Sox hitting??

[Nick]

EE as our FT 1Bman scares the hell out of me. He's best utilized as a DH and we already have $41M spent on DH-only types: HRam & Pablito.

 

Same with those who said we should have signed Holliday. His only spot on this team would have been DH and 4th OF'er. Plus, he'd have made Young's role on this team a waste of money.

 

If we were going to spend big on a bat last winter, clearly 3B was the slot to fill.

 

Plus, had we signed EE, Beltran or Holliday instead of Moreland, we'd have less cap space to get someone this summer.

 

The downturn in production of Ramirez this year -- his slugging percentage is just .405 -- suggests that perhaps Moreland and youngster Sam Travis could coexist on the Red Sox roster next season and beyond.

 

Moreland deflected the idea of negotiating a contract extension during the season -- “Right now we’ve got more important things to take care of,” he said -- but gushed about his experience with Boston so far.

 

“I loved it from the minute that the Red Sox called,” he said. “It has probably exceeded my expectations as far as the group of guys, an unbelievable group of guys. I’m excited about the next few months.”

 

I'm not only one thinking this scenario...

[Maxbialystock]

This is still a pretty good thread now on page 37, but I gotta say I'm surprised at the number of people who say we can fix the hitting by dumping Pablo. What's to dump? The guy has played in just 30 of 69 games to date, what with injuries and other things. And of those 30 games at least a couple were as DH. I am as anti-Sandoval as the next guy, but he is a significant investment, he's still only 30, he was pretty good on the West Coast, and just maybe he needs more at bats. Meanwhile Farrell has other remedies--Marrero, Rutledge, et al.

 

This current road trip has me thinking that Kimmi just might be right, that this lineup absent Ortiz just might be able to repair itself. I mean, was that great last night when Betts, Pedey, and Bogie came out swinging or was that great? To hell with Bill James and the philosophy of "take as many pitches as possible."

 

The guy who pisses me off is Hanley. He basically no longer has to play 1B, but his hitting is down and his baserunning is getting worse and worse. When he is at bat, he looks like a guy trying to get exercise as much as someone trying to make solid contact with the ball. For all of his apparent flakiness in the field, Manny Ramirez was a focused pro at the plate who knew what to look for and what to do about it. HanRam looks borderline oblivious at the plate. What did John Daly say? Grip it and rip it? I think he is hitting some especially long dingers this year, apparently in the belief that you get double credit for any that go 425 feet or more.

 

Meanwhile, there's a bunch of guys who have their ups and downs but overall are pretty darn good (but could be better of course): Betts, Pedey, Bogie, Beni, Moreland, JBJ, and now and then Leon or Vazquez. I can live with one problem at 3b but not with a second problem at DH.

[a700hitter]

Hanley is having a terrible season for him. There is no consistency at all.

[Kimmi]

This is still a pretty good thread now on page 37, but I gotta say I'm surprised at the number of people who say we can fix the hitting by dumping Pablo. What's to dump? The guy has played in just 30 of 69 games to date, what with injuries and other things. And of those 30 games at least a couple were as DH. I am as anti-Sandoval as the next guy, but he is a significant investment, he's still only 30, he was pretty good on the West Coast, and just maybe he needs more at bats. Meanwhile Farrell has other remedies--Marrero, Rutledge, et al.

 

This current road trip has me thinking that Kimmi just might be right, that this lineup absent Ortiz just might be able to repair itself. I mean, was that great last night when Betts, Pedey, and Bogie came out swinging or was that great? To hell with Bill James and the philosophy of "take as many pitches as possible."

 

The guy who pisses me off is Hanley. He basically no longer has to play 1B, but his hitting is down and his baserunning is getting worse and worse. When he is at bat, he looks like a guy trying to get exercise as much as someone trying to make solid contact with the ball. For all of his apparent flakiness in the field, Manny Ramirez was a focused pro at the plate who knew what to look for and what to do about it. HanRam looks borderline oblivious at the plate. What did John Daly say? Grip it and rip it? I think he is hitting some especially long dingers this year, apparently in the belief that you get double credit for any that go 425 feet or more.

 

Meanwhile, there's a bunch of guys who have their ups and downs but overall are pretty darn good (but could be better of course): Betts, Pedey, Bogie, Beni, Moreland, JBJ, and now and then Leon or Vazquez. I can live with one problem at 3b but not with a second problem at DH.

