2017 Spring Training Thread - Everything Sox ST

[jacksonianmarch]

Swihart is looking like a catching bust. First he couldn't handle a staff, then he couldn't block well enough or frame well enough and now he's Mackey Sasser. No point in dealing him now. You might as well demote him to AAA and see if he can work through the yips. If he's an OFer, his worth drops precipitously

[Fisk]

Swihart is looking like a catching bust. First he couldn't handle a staff, then he couldn't block well enough or frame well enough and now he's Mackey Sasser. No point in dealing him now. You might as well demote him to AAA and see if he can work through the yips. If he's an OFer, his worth drops precipitously

 

Would not give up on him at all way to early to call him a catching bust. Last year at this time Gary Sanchez was not highly regarded as a catching prospect. They take awhile to develop.

[cp176]

Would not give up on him at all way to early to call him a catching bust. Last year at this time Gary Sanchez was not highly regarded as a catching prospect. They take awhile to develop.

 

I think that Blake Swihart is one hell of an athlete. That being said I doubt very much that he ever catches full time for the Sox. He may get a look but we all know that he has a lot of work to do. The Red Sox don't need to be in a wait mode. He has been dinged around for awhile now so at least it is a good thing I think that they seem committed to leaving him behind the plate. His bat could be race ready early this year. If they can't find a way to use this kid , it would be a shame but in order for him to catch in Boston, he would have to show remarkable improvement in a short period of time. Do people think that this franchise is willing to wait a couple of years for him to develop as an actual catcher if his bat is major league ready? Do they need to? Personally, I wonder what is going through his mind right about now.

[moonslav59]

I think that Blake Swihart is one hell of an athlete. That being said I doubt very much that he ever catches full time for the Sox. He may get a look but we all know that he has a lot of work to do. The Red Sox don't need to be in a wait mode. He has been dinged around for awhile now so at least it is a good thing I think that they seem committed to leaving him behind the plate. His bat could be race ready early this year. If they can't find a way to use this kid , it would be a shame but in order for him to catch in Boston, he would have to show remarkable improvement in a short period of time.

 

I agree 100% CP. Although Swihart is still young enough to develop into a decent defensive catcher. Some pretty good catchers, like VTek, didn't really become a plus on defense until near or after age 30. I'm not sure the Sox have that long to wait him out, and besides his team control years will be up before age 30 anyways. (He'll be 29 his last arb year.)

 

We have 5 years of team control with Swihart. That's plenty of time to see, first, if he can catch, and if not, learn another position or two.

 

I still think he'll only become our FT catcher, if Leon and/or Vaz stumble. Certainly a significant chance of that exists to keep Swihart on the catcher development path than to seriously have him start learning another position. I don't see any harm in having him take some reps at 3B and 1B and maybe even LF (again), but nothing that would interfere with his catcher reps. I get the messing with his psyche argument, and if Sox management feels he probably can't handle it, then I trust their choice to wait it out.

 

Do people think that this franchise is willing to wait a couple of years for him to develop as an actual catcher if his bat is major league ready? Do they need to? Personally, I wonder what is going through his mind right about now.

 

I can see the push to have Swihart play 3B, 1B, DH or LF this year, if something unfortunate happens at any of those positions during the season. I think his bat is too good to leave at AAA, if we have a giant need somewhere.

[Nick]

I think that Blake Swihart is one hell of an athlete. That being said I doubt very much that he ever catches full time for the Sox. He may get a look but we all know that he has a lot of work to do. The Red Sox don't need to be in a wait mode. He has been dinged around for awhile now so at least it is a good thing I think that they seem committed to leaving him behind the plate. His bat could be race ready early this year. If they can't find a way to use this kid , it would be a shame but in order for him to catch in Boston, he would have to show remarkable improvement in a short period of time.

 

I agree 100% CP. Although Swihart is still young enough to develop into a decent defensive catcher. Some pretty good catchers, like VTek, didn't really become a plus on defense until near or after age 30. I'm not sure the Sox have that long to wait him out, and besides his team control years will be up before age 30 anyways. (He'll be 29 his last arb year.)

 

We have 5 years of team control with Swihart. That's plenty of time to see, first, if he can catch, and if not, learn another position or two.

 

I still think he'll only become our FT catcher, if Leon and/or Vaz stumble. Certainly a significant chance of that exists to keep Swihart on the catcher development path than to seriously have him start learning another position. I don't see any harm in having him take some reps at 3B and 1B and maybe even LF (again), but nothing that would interfere with his catcher reps. I get the messing with his psyche argument, and if Sox management feels he probably can't handle it, then I trust their choice to wait it out.

