Hanley Ramirez

[greenwell]

His stock is as high as it ever will be going forward.

 

I'd trade him this winter.

 

I'm on the fence about trading him. I think it's likely that the sox could get another team to take his contract, but not sure they would actually get anything in return.

In addition it seems that Hanley often has an adjustment period that results in a slightly down year whenever he switches teams, will that reduce his value in a trade?

[Bellhorn04]

Except that you've traded 3 years of commitment for a character with strong offense, questionable D and solid chemistry with the rest of the team, for 6 years of commitment for a character with strong offense, even more questionable D and no particular known chemistry with any existing team member. I'm not sure swapping out Hanley for Edwin is a step in any particular direction at all, except towards more contract liability over a longer period of time. That seems like a great way to outsmart oneself.

 

You could be right.

[moonslav59]

Except that you've traded 3 years of commitment for a character with strong offense, questionable D and solid chemistry with the rest of the team, for 6 years of commitment for a character with strong offense, even more questionable D and no particular known chemistry with any existing team member. I'm not sure swapping out Hanley for Edwin is a step in any particular direction at all, except towards more contract liability over a longer period of time. That seems like a great way to outsmart oneself.

 

I'm not sure about the "chemistry", but I see no indications of any issues. I have never heard any about EE either.

 

EE is a beast. He's been about the most consistent hitter over the last 5 years. I get the age thing, and I hate these long term , big money deals. I'm actually against signing EE, but my point was that I'd prefer him over HanRam...by a lot.

 

The guy's been over .890 every year since 2012. 34+ Hrs all 5 years. 98+ RBIs all 5 years.

 

HanRam is a roller coaster, who is on the top of the next thrill, but soon to be drop-off, in my opinion.

 

Last winter, I said we should trade him, even if he hits .950. I realize we have a weakness at 1B/DH next year, and EE is not a better fielder than HanRam at 1B, so we'd be back to a DH only type situation. Maybe there's a better option than Han-Ram and EE out there.

 

EE OPS

'09 .729

'10 .787

'11 .787

'12 .941

'13 .904

'14 .901

'15 .929

'16 .893

 

HanRam (same years)

.954

.853

.712

.759

1.040

.817

.717

.848

 

You can't construct a more inconsistent pattern than HanRam's, plus the guy has only had over 512 PAs once sine 2012 and 2 times in his past 6 seasons.

 

Sell high.

 

HanRam

 

 

[Bellhorn04]

There will probably be a major auction for Encarnacion and the Yankees could well be one of the teams involved. He will be extremely expensive.

[moonslav59]

There will probably be a major auction for Encarnacion and the Yankees could well be one of the teams involved. He will be extremely expensive.

 

Let them have him.

 

I'm not for spending large AND long on just about anyone, unless almost all the years fall within prime.

 

I shouldn't have mentioned him as a replacement for HanRam, but he is the biggest name out there. I'd rather have him at $110M/5 than HanRam at $66M/3

[sk7326]

IT will cost more than that for Encarnacion - and it is a hard deal to justify for a cornerman - even one with his power.

 

Ramirez has been insanely hot lately - and it's funny what being healthy and playing a position you have some reasonable self confidence in can do. (no, he doesn't play 1B well, but he is not the horror show he was in LF, and at least as important he doesn't feel horrible about it)

[moonslav59]

IT will cost more than that for Encarnacion - and it is a hard deal to justify for a cornerman - even one with his power.

 

Ramirez has been insanely hot lately - and it's funny what being healthy and playing a position you have some reasonable self confidence in can do. (no, he doesn't play 1B well, but he is not the horror show he was in LF, and at least as important he doesn't feel horrible about it)

 

EE is one of the worst 1Bmen since 2012. He's really more of a DH-only type player. He might be even worse at 1B than HanRam and Papi, but I guess the injury factor is not there like it is with Papi.

 

I'm not sure a DH will get much more than $22-24M x 5 or 6 years.

[S5Dewey]

EE is one of the worst 1Bmen since 2012. He's really more of a DH-only type player. He might be even worse at 1B than HanRam and Papi, but I guess the injury factor is not there like it is with Papi.

 

I'm not sure a DH will get much more than $22-24M x 5 or 6 years.

 

So you'd rather have EE @ $23M for the next 5-6 years (~$126M) than Hanley at $22M for the next 3 years ($66M)? In spite of the fact that EE will be 3 years older than Haley will be when their contracts expire? Wow.