 

Although Pablo has performed poorly, he has not been the problem. As you said, he has played very little, and the team has a better winning % when he plays than when he doesn't.

 

Also, adding a bat at 3B is not going to solve any offensive problems if the rest of the offense continues to sputter like it has been.

 

As I see it, the fix for this offense is to get the guys already on the team to start performing up to expectations.

[moonslav59]

The downturn in production of Ramirez this year -- his slugging percentage is just .405 -- suggests that perhaps Moreland and youngster Sam Travis could coexist on the Red Sox roster next season and beyond.

 

Moreland deflected the idea of negotiating a contract extension during the season -- “Right now we’ve got more important things to take care of,” he said -- but gushed about his experience with Boston so far.

 

“I loved it from the minute that the Red Sox called,” he said. “It has probably exceeded my expectations as far as the group of guys, an unbelievable group of guys. I’m excited about the next few months.”

 

I'm not only one thinking this scenario...

 

Moreland will probably want too much money next year for us to be in hot pursuit of his services.

 

Depending on Holt's health, and maybe even if Holt is 100% okay next year, we might prefer to sign a player who can play 3B, 1B and LF.

 

With Young and Moreland becoming free agents and 3 top prospects (Deverss, Travis & Swihart) looking to be ML ready by opening day 2018, I doubt we bring back either of our free agnts-to-be.

[moonslav59]

This is still a pretty good thread now on page 37, but I gotta say I'm surprised at the number of people who say we can fix the hitting by dumping Pablo. What's to dump? The guy has played in just 30 of 69 games to date, what with injuries and other things. And of those 30 games at least a couple were as DH. I am as anti-Sandoval as the next guy, but he is a significant investment, he's still only 30, he was pretty good on the West Coast, and just maybe he needs more at bats. Meanwhile Farrell has other remedies--Marrero, Rutledge, et al.

 

This current road trip has me thinking that Kimmi just might be right, that this lineup absent Ortiz just might be able to repair itself. I mean, was that great last night when Betts, Pedey, and Bogie came out swinging or was that great? To hell with Bill James and the philosophy of "take as many pitches as possible."

 

The guy who pisses me off is Hanley. He basically no longer has to play 1B, but his hitting is down and his baserunning is getting worse and worse. When he is at bat, he looks like a guy trying to get exercise as much as someone trying to make solid contact with the ball. For all of his apparent flakiness in the field, Manny Ramirez was a focused pro at the plate who knew what to look for and what to do about it. HanRam looks borderline oblivious at the plate. What did John Daly say? Grip it and rip it? I think he is hitting some especially long dingers this year, apparently in the belief that you get double credit for any that go 425 feet or more.

 

Meanwhile, there's a bunch of guys who have their ups and downs but overall are pretty darn good (but could be better of course): Betts, Pedey, Bogie, Beni, Moreland, JBJ, and now and then Leon or Vazquez. I can live with one problem at 3b but not with a second problem at DH.

 

Hanley's injury may be the reason he has basically sucked this year.

[moonslav59]

Although Pablo has performed poorly, he has not been the problem. As you said, he has played very little, and the team has a better winning % when he plays than when he doesn't.

 

Also, adding a bat at 3B is not going to solve any offensive problems if the rest of the offense continues to sputter like it has been.

 

As I see it, the fix for this offense is to get the guys already on the team to start performing up to expectations.

 

So, is it at least partially "on the manager" that players haven't performed as expected?

[Station 13]

There is no fixed for this offense with its current cast. I keep hoping Hanley would get hot as he did last summer. He seems worse than 2015 right now.

[cp176]

This is still a pretty good thread now on page 37, but I gotta say I'm surprised at the number of people who say we can fix the hitting by dumping Pablo. What's to dump? The guy has played in just 30 of 69 games to date, what with injuries and other things. And of those 30 games at least a couple were as DH. I am as anti-Sandoval as the next guy, but he is a significant investment, he's still only 30, he was pretty good on the West Coast, and just maybe he needs more at bats. Meanwhile Farrell has other remedies--Marrero, Rutledge, et al.

 

This current road trip has me thinking that Kimmi just might be right, that this lineup absent Ortiz just might be able to repair itself. I mean, was that great last night when Betts, Pedey, and Bogie came out swinging or was that great? To hell with Bill James and the philosophy of "take as many pitches as possible."