 

Do people think that this franchise is willing to wait a couple of years for him to develop as an actual catcher if his bat is major league ready? Do they need to? Personally, I wonder what is going through his mind right about now.

 

I can see the push to have Swihart play 3B, 1B, DH or LF this year, if something unfortunate happens at any of those positions during the season. I think his bat is too good to leave at AAA, if we have a giant need somewhere.

 

At some point, don't we have to find out if he can catch? Beni is our LF, Devers is our 3B, Travis is at 1B and we have Hanley for 3 more years.

[Dojji]

At some point, we have to accept the fact that ideal solutions may not be practical. Even if he might have a higher value objectively as a catcher, Swihart's optimum value to the team is as a big leaguer. Swihart can kill the ball in AAA and it won't get us any closer to the World Series. He is spinning his wheels waiting for his glove to come around and guess what guys. It isn't coming around. In fact early returns this Spring suggests his defense has actually regressed.

 

Swihart's bat is ready NOW and only MLB reps can improve it. We can't wait for the glove. We've waited long enough, it's been 2 years and any improvement defensively has been MINIMAL. Swihart's clock is ticking NOW thanks to his callup back in 2015 and the decision made to bring him back in 2016 to play the outfield. We need to get him up here ASAP so we can help us, and if that involves moving him off catcher and getting him into a position where we have an opening, instead of playing this ridiculous will-he won't-he game he's trapped in now, then I'm all for it.

Edited February 20, 2017 by Dojji

[cp176]

At some point, don't we have to find out if he can catch? Beni is our LF, Devers is our 3B, Travis is at 1B and we have Hanley for 3 more years.

 

Yes I think that we do but most have suggested that it is going to take some time. I really don't think tucking him away in AAA for 2 or 3 years is going to make any sense at all.

[Nick]

Yes I think that we do but most have suggested that it is going to take some time. I really don't think tucking him away in AAA for 2 or 3 years is going to make any sense at all.

 

So everyone here agrees that Blake should be fighting for another position? Who is he better than?

[cp176]

I think that Blake Swihart is one hell of an athlete. That being said I doubt very much that he ever catches full time for the Sox. He may get a look but we all know that he has a lot of work to do. The Red Sox don't need to be in a wait mode. He has been dinged around for awhile now so at least it is a good thing I think that they seem committed to leaving him behind the plate. His bat could be race ready early this year. If they can't find a way to use this kid , it would be a shame but in order for him to catch in Boston, he would have to show remarkable improvement in a short period of time.

 

I agree 100% CP. Although Swihart is still young enough to develop into a decent defensive catcher. Some pretty good catchers, like VTek, didn't really become a plus on defense until near or after age 30. I'm not sure the Sox have that long to wait him out, and besides his team control years will be up before age 30 anyways. (He'll be 29 his last arb year.)

 

We have 5 years of team control with Swihart. That's plenty of time to see, first, if he can catch, and if not, learn another position or two.

 

I still think he'll only become our FT catcher, if Leon and/or Vaz stumble. Certainly a significant chance of that exists to keep Swihart on the catcher development path than to seriously have him start learning another position. I don't see any harm in having him take some reps at 3B and 1B and maybe even LF (again), but nothing that would interfere with his catcher reps. I get the messing with his psyche argument, and if Sox management feels he probably can't handle it, then I trust their choice to wait it out.

 

Do people think that this franchise is willing to wait a couple of years for him to develop as an actual catcher if his bat is major league ready? Do they need to? Personally, I wonder what is going through his mind right about now.

 

I can see the push to have Swihart play 3B, 1B, DH or LF this year, if something unfortunate happens at any of those positions during the season. I think his bat is too good to leave at AAA, if we have a giant need somewhere.

 

I have heard this developmental comparison to Varitek before. Am I right in assuming that Varitek was a catcher and for the most part a catcher only. I think that we are talking about a much more versatile player here. I really don't think that anyone in Boston plans on giving him to the age of 30 to develop. Once again, and I truly believe it, I think that there is still a concern as to whether either Vazquez or Leon provide what the Red Sox really want going forward. i really don't think they know. If they were really confident in either Leon or Vazquez, both young men, being our number one going forward, I think that Swihart would either be playing another position or two for us right now or he would have been traded. If his bat is ready, something is going to have to give.

[cp176]

So everyone here agrees that Blake should be fighting for another position? Who is he better than?

 

 

Do you stash that bat in AAA for how long? If he is ready to hit, what do you do?

[moonslav59]

At some point, don't we have to find out if he can catch? Beni is our LF, Devers is our 3B, Travis is at 1B and we have Hanley for 3 more years.

 

I agree and said so.

