circumstance. That is something he will gain with experience. He really should be there now so perhaps he isn't being told when he makes mistakes. I loved the kid though and just hope we don't break up a good thing with our outfield.

 

Well said oldtimer.

[Kimmi]

If you go from Double AA to the Majors, expect mental mistakes. Just have to have patience. Kimmi is right.

 

Good point about making the jump from AA to the majors. People like to downplay the importance of spending time in AAA, and maybe from a physical standpoint, they're right. But experience is the best way to learn and correct those mental mistakes.