 

The guy who pisses me off is Hanley. He basically no longer has to play 1B, but his hitting is down and his baserunning is getting worse and worse. When he is at bat, he looks like a guy trying to get exercise as much as someone trying to make solid contact with the ball. For all of his apparent flakiness in the field, Manny Ramirez was a focused pro at the plate who knew what to look for and what to do about it. HanRam looks borderline oblivious at the plate. What did John Daly say? Grip it and rip it? I think he is hitting some especially long dingers this year, apparently in the belief that you get double credit for any that go 425 feet or more.

 

Meanwhile, there's a bunch of guys who have their ups and downs but overall are pretty darn good (but could be better of course): Betts, Pedey, Bogie, Beni, Moreland, JBJ, and now and then Leon or Vazquez. I can live with one problem at 3b but not with a second problem at DH.

 

Pablo might not be the problem but Pablo not playing as expected has created the problem. Not only have we been left without his ability to field the position we also are playing without his bat. The fielding aspect of this can be dealt with the hitting part not so much. We need the productive bat greatly.

[Slasher9]

so, is it at least partially "on the manager" that players haven't performed as expected?

 

fire chili!!!

[Slasher9]

Pablo might not be the problem but Pablo not playing as expected has created the problem. Not only have we been left without his ability to field the position we also are playing without his bat. The fielding aspect of this can be dealt with the hitting part not so much. We need the productive bat greatly.

 

his fielding has been fine. his hitting has been fine. he needs to be in the lineup everyday for a good stretch to see what we have. it's as simple as that.

[cp176]

his fielding has been fine. his hitting has been fine. he needs to be in the lineup everyday for a good stretch to see what we have. it's as simple as that.

 

agree - I just wish that it could be in anybody elses lineup other than ours. Advanced metrics say that he can't play in ours anyway. He can't bat against a lefty because the data says he can't do it and he can't be in the field when we have a lefty on the mound (mostly everyday) because the data says he can't do it. He just needs to be in a better situation for him. He would probably flourish!

[SoxHop]

How many problem players can you have before it is a problem? Probably two at most to not drop in the standings. And I think two to three would be league average.

[devildavid]

Hanley's injury may be the reason he has basically sucked this year.

 

That has been Hanley's main problem starting with his first year with the Sox. They never should have signed a player at his age with his injury history. I was a Hanley skeptic from day one. At least we got one good season out of him in 2016.

[devildavid]

So, is it at least partially "on the manager" that players haven't performed as expected?

 

I would say yes. Player performances reflect on the manager's ability to get the best out of them.

[devildavid]

his fielding has been fine. his hitting has been fine. he needs to be in the lineup everyday for a good stretch to see what we have. it's as simple as that.

 

If by "fine" you mean sub-par I agree. Pablo at this point in his career is not a good fielder or hitter. All the weaknesses he always had as a player are all he has left. The last thing the Sox need is to have him in the lineup. We know what we have and it is a bad contract for a player in steep decline.

[S5Dewey]

(Pablo's) fielding has been fine. his hitting has been fine. he needs to be in the lineup everyday for a good stretch to see what we have. it's as simple as that.

 

Exactly. I see no problem here. After all, the team has a better record when he's on the field than when he's on the bench. Put him out there. Leave him there. What could possibly go wrong? After all, the statistics don't lie!

[Slasher9]

If by "fine" you mean sub-par I agree. Pablo at this point in his career is not a good fielder or hitter. All the weaknesses he always had as a player are all he has left. The last thing the Sox need is to have him in the lineup. We know what we have and it is a bad contract for a player in steep decline.

 

by fine...i mean fine. sub par to what? league avg? mike schmidt? so what. believe it or not....it is actually OK to have a player that is "below league average". especially when the replacement choices (rutt) aren't any better. do you want to trade more prospects for another 3b?

the contract is what it is at this point. and because of it...he needs to play everyday. he lost the weight in the offseason. he deserves the opportunity. sticking him in and out of the lineup is not the answer. i completely disagree with JF on this one. he should be in the lineup everyday for the next 5 weeks to see how he does. righty, lefty, whatever. IMO.

[devildavid]

by fine...i mean fine. sub par to what? league avg? mike schmidt? so what. believe it or not....it is actually OK to have a player that is "below league average". especially when the replacement choices (rutt) aren't any better. do you want to trade more prospects for another 3b?

the contract is what it is at this point. and because of it...he needs to play everyday. he lost the weight in the offseason. he deserves the opportunity. sticking him in and out of the lineup is not the answer. i completely disagree with JF on this one. he should be in the lineup everyday for the next 5 weeks to see how he does. righty, lefty, whatever. IMO.