 

I'm just saying, if something happens at 1B, 3B or OF during the season, we might see Swihart at another position out of need- just like last year.

[moonslav59]

At some point, we have to accept the fact that ideal solutions may not be practical. Even if he might have a higher value objectively as a catcher, Swihart's optimum value to the team is as a big leaguer. Swihart can kill the ball in AAA and it won't get us any closer to the World Series. He is spinning his wheels waiting for his glove to come around and guess what guys. It isn't coming around. In fact early returns this Spring suggests his defense has actually regressed.

 

Swihart's bat is ready NOW and only MLB reps can improve it. We can't wait for the glove. We've waited long enough, it's been 2 years and any improvement defensively has been MINIMAL. Swihart's clock is ticking NOW thanks to his callup back in 2015 and the decision made to bring him back in 2016 to play the outfield. We need to get him up here ASAP so we can help us, and if that involves moving him off catcher and getting him into a position where we have an opening, instead of playing this ridiculous will-he won't-he game he's trapped in now, then I'm all for it.

 

Yes.

[moonslav59]

So everyone here agrees that Blake should be fighting for another position? Who is he better than?

 

He could be better than Moreland.

 

He's probably better (at least on offense) than Holt at 3B.

 

If an OF;er gets hurt and Young is not longer HanRam's platoon partner at DH, Swihart could DH vs LHPs better than anyone else, and be availble elsewhere vs righties.

 

If Young gets hurt, Swihart could be our 4th Of'er.

[moonslav59]

I have heard this developmental comparison to Varitek before. Am I right in assuming that Varitek was a catcher and for the most part a catcher only.

 

Yes, and he led the league in PBs at ages 27 & 28 with his fair share of WPs as well. His CS% rarely got above 30% even after 30.

 

I don't remember anyone raving about VTek's great pitcher handling until after age 30.

 

No, we are not going to wait until Swihart reaches age 30 to see if he can catch. He's much different then VTek. I only brought up VTek's name to show that some catcher take longer than otehrs to develop into a plus-plus.

 

I think the Sox want to be patient. I think they wanted to have him catch in AAA last year, but sometimes team needs take precedent.

[Spudboy]

You may be right. This from Merloni earlier today:

 

Pablo looks outstanding from the left side. Smooth, hits w/his hands. Right side? Too much body and arms in his swing. Not smooth

 

He also said Pablow was still fat. Just not as fat as he was last spring.

 

When folks here began to get woodies over the early photos of the "New Pablow" about two months ago, I was very skeptical about his weight loss and his ability to keep it off.

 

Back then he looked about 20 lbs lighter that the videos of him made today.

 

Don't be surprised if he plays like s*** and becomes a morbidly obese fat f*** again this season. It's easily as likely as him hitting .290.

[moonslav59]

I think we all know there's a significant chance Pablo does not do well- fat or not too fat- or not fat at all.

[SoxnCycles]

You also have the remember that his best shape of his life comes over 30 and after a shoulder reconstruction. Maybe best shape of his life should have been at 22 and maintained and he'd be better than the player he has been

 

He's 30, not "over 30".

[harmony]

He could be better than Moreland.

 

He's probably better (at least on offense) than Holt at 3B.

 

If an OF;er gets hurt and Young is not longer HanRam's platoon partner at DH, Swihart could DH vs LHPs better than anyone else, and be availble elsewhere vs righties.

 

If Young gets hurt, Swihart could be our 4th Of'er.

FanGraphs Depth Charts, Steamer and ZiPS project 2017 wRC+ of:

 

82, 87 and 77 for Blake Swihart

91, 95 and 86 for Mitch Moreland

89, 88 and 90 for Brock Holt

92, 97 and 86 for Pablo Sandoval

97, 99 and 96 for Chris Young

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=13176&position=C

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=3086&position=1B

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=9345&position=3B/OF

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=5409&position=3B

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=3882&position=OF

Edited February 20, 2017 by harmony

[moonslav59]

FanGraphs Depth Charts, Steamer and ZiPS project 2017 wRC+ of 82, 87 and 77 for Blake Swihart, 91, 95 and 86 for Mitch Moreland, 89, 88 and 90 for Brock Holt and 92, 97 and 86 for Pablo Sandoval:

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=13176&position=C

 

http://www.fan graphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=3086&position=1B

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=9345&position=3B/OF

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=5409&position=3B

 

I said he "might" be better , and no zips projection is going to convince me Moreland is clearly a better hitter than Swi.

[Fisk]

He's all about projections, not really sure if he ever has seen a ballgame

[Slasher9]

Pablo is said to be in the best shape of his life. But how do you know that is true? lmao

 

I follow him on IG. he has been working very hard for the past 6 months. I cannot confirm his entire life but he def looks like he is in the best shape in many years. his current shape is closer to an "i" than an "o".

