Hanley Ramirez

[moonslav59]

I agree with all that. I just saw his name in enough of your posts that I misinterpreted that as some level of confidence that he will be useful.

 

No problem. I keep listing him as being on the roster, because he will be unless and until they DFA or trade him.

 

I have not totally given up on him as many here have, but I have little faith in a tiger changing stripes.

 

I'm hoping he has enough pride to get himself into shape by opening day of ST'ing. He hits RHPs very well, so he could possibly have a role on the team, especially if Shaw fades away and/or Moncada needs more time to develop or ends up being an OF'er or a non-starter next season.

 

Again, counting on Pablo for anything would be a big mistake that I doubt Sox management makes.

[oldtimer]

No problem. I keep listing him as being on the roster, because he will be unless and until they DFA or trade him.

 

I have not totally given up on him as many here have, but I have little faith in a tiger changing stripes.

 

I'm hoping he has enough pride to get himself into shape by opening day of ST'ing. He hits RHPs very well, so he could possibly have a role on the team, especially if Shaw fades away and/or Moncada needs more time to develop or ends up being an OF'er or a non-starter next season.

 

Again, counting on Pablo for anything would be a big mistake that I doubt Sox management makes.

 

Other than having to pay his very large salary, what reason would we have for bringing him back. His fielding is not as good as others we could play at 3rd or first and his bat hasn't shown much so DH seems like a long shot.

[moonslav59]

Other than having to pay his very large salary, what reason would we have for bringing him back. His fielding is not as good as others we could play at 3rd or first and his bat hasn't shown much so DH seems like a long shot.

 

1) Before last year, he was a plus defender at 3B. Shaw is about the same. Moncada is worse.

From 2009-2014, he had a +2.2 UZR/150. He was at 3.5 the year before signing with us. Shaw is at 2.2 this year and 2.8 8 from 2015-2016. He might also be a better defensive 1Bman than HanRam, so we could put Pablo at 1B and HanRam at DH, even if just vs RHPs. (Young could DH vs lefties.)

 

2) Before last year, he was one of the best offensive 3Bmen in MLB (3+ year sample), although he was in a near constant decline trend. He was 9th in 3B WAR from 2008-2014. His .811 OPS placed him 8th (3Bman with 3500+ PAs). If he could hit .790-.850 vs RHPs, he'd probably win a platoon job at 3B, 1B or DH with the Sox. His .850 OPS vs RHPs from 2008-2014 ranks 2nd best in MLB with 2500+ PAs, 4th with 2000+ PAs.

 

3) He has always hit RHPs well (see above). Even in his awful season with us, he did okay vs righties (.744 with 31 XBHs in 350 PAs). He has a career OPS vs RHPs of .835. In context, T Shaw has a .795 OPS vs RHPs this year and a career .774 OPS vs righties.

 

4) Pablo just turned 30. There's certainly some chance he can get in shape and have a year similar to his career norm. He's still in his "prime".

 

Again, please don't take this as me being a Pablo supporter. I hated the signing from day one. His 2015 season was one of the worst I have ever seen by a FT Sox player...even worse than HanRam's.

 

I'm just saying, I do not think we will just cut him or trade him by paying almost all his salary, unless we see he is not serious about changing attitude and lowering his weight. If he gets in shape, I see him having a chance at cracking the 25 man roster, especially if we don't sign a DH or corner IF'er.

 

.

[Dojji]

Not sure the age thing is as relevant as you're hoping it is. As we've seen with a number of fat pitchers over the years, and speaking as a very fat man myself -- having that much extra weight ages you and creates extra wear on your frame. CC Sabathia was never the same again after age 32. Bartolo Colon, before his "miraculous recovery" *coughPEDcough*, hit the skids at 31. Lotta fat players start seriously declining a few years early and Pablo's fatter than most.

[moonslav59]

Not sure the age thing is as relevant as you're hoping it is. As we've seen with a number of fat pitchers over the years, and speaking as a very fat man myself -- having that much extra weight ages you and creates extra wear on your frame. CC Sabathia was never the same again after age 32. Bartolo Colon, before his "miraculous recovery" *coughPEDcough*, hit the skids at 31. Lotta fat players start seriously declining a few years early and Pablo's fatter than most.

 

I realize that, and like I said, I am not counting on 1 inning from Pablo.

 

I'm just saying there is still hope. Prince Fielder had a big year at age 31 after some injury issues earlier.

[oldtimer]

1) Before last year, he was a plus defender at 3B. Shaw is about the same. Moncada is worse.

From 2009-2014, he had a +2.2 UZR/150. He was at 3.5 the year before signing with us. Shaw is at 2.2 this year and 2.8 8 from 2015-2016. He might also be a better defensive 1Bman than HanRam, so we could put Pablo at 1B and HanRam at DH, even if just vs RHPs. (Young could DH vs lefties.)

 

2) Before last year, he was one of the best offensive 3Bmen in MLB (3+ year sample), although he was in a near constant decline trend. He was 9th in 3B WAR from 2008-2014. His .811 OPS placed him 8th (3Bman with 3500+ PAs). If he could hit .790-.850 vs RHPs, he'd probably win a platoon job at 3B, 1B or DH with the Sox. His .850 OPS vs RHPs from 2008-2014 ranks 2nd best in MLB with 2500+ PAs, 4th with 2000+ PAs.

