2017 Spring Training Thread - Everything Sox ST

[Kimmi]

You know of course that Lou Boudreau created to a shift against Ted Williams, who was very much a pull hitter. He didn't bunt, but did tinker with hitting to LF. I think in the end he pretty much stayed with pulling the ball and relying on line drives finding holes in the defense. I think today's shifts are probably better designed and based on real hitting patterns, so the bunt the possible fix.

 

I think a well-timed bunt base hit can be very effective. If it's overused or used in the wrong situation, it loses its effectiveness.

[Thunder]

AnybodY getting nervous about Thornberg, has really struggled his first two outings. Velocity is still there imagine he has to get his mechanics in synch. Has a history of bad springs.

 

I feel confident that he'll right the ship over the next few weeks, but I still don't think we should have given up Shaw for him. But, hey, prove me wrong.

[Spudboy]

It is so encouraging to see that Henry Owens is at the top of his game.

[Fisk]

It is so encouraging to see that Henry Owens is at the top of his game.

 

He's starting off right where he left off at least he's consistent.

[S5Dewey]

I get what you're saying with > 30% being a success, but that's not necessarily true. If all you're concerned with is getting on base, then a bunt single is as good as a line drive hit which is as good as a walk. However, if you're sacrificing extra base hits in too many of those at bats, the result could be a net loss.

I hear and understand what you're saying, that a double is better than a bunt single. I sometimes approach baseball from the back side - the value of not making outs.

[Spudboy]

He's starting off right where he left off at least he's consistent.

 

Yes. We must all concede that.

 

I'm just hopeful that he can eventually develop a MLB quality pitch. Just one, mind you.

 

For the record, I don't hate on the kid. I really want him to be good. But the clock is rapidly approaching midnight.

[Spudboy]

I hear and understand what you're saying, that a double is better than a bunt single. I sometimes approach baseball from the back side - the value of not making outs.

 

Nothing wrong with that idea. It's what the game is all about.

[Thunder]

It is so encouraging to see that Henry Owens is at the top of his game.

 

We can send him to Pawtucket for eternity, right? Or is that not enough punishment? I think Greenville or Salem would be nice, especially this time of year.

[oldtimer]

I hear and understand what you're saying, that a double is better than a bunt single. I sometimes approach baseball from the back side - the value of not making outs.

 

Especially true for the table setters. Guys who can get on base with walks and singles and have the speed to put pressure on the pitcher are really valuable. Bunting can force the defense out of an extreme shift so raises the batters chances for that reason as well. The American league has gotten away from small ball but that doesn't mean it couldn't stage a comeback. It certainly adds to the games excitement. JF doesn't impress me as a guy who favors small ball though.

[notin]

You know of course that Lou Boudreau created to a shift against Ted Williams, who was very much a pull hitter. He didn't bunt, but did tinker with hitting to LF. I think in the end he pretty much stayed with pulling the ball and relying on line drives finding holes in the defense. I think today's shifts are probably better designed and based on real hitting patterns, so the bunt the possible fix.

 

The shift was around long before Boudreaux "created" it. It was first used in the 1920's against lefty slugger Fred "Cy" Williams (making the name Williams Shift still accurate.)

 

The idea was not really to get the extra defender on the pull side so much as it was to create a psychological effect on the hitter, even when Boudreau revived it. Which is why hitters like Ted and Cy Williams didn't bunt to defeat it.

 

Some hitters, notably Robinson Cano, have successfully beaten the shift with bunts. And even managed to bunt for a double on occasion. But this is really falling into the exact situation the opposition wants - taking the bat out of the hands of thr better hitters.

 

I like the way Mookie Betts handled the shift. When is on, steal second and keep running until you get to third. ...

Edited March 2, 2017 by notin

[User Name]

^All good points. The fact that having a slugger bunt is not only a low percentage proposition but also pretty much negates the possibility of an XBH is, again, why hitters keep drag bunts in their back pockets instead of doing it with any sort of consistency to beat a shift. The shift can't beat a HR.

[Kimmi]

I hear and understand what you're saying, that a double is better than a bunt single. I sometimes approach baseball from the back side - the value of not making outs.

 

I completely understand the value of not making outs. With your better hitters, however, over the long run, sacrificing homeruns, triples, and doubles too often in order to avoid making an out will result in less value than avoiding an out. I don't know what the 'break even' point would be,

[Northern Star]

I completely understand the value of not making outs. With your better hitters, however, over the long run, sacrificing homeruns, triples, and doubles too often in order to avoid making an out will result in less value than avoiding an out. I don't know what the 'break even' point would be,

 

Read that as not making out.

[S5Dewey]

 

Some hitters, notably Robinson Cano, have successfully beaten the shift with bunts. And even managed to bunt for a double on occasion. But this is really falling into the exact situation the opposition wants - taking the bat out of the hands of thr better hitters.

 

I like the way Mookie Betts handled the shift. When is on, steal second and keep running until you get to third. ...

 

I see it as being exactly the opposite - hitting into the shift is playing into the plans of the opposition. The opposition is shifting to put more defensive players in the area where they anticipate the ball being hit so "hit it where they ain't".

 

Bunting may cost a team a couple of HR's and a few more Xtra BH's over the run of a season but it will also prevent a lot of outs being made.

 

The key is in doing it situatonally.

[notin]

I see it as being exactly the opposite - hitting into the shift is playing into the plans of the opposition. The opposition is shifting to put more defensive players in the area where they anticipate the ball being hit so "hit it where they ain't".

 

Bunting may cost a team a couple of HR's and a few more Xtra BH's over the run of a season but it will also prevent a lot of outs being made.