[harmony]

I said he "might" be better , and no zips projection is going to convince me Moreland is clearly a better hitter than Swi.

Mitch Moreland has a career OPS+ of 100 and a career wRC+ of 98 while Blake Swihart has a career OPS+ of 90 and a career wRC+ of 92.

 

Moreland posted higher wRC+* than Swihart at every level in the minors although Moreland was drafted as 21-year-old out of college while Swihart was drafted as a 19-year-old out of high school.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=3086&position=1B

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=13176&position=C

 

I hope Blake Swihart has a long and productive MLB career. I envy Swihart, who plays the game I love at a level I could only dream of. I don't doubt that Swihart strives to be the best he can be.

 

I cannot blame Swihart if the nearly 25-year-old has been the victim of overhype.

 

* wRC+ is scaled to a league average: http://www.fangraphs.com/library/offense/wrc/

[harmony]

He's all about projections, not really sure if he ever has seen a ballgame

Hey! I saw two cold and wet innings of an NCAA Division III game on Saturday and will see five Cactus League games* in three days next month.

 

And then it's on to the regular season ...

 

* 3/12: Mariners at Angels, White Sox at Dodgers; 3/13: Royals at Rockies, Giants at Rangers; 3/14: Brewers at Cubs

Edited February 20, 2017 by harmony

[moonslav59]

Mitch Moreland has a career OPS+ of 100 and a career wRC+ of 98 while Blake Swihart has a career OPS+ of 90 and a career wRC+ of 92.

 

Moreland posted higher wRC+* than Swihart at every level in the minors although Moreland was drafted as 21-year-old out of college while Swihart was drafted as a 19-year-old out of high school.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=3086&position=1B

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=13176&position=C

 

I hope Blake Swihart has a long and productive MLB career. I envy Swihart, who plays the game I love at a level I could only dream of. I don't doubt that Swihart strives to be the best he can be.

 

I cannot blame Swihart if the nearly 25-year-old has been the victim of overhype.

 

* wRC+ is scaled to a league average: http://www.fangraphs.com/library/offense/wrc/

 

We won't know if it is overhype until he has a longer look. He was ranked pretty highly by people who know more about these things than we do.

 

He was younger than Moreland at every level, so the comp is a hard one to grasp.

 

I realize Moreland might do better both this year and going forward, but if Moreland struggles, Swi could get a chance to show he can do better. He could then go on and do better.

 

I do think Swihart might already be better than Moreland vs LHPs, so if Young gets hurt or an OF'er gets hurt and forces Young to play OF and not platoon at DH with HanRam, I think Swihart would be a better choice than Moreland, if only vs LHPs.

 

If Moreland struggles vs RHPs, maybe Swihart could do better. Sam Travis and Brock Holt would be the only in system competition for Swihart at 1B. I'm not sure anyone in our system would be a better DH, if Young, HanRam or Moreland gets hurt, regardless of Zips and Steamer having Holt or Travis projected with a higher OPS.

 

I know, Swihart could struggle in AAA and not be "the next guy in line", and maybe my hopes for Swihart are clouding my judgment, but it's not a stretch to think he could win the DH platoon job from Moreland or beat out Holt and Rutledge at 3B, if Pablo struggles of gets hurt this year.

[Fisk]

Don't forget to bring your glasses.

[Fisk]

Hey! I saw two cold and wet innings of an NCAA Division III game on Saturday and will see five Cactus League games* in three days next month.

 

And then it's on to the regular season ...

 

* 3/12: Mariners at Angels, White Sox at Dodgers; 3/13: Royals at Rockies, Giants at Rangers; 3/14: Brewers at Cubs

 

I meant to say bring your glasses so you can read the projections, while you are at the game.

[harmony]

Don't forget to bring your glasses.

Insults are unbecoming.

[Spudboy]

He's all about projections, not really sure if he ever has seen a ballgame

 

Lulz.

 

You guys are so kind to each other!

[Fisk]

Lulz.

 

You guys are so kind to each other!

Yes his projections annoy the crap out of me.

[harmony]

Yes his projections annoy the crap out of me.

For example:

Meanwhile, FanGraphs Depth Charts and ZiPS are bullish on the Red Sox chances this year:

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/depthcharts.aspx?position=ALL&teamid=3

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/depthcharts.aspx?position=Standings#AL-E

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/2017-zips-projections-boston-red-sox/

http://www.talksox.com/forum/threads/17652-Christian-Vazquez?p=1049028#post1049028