 

3) He has always hit RHPs well (see above). Even in his awful season with us, he did okay vs righties (.744 with 31 XBHs in 350 PAs). He has a career OPS vs RHPs of .835. In context, T Shaw has a .795 OPS vs RHPs this year and a career .774 OPS vs righties.

 

4) Pablo just turned 30. There's certainly some chance he can get in shape and have a year similar to his career norm. He's still in his "prime".

 

Again, please don't take this as me being a Pablo supporter. I hated the signing from day one. His 2015 season was one of the worst I have ever seen by a FT Sox player...even worse than HanRam's.

 

I'm just saying, I do not think we will just cut him or trade him by paying almost all his salary, unless we see he is not serious about changing attitude and lowering his weight. If he gets in shape, I see him having a chance at cracking the 25 man roster, especially if we don't sign a DH or corner IF'er.

 

.

 

A year away from playing. Recovering from surgery and also in decline prior to all of his issues with weight. I don't expect him to recover to the point he could help us and if his salary wasn't the gorilla in the room, he would have been gone by now. His status is a problem for DD and his signing didn't turn out positively at all.

[mvp 78]

Hanley sux. He can't DH. No power. Sad!

[greenwell]

Hanley sux. He can't DH. No power. Sad!

 

Are you joking or did you mean Pablo?

[mvp 78]

Are you joking or did you mean Pablo?

 

Yes.

[Spudboy]

Hanley sux. He can't DH. No power. Sad!

 

He also can't focus!!!!!!

 

No way he could hit!!!!

[mvp 78]

He also can't focus!!!!!!

 

No way he could hit!!!!

 

Can't catch popups. Sad!

[moonslav59]

A year away from playing. Recovering from surgery and also in decline prior to all of his issues with weight. I don't expect him to recover to the point he could help us and if his salary wasn't the gorilla in the room, he would have been gone by now. His status is a problem for DD and his signing didn't turn out positively at all.

 

I totally agree, and while I wouldn't have signed him for half of what they paid him, the fact is, Sox management thought enough about him to value him enough to give him $95M/5, and from what I here, without an insurance policy on him.

 

SF wanted him back. They are a class organization. They saw the decline, the weight issues and had him in the club house for 6 years.

 

I totally realize his career is likely over, at least as any sort of meaningful impact player, but he's going to get a look, if his weight is down by a substantial amount. If it's not, we may just cut ties before even giving him a look in ST'ing.

[a700hitter]

LOL! He can't catch popups or throw, but overall he is adequate in the field. At Bat he has been pretty consistent at getting on base and his power has come in streaks.

[mvp 78]

I totally agree, and while I wouldn't have signed him for half of what they paid him, the fact is, Sox management thought enough about him to value him enough to give him $95M/5, and from what I here, without an insurance policy on him.

 

SF wanted him back. They are a class organization. They saw the decline, the weight issues and had him in the club house for 6 years.

 

I totally realize his career is likely over, at least as any sort of meaningful impact player, but he's going to get a look, if his weight is down by a substantial amount. If it's not, we may just cut ties before even giving him a look in ST'ing.

 

JH doesn't do insurance on anyone because he got burned once 20 years ago.

[Youk Of The Nation]

Who talks like that?

 

Am I the only one who noticed that this seems to be an alt account, and that whomever owns said alt account clearly forgot to switch back to their main before posting this? Haha...I wonder who it is? They're obviously using a proxy.

[Slasher9]

In for some HanRam love.

dude is a beast and i'm glad we have him.

[Slasher9]

Who talks like that?

 

whooops. who forgot to change their username and replied to themselves?

you, sir, are not very good at trolling.

[mvp 78]

Am I the only one who noticed that this seems to be an alt account, and that whomever owns said alt account clearly forgot to switch back to their main before posting this? Haha...I wonder who it is? They're obviously using a proxy.

 

Good catch!

[southpaw777]

I could see that happening. Maybe Pablo and Young will platoon at DH. However, if Moncada wins the 3B job, and Shaw is hitting well, it makes sense to move HanRam to DH.[/QUOT

 

it makes more sense to trade someone or flat out DFA someone. Pablo is another year oldr, was already in decline, is a fat ass, and just coming off major shoulder surgery. I really dont think he will be an issue. we have already moved on from him with Shaw and soon enough Moncada.

[S5Dewey]

I could see that happening. Maybe Pablo and Young will platoon at DH. However, if Moncada wins the 3B job, and Shaw is hitting well, it makes sense to move HanRam to DH.[/QUOT

 

it makes more sense to trade someone or flat out DFA someone. Pablo is another year oldr, was already in decline, is a fat ass, and just coming off major shoulder surgery. I really dont think he will be an issue. we have already moved on from him with Shaw and soon enough Moncada.

 

I don't disagree, but at the same time while you and I have moved on from Sandoval, JH is still writing him a check every month so JH may not have moved on. He's got a lot of money tied up in that fat body and my guess is that he's going to try to recoup some of it either by playing him or by trade. DFA'ing him is probably the last resort.