 

The key is in doing it situatonally.

 

And you see it exactly how Boudreaux wanted Ted Williams to see it.

 

But really, the effect wad supposed to be psychological. Read up on it. One extra fielder on half of a huge baseball field does make a difference, but forcing a player to hit the ball elewhere as opposed to simply letting him play makes for a much bigger difference. ......

[cp176]

I see it as being exactly the opposite - hitting into the shift is playing into the plans of the opposition. The opposition is shifting to put more defensive players in the area where they anticipate the ball being hit so "hit it where they ain't".

 

Bunting may cost a team a couple of HR's and a few more Xtra BH's over the run of a season but it will also prevent a lot of outs being made.

 

The key is in doing it situatonally.

 

I agree totally with you. I also think that bunting is an art. Fewer and fewer players seem to truly be able to even get the ball on the ground. I'm pretty sure that it isn't something that is as valued as it was a few years ago. Notin mentioned Ted here. Ted saw shifts as a form of cheating and refused to go away from them. Not only was Ted in my opinion the greatest hitter of all time he was also one of the most stubborn individuals who has ever played the game. If Ted had wanted to go away from the shift, he would have. When I watched him, I kind of wondered why he didn't try to go away from the shift more often but normally he just showed us all why he was unique and didn't need to worry too much about them.

[cp176]

And you see it exactly how Boudreaux wanted Ted Williams to see it.

 

But really, the effect wad supposed to be psychological. Read up on it. One extra fielder on half of a huge baseball field does make a difference, but forcing a player to hit the ball elewhere as opposed to simply letting him play makes for a much bigger difference. ......

 

 

You think Boudreaux's idea of a shift had an affect on Ted? Pissed him off for sure but I don't think they really bothered his production much.

[Kimmi]

I completely understand the value of not making outs. With your better hitters, however, over the long run, sacrificing homeruns, triples, and doubles too often in order to avoid making an out will result in less value than avoiding an out. I don't know what the 'break even' point would be,

 

Not the exact breaking point I was looking for, but stat geek extraordinaire Tangotiger found that, in order to break even, the best hitters, like Papi, would have to be successful in their bunt attempts 45% of the time if they are bunting with 0 outs and bases empty. With 2 outs and bases empty, they would have to be successful 50% of the time.

 

An average hitter would have to be successful 40% of the time with 0 outs and bases loaded. A poor hitter 35% of the time.

 

Those percentages increase with any men on base.

[Kimmi]

I see it as being exactly the opposite - hitting into the shift is playing into the plans of the opposition. The opposition is shifting to put more defensive players in the area where they anticipate the ball being hit so "hit it where they ain't".

 

Bunting may cost a team a couple of HR's and a few more Xtra BH's over the run of a season but it will also prevent a lot of outs being made.

 

The key is in doing it situatonally.

 

That's all I've been saying. Use it in the right situations - don't overuse it.

[Fisk]

Well some good news out of spring training Carson smith is throwing off the mound this week. Hopefully no setbacks and he's ready by June.

[S5Dewey]

Not the exact breaking point I was looking for, but stat geek extraordinaire Tangotiger found that, in order to break even, the best hitters, like Papi, would have to be successful in their bunt attempts 45% of the time if they are bunting with 0 outs and bases empty. With 2 outs and bases empty, they would have to be successful 50% of the time.

 

An average hitter would have to be successful 40% of the time with 0 outs and bases loaded. A poor hitter 35% of the time.

 

Those percentages increase with any men on base.

 

That seems like it should be doable, considering that there are no defenders in the areas he's bunting toward.

[bosoxmal]

I see they have Swihart in to -days lineup. Wrong spot in the order (9th) and wrong spot on the field ©

[mvp 78]

I see they have Swihart in to -days lineup. Wrong spot in the order (9th) and wrong spot on the field ©

 

He's a #9 hitter right now after a year off. The best spot for him professionally as well as for the organization is at C.

[Slasher9]

S5 - when you get a chance please post up one of those epic Spring Training observations posts you do.

thanks.

[S5Dewey]

S5 - when you get a chance please post up one of those epic Spring Training observations posts you do.

thanks.

Thanks. I...er...blew off yesterday's game to go to the ASun conference championship where I saw a monstrous dunk. If you haven't seen it yet, type 'FGCU dunk' into your browser.

A 6'3" FGCU player went over a 7 ' North Florida player with a 2 handed tomahawk dunk that temporarily shut down the shot clock at both ends of the court. It's worth watching if you haven't seen it.

[FredLynn]

I see they have Swihart in to -days lineup. Wrong spot in the order (9th) and wrong spot on the field ©

 

Swihart was 1 for 3 today. He is now batting .308 in spring training in a small sample size. He proper position is catcher. Sometimes it takes a while for catchers to become excellent defensively. The Sox should exercise patience with him at that position.

[Kimmi]

That seems like it should be doable, considering that there are no defenders in the areas he's bunting toward.

 

If they practiced it, it should be doable. The thing is, most of the better power hitters aren't typically spending a lot of time practicing their bunting.

[Nick]

Swihart was 1 for 3 today. He is now batting .308 in spring training in a small sample size. He proper position is catcher. Sometimes it takes a while for catchers to become excellent defensively. The Sox should exercise patience with him at that position.

 

I guess my question to OP is at what position does he have the best chance to start?

[TylerD]

I guess my question to OP is at what position does he have the best chance to start?

 

I still think he can be a fine catch and can split time as a catcher. I know I'm on my own but I don't see where else he really fits.

[Nick]

I still think he can be a fine catch and can split time as a catcher. I know I'm on my own but I don't see where else he really fits.

 

I agree with you 100%...