2017 Spring Training Thread - Everything Sox ST

[Kimmi]

I don't know if this has been posted elsewhere, but two thoughts:

 

1. Early preseason starts have Porcello lined up to be our Opening Day starter, which is the right call, with Price, then Sale following, which is also the right call.

 

2. I'm not sure if I'm going to like Farrell's philosophy of bunting for base hits to beat the shift. It has merit and is the right idea if used properly, but I'm afraid the approach might be overused.

[Fisk]

I don't know if this has been posted elsewhere, but two thoughts:

 

1. Early preseason starts have Porcello lined up to be our Opening Day starter, which is the right call, with Price, then Sale following, which is also the right call.

 

2. I'm not sure if I'm going to like Farrell's philosophy of bunting for base hits to beat the shift. It has merit and is the right idea if used properly, but I'm afraid the approach might be overused.

 

I agree with you on the starting rotation setup porcello being the reigning Cy Young winner deserves the nod and Sale being the newcomer should be after Price, which might relieve some of the pressure on him.

 

I hate the sacrifice bunt in most situations, but I do like the idea of it being used to beat the shifts if it lessons the shifts put on. Especially for JBJ.

[Kimmi]

I agree with you on the starting rotation setup porcello being the reigning Cy Young winner deserves the nod and Sale being the newcomer should be after Price, which might relieve some of the pressure on him.

 

I hate the sacrifice bunt in most situations, but I do like the idea of it being used to beat the shifts if it lessons the shifts put on. Especially for JBJ.

 

I also hate the sac bunt in almost every situation.

 

As far as bunting for a hit against the shift, as I said, the strategy has merit if used correctly. I guess I still have painful memories of a couple of our youngsters bunting on their own last season at what seemed like very inopportune times.

[Fisk]

I also hate the sac bunt in almost every situation.

 

As far as bunting for a hit against the shift, as I said, the strategy has merit if used correctly. I guess I still have painful memories of a couple of our youngsters bunting on their own last season at what seemed like very inopportune times.

 

If they use it correctly it could really help defeat the shift, but yes they need to be smart about it.

[Kimmi]

If they use it correctly it could really help defeat the shift, but yes they need to be smart about it.

 

I can agree with this.

 

I actually tracked the team's sac bunts and sac bunt attempts last season. I am pleased to report that Farrell did a pretty good job with his use (or non-use) of the sac bunt last season.

[User Name]

Drag bunts and sac bunts are different things deployed in different situations.

[Fisk]

Drag bunts and sac bunts are different things deployed in different situations.

 

I know was talking about bunting for hits to beat the shift. Do not like the sac. Bunt in most situations do not like giving up outs.

[Fisk]

I can agree with this.

 

I actually tracked the team's sac bunts and sac bunt attempts last season. I am pleased to report that Farrell did a pretty good job with his use (or non-use) of the sac bunt last season.

 

Surprised, but good to hear.

[Slasher9]

Sandoval looks like he's down to his old playing weight, which is probably the best we can hope for. He made a couple of routine plays against NU but those were the only chances he had.

 

Moreland proved he has pretty good power, squaring up on one for a HR against NU

 

The latest excuse for Castillo's not running out the DP ball is that he "lost track of the outs". How does a guy who should be trying to make the team lose track of the outs in the first game he plays??

 

Re Henry Owens: I'm not sure what to say about his performance today. He didn't walk as many hitters but OTOH he fooled nobody with his pitches. Not mixing them up at all. It looked like he was making an effort to not walk hitters by throwing more FB's but it didn't take long for hitters to realize it so they were sitting on #1.

 

Abad didn't look half-abad today. He was the best of the staff that threw against the Mets.

 

XBo didn't play today. Not sure if he just had the day off or if he's left for the WBC.

 

Sox got no-no'd through 6 today but I promise not to panic, I did that last year saying that I was concerned about their offense and look how that turned out! LOL

 

I know nobody wants to hear this but it's beautiful baseball weather here. Hi 70's and sunny, BUT..,., they say it was 60 degrees in Boston today which also ain't bad.to

 

Hey S5. awesome, so glad to have your updates from ST again this year. hope you and yours enjoy yourselves!

[a700hitter]

Obviously, 2 ABs is nothing to base any decision off of, but even without that, I think I'd prefer that he start the season further down in the line up.

I was being sarcastic.

[mvp 78]

Drag bunts and sac bunts are different things deployed in different situations.

 

Yup, not every bunt is meant to be an automatic out. A drag bunt to beat the shift is just as meaningful as a bouncer up the middle.

[Spudboy]

Hit it where they ain't.

[Kimmi]

Yup, not every bunt is meant to be an automatic out. A drag bunt to beat the shift is just as meaningful as a bouncer up the middle.

 

Of course.

 

But you still don't want the players overusing the strategy of bunting for a base hit.

[User Name]

Hit it where they ain't. How doesn't matter.

[mvp 78]

Of course.

 

But you still don't want the players overusing the strategy of bunting for a base hit.

 

If it's to beat a shift, why not?

[Spudboy]

Hit it where they ain't.

 

Hit it where they ain't. How doesn't matter.

 

As I said...