[moonslav59]

 

I don't disagree, but at the same time while you and I have moved on from Sandoval, JH is still writing him a check every month so JH may not have moved on. He's got a lot of money tied up in that fat body and my guess is that he's going to try to recoup some of it either by playing him or by trade. DFA'ing him is probably the last resort.

 

Agreed, but a lot will depend on how Pablo looks when he walks into ST'ing.

 

If it's obvious he didn't work hard to get into better shape, I think DFA'ing is a real option. I suppose we could trade him by paying $17-18M of his $19M a year, but there's not much difference between the two.

 

If he comes to camp in much better shape, I think he may have a legitimate chance at the ...

 

3B job vs RHPs, if Moncada starts in AAA (Shaw at 1B and HanRam at DH)

 

DH job vs RHPs with Young DH'ing vs lefties

 

1B job vs RHPs, if he proves he's a better fielder than HanRam at 1B (HanRam to DH vs RHPs) or Moncada wins the 3B job and Shaw is struggling. or Shaw is struggling

 

I seriously doubt he ever wins a FT role on this team with his pitiful numbers vs lefties. At least his recent situation will give him no reason to pout, if he's turned into a platoon player only.

[Jack Flap]

Just think, if we'd traded Hanley this past winter and he was having this kind of season somewhere else, he'd probably be getting hit with the "Too soft to play in Boston" label by all the armchair psychoanalysts out there.

[Bellhorn04]

Just think, if we'd traded Hanley this past winter and he was having this kind of season somewhere else, he'd probably be getting hit with the "Too soft to play in Boston" label by all the armchair psychoanalysts out there.

 

Yes indeed.

 

I guess Dombrowski and Sox management deserve some credit for thinking Hanley might do OK at first base this year.

[southpaw777]

 

I don't disagree, but at the same time while you and I have moved on from Sandoval, JH is still writing him a check every month so JH may not have moved on. He's got a lot of money tied up in that fat body and my guess is that he's going to try to recoup some of it either by playing him or by trade. DFA'ing him is probably the last resort.

 

I say we have moved on from him because Moncada should be here full time no later than 2018. I believe Hes who they see as their 3b of the future. he needs some work on D and at the plate before hes ready for MLB, so that gives us maybe a year to move Panda. Hanley is fine at 1b. vs LH and RH. his splits are great and theres no need to interrupt his game to accommodate the fat man. Im not a big fan of platoons when they are not necessary. and NO, Panda at 1b is NOT necessary.

If panda can play winter ball to show hes healthy that would be a plus. we could trade him in the winter or in ST at the latest. He was a bad signing from the start and just NOT a good fit here in Boston. a lot like AGon. he NEEDS to be out of Boston ASAP. Theres no place for him on this Red Sox team.

[Dojji]

Yes indeed.

 

I guess Dombrowski and Sox management deserve some credit for thinking Hanley might do OK at first base this year.

 

Agreed. Hanley has been officially salvaged. If he's happy, confident and hitting at first base, and not usually a liability defensively, don't fix what isn't broken. Hopefully a full healthy year next year will see an increase in offensive production, and better familiarity with the first base job will improve his D. There's plenty of room for optimism as concerns Mr. Ramirez right now.

[moonslav59]

Just think, if we'd traded Hanley this past winter and he was having this kind of season somewhere else, he'd probably be getting hit with the "Too soft to play in Boston" label by all the armchair psychoanalysts out there.

 

Great post.

 

Like with Melancon.

 

Maybe Pablo will follow HanRam's example next year.

[moonslav59]

Agreed. Hanley has been officially salvaged. If he's happy, confident and hitting at first base, and not usually a liability defensively, don't fix what isn't broken. Hopefully a full healthy year next year will see an increase in offensive production, and better familiarity with the first base job will improve his D. There's plenty of room for optimism as concerns Mr. Ramirez right now.

 

His stock is as high as it ever will be going forward.

 

I'd trade him this winter.

[Dojji]

It's tempting, except that we don't have a proper successor. We kind of need Hanley, at least next year. We'll see in the following offseason, depending on what Shaw and Sam Travis are up to and who we've traded or signed in the meantime.

[moonslav59]

It's tempting, except that we don't have a proper successor. We kind of need Hanley, at least next year. We'll see in the following offseason, depending on what Shaw and Sam Travis are up to and who we've traded or signed in the meantime.

 

The money saved by trading HanRam might allow us to pursue a better option. I'm not high on signing Encarnacion for 5-6 years, but if you take away HanRam's 3 remaining years, it looks more enticing.

 

(Hanram's 2019 vesting option kicks in, if he has 1050 PAs over 2017-2018.)

[Dojji]

Except that you've traded 3 years of commitment for a character with strong offense, questionable D and solid chemistry with the rest of the team, for 6 years of commitment for a character with strong offense, even more questionable D and no particular known chemistry with any existing team member. I'm not sure swapping out Hanley for Edwin is a step in any particular direction at all, except towards more contract liability over a longer period of time. That seems like a great way to outsmart oneself.