 

He is below replacement level.

 

JF is trying to win games, not see what Pablo can do. Pablo has earned nothing. Platooning with Rutledge is good enough for him and best for the team.

[mvp 78]

He is below replacement level.

 

JF is trying to win games, not see what Pablo can do. Pablo has earned nothing. Platooning with Rutledge is good enough for him and best for the team.

 

Best for the team would be promoting Devers.

[S5Dewey]

Best for the team would be promoting Devers.

 

I hear you, but I'm torn on this one. We need someone competent at 3B but at the same time I'm always concerned about bringing someone up who may not be ready. I tend to take a longer view on things and if we find he's not ready we've burned up an option year if we send him back down.

 

I'd rather give him a few weeks in AAA to see how he hits their pitching and then make a decision as to whether or not to bring him up.

[Slasher9]

He is below replacement level.

 

JF is trying to win games, not see what Pablo can do. Pablo has earned nothing. Platooning with Rutledge is good enough for him and best for the team.

tell me what team has all 8 position starters that are above replacement level?

IMO - if JF wants to win more games he needs to insert Panda in the lineup for everygame the next 5 weeks.

[cp176]

Best for the team would be promoting Devers.

 

I'm going to be serious here just for a second or two. I have not seen Devers play at all but what he is doing is starting to make it looks ridiculous that he is still in Portland. I get all the stuff that people are saying about as long as we are where we are in the standings - why rush him up. I get that but I still think that if he is the answer to what is going on at third then he deserves to be there - for sure at least in Pawtucket . I don't concern myself at all with the size of Sandoval's contract and I'm not too sure the front office is all that concerned about it either. They are all overpaid in my opinion for what they do. I don't care if the Sox use their collective money foolishly - I just want to watch the best team that they can put out there. If they are going to play the game of only playing him when statistical data deems it wise, there won't be any time to play him. Regardless of the company line, doesn't it kind of look as though JF really does not want him out there at all?

[Slasher9]

Best for the team would be promoting Devers.

 

i'm not opposed to this. but if it's done, we have to be ALL IN. he needs to play everyday. not platoon. and if this is done, Panda needs to be gone. so that means DFA and eat his entire salary or trade him and eat his entire salary.

[cp176]

i'm not opposed to this. but if it's done, we have to be ALL IN. he needs to play everyday. not platoon. and if this is done, Panda needs to be gone. so that means DFA and eat his entire salary or trade him and eat his entire salary.

 

I am so sick of the total over play of this platooning s*** it is making me want to start drinking. Wait - already do that. Nothing seems to be done in moderation anymore. At what age I wonder do people now think that it becomes impossible for certain players to hit from both side of the plate?

[mvp 78]

I hear you, but I'm torn on this one. We need someone competent at 3B but at the same time I'm always concerned about bringing someone up who may not be ready. I tend to take a longer view on things and if we find he's not ready we've burned up an option year if we send him back down.

 

I'd rather give him a few weeks in AAA to see how he hits their pitching and then make a decision as to whether or not to bring him up.

 

May not be ready? He's clearly overqualified for AA right now. I don't know why they didn't at least bring him up to AAA.

[mvp 78]

i'm not opposed to this. but if it's done, we have to be ALL IN. he needs to play everyday. not platoon. and if this is done, Panda needs to be gone. so that means DFA and eat his entire salary or trade him and eat his entire salary.

 

I agree. He needs to play everyday and at least be given the shot to adjust to MLB LHP.

[mvp 78]

He can't be any worse than Rutledge or Pablo. He just can't be...

[moonslav59]

I'd tell Pablito, "You're going to start against all RHPs for the next few weeks. Show us what you got."

 

I'd promote Devers to AAA and Chavis to AA.

 

 

 

 

[harmony]

tell me what team has all 8 position starters that are above replacement level?

IMO - if JF wants to win more games he needs to insert Panda in the lineup for everygame the next 5 weeks.

The Houston Astros have nine position players, who have played at least 45 games each this year, with fWAR above replacement level:

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/teams/astros

 

The Washington National might be even better:

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/teams/nationals

 

The Seattle Mariners have nine position players with fWAR of at least 1.0 this year:

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/teams/mariners

 

... but are below replacement level at first base.