[S5Dewey]

When the purpose of batting is two-fold, getting on base and not making an out, I've never understood why those hitters whom the defense shifts against aren't given a crash course in bunting. Obviously the bunt would have to be used situationally but in the right situations it could reduce the number of outs a power hitter makes.

 

As an added benefit, once the defense figures out that they're essentially giving a free pass when they shift they may want to revert back to a more conventional defense which would open up the rest of the field for more hits. In short, beat 'em at their own game.

 

While bunting takes skill and isn't infallible it doesn't have to be in order to be a plus. If a player can get on base half the time by bunting against a shifted infield (which IMO is a very conservative goal) it's better than the ~.3 of the time that results from swinging away.

[SoxnCycles]

Sounds like bunting for a hit against a major league pitcher is a piece of cake!

Amazing they don't do it more often.

[S5Dewey]

Sounds like bunting for a hit against a major league pitcher is a piece of cake!

Amazing they don't do it more often.

 

Nope. Not a piece of cake. But we're not looking for a 100% success rate. We're only looking to improve on that 30% success rate. I can't believe that a player with the skills to play MLB and some training can't be successful 50% of the time when bunting to a defenseless 25% of the field.

 

But I agree. I think it's amazing they don't do it more often.

[User Name]

Controlling a bunt's direction against high velocity is almost as hard as actually squaring a pitch and hitting a line drive. That's why players keep the bunt in their back pocket. Aren't you the "If you haven't played competitive baseball, you don't know clutch" guy? You should know this.

[SoxnCycles]

Nope. Not a piece of cake. But we're not looking for a 100% success rate. We're only looking to improve on that 30% success rate. I can't believe that a player with the skills to play MLB and some training can't be successful 50% of the time when bunting to a defenseless 25% of the field.

 

But I agree. I think it's amazing they don't do it more often.

 

I think it's because it doesn't work as much as we'd like to think it would.

[Kimmi]

If it's to beat a shift, why not?

 

As I said, bunting for a base hit to beat the shift has its merits. My point was that I hope it does not become overused.

 

If you're bunting for base hits too often, you are essentially giving up your power and your extra base hits. Papi might be an extreme example, but didn't we want him swinging away most of the time? I'm sure the opposing teams would gladly give him a bunt single in lieu of a homerun.

 

A bunt single will be more effective in some situations than in others, for example with 0 outs rather than with 2 outs.

 

All I'm saying is don't get too bunt happy.

[moonslav59]

How many bunt hits against a shift would it take for teams to give up on the shift?

 

8 out of 20 ABs?

 

16 out of 40?

[S5Dewey]

I think it's because it doesn't work as much as we'd like to think it would.

 

I agree that it's in our expectations. Some seem to think that in order for it to be valuable it would have to work ~100% of the time when in reality anything > 30% would be success.

[S5Dewey]

Controlling a bunt's direction against high velocity is almost as hard as actually squaring a pitch and hitting a line drive. That's why players keep the bunt in their back pocket. Aren't you the "If you haven't played competitive baseball, you don't know clutch" guy? You should know this.

I don't understand what being clutch has to do with situational bunting but on the whole I agree with your post. Controlling a bunt's direction is almost as hard as hitting a line drive - which makes them about equal.

 

The difference is that when a player is hitting against the shift and trying to square up he's trying to hit the ball into an overmanned defense whereas when he's trying to bunt he's trying to hit the ball into a vacant area.

 

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that his chances of getting on base are better when the ball goes to an area with no defensive players in it than when he hits into the shift.

[User Name]

The problem, again, is controlling a bunt's direction. If a pitcher smells bunt, he'll unleash a high fastball and the hitter will be lucky to put the ball in play, let alone control its direction. That's why hitters are very selective with when they drag bunt.

[Dojji]

Exactly, lt's like the eephus or the quarterback sneak. These plays are effective because, and only when, they are unexpected.

[Fisk]

AnybodY getting nervous about Thornberg, has really struggled his first two outings. Velocity is still there imagine he has to get his mechanics in synch. Has a history of bad springs.

[Maxbialystock]

As I said, bunting for a base hit to beat the shift has its merits. My point was that I hope it does not become overused.

 

If you're bunting for base hits too often, you are essentially giving up your power and your extra base hits. Papi might be an extreme example, but didn't we want him swinging away most of the time? I'm sure the opposing teams would gladly give him a bunt single in lieu of a homerun.

 

A bunt single will be more effective in some situations than in others, for example with 0 outs rather than with 2 outs.

 

All I'm saying is don't get too bunt happy.

 

You know of course that Lou Boudreau created to a shift against Ted Williams, who was very much a pull hitter. He didn't bunt, but did tinker with hitting to LF. I think in the end he pretty much stayed with pulling the ball and relying on line drives finding holes in the defense. I think today's shifts are probably better designed and based on real hitting patterns, so the bunt the possible fix.

[Kimmi]

I agree that it's in our expectations. Some seem to think that in order for it to be valuable it would have to work ~100% of the time when in reality anything > 30% would be success.

 

I get what you're saying with > 30% being a success, but that's not necessarily true. If all you're concerned with is getting on base, then a bunt single is as good as a line drive hit which is as good as a walk. However, if you're sacrificing extra base hits in too many of those at bats, the result could be a net loss.