 

Are you expecting EE to be Papi reincarnated during the last couple of years of the contract?

[cp176]

So you'd rather have EE @ $23M for the next 5-6 years (~$126M) than Hanley at $22M for the next 3 years ($66M)? In spite of the fact that EE will be 3 years older than Haley will be when their contracts expire? Wow.

 

Are you expecting EE to be Papi reincarnated during the last couple of years of the contract?

 

Why would anyone who can afford Ramirez want to trade him? His defense is adequate and 25/100 is damn tough to improve upon. Red Sox can afford him and sign EE as well if they so choose. Any of the other gaps can be filled via the trade route if need be. If anyone suggests (which they have not yet that I have heard about) that another high priced free agent signing might impact this team's ability to make solid offers to our best young players going forward, then talk of $ makes sense. It is primarily John Henry's money and fan chatter about how he should be using it is just that - chatter. If and more likely when, he decides to sell this franchise, he is going to make a huge profit. I don't think that he really shows any signs of piching pennies with respect to the luxury tax. thankfully for all of us he is not afraid to spend.

[S5Dewey]

Why would anyone who can afford Ramirez want to trade him? His defense is adequate and 25/100 is damn tough to improve upon. Red Sox can afford him and sign EE as well if they so choose. Any of the other gaps can be filled via the trade route if need be. If anyone suggests (which they have not yet that I have heard about) that another high priced free agent signing might impact this team's ability to make solid offers to our best young players going forward, then talk of $ makes sense. It is primarily John Henry's money and fan chatter about how he should be using it is just that - chatter. If and more likely when, he decides to sell this franchise, he is going to make a huge profit. I don't think that he really shows any signs of piching pennies with respect to the luxury tax. thankfully for all of us he is not afraid to spend.

 

I hadn't thought in terms of using EE money to sign Bogaerts, Betts, or Bradley, but it makes good sense. Go with what we've got and (try to) sign the youth.

[moonslav59]

So you'd rather have EE @ $23M for the next 5-6 years (~$126M) than Hanley at $22M for the next 3 years ($66M)? In spite of the fact that EE will be 3 years older than Haley will be when their contracts expire? Wow.

 

Are you expecting EE to be Papi reincarnated during the last couple of years of the contract?

 

I'm not sure anymore. I don't want EE at big money x 5+ years, but I don't think HanRam is going to have a good year next year.

 

I might have to retract my EE over HR comment.

[moonslav59]

Why would anyone who can afford Ramirez want to trade him?

 

Just look at all the posts last year on HanRam.

 

He's still the same roller coaster HanRam, but he's just currently on the rising part of the ride.

 

Next year, we'll wish we had traded him while his stock was high. (My guess.)

[Spudboy]

Why would anyone who can afford Ramirez want to trade him? His defense is adequate and 25/100 is damn tough to improve upon. Red Sox can afford him and sign EE as well if they so choose. Any of the other gaps can be filled via the trade route if need be. If anyone suggests (which they have not yet that I have heard about) that another high priced free agent signing might impact this team's ability to make solid offers to our best young players going forward, then talk of $ makes sense. It is primarily John Henry's money and fan chatter about how he should be using it is just that - chatter. If and more likely when, he decides to sell this franchise, he is going to make a huge profit. I don't think that he really shows any signs of piching pennies with respect to the luxury tax. thankfully for all of us he is not afraid to spend.

 

Common sense. Good post.

 

Some people are making this "issue" unnecessarily complicated.

[moonslav59]

It's not complicated.

[Emp9]

Bautista might be an easier signing, less years than EE, though maybe not less money necessarily. He could play OF when called upon.

 

Carlos Santana (although his club option should get picked up).

 

Matt Holliday (although his club option should get picked up)

 

Yoenis Cespedes (has an opt-out)

 

Carlos Gomez (he's waking up as of late, which I suspected he would). He may cost significantly less to sign than anyone out there.

 

Carlos Beltran (as long as he doesn't leave the bat on his shoulders when the game is on the line... )

 

We could move HanRam to DH, Shaw to 1B, and kick the tires on Justin Turner ( If Moncada isn't quite ready ).

 

All honesty, I'd rather sure-up some of the young players we have on the team right now. If we could extend Betts and XB first (atleast those two), then go after some free agents. We have to prioritize extensions and then see what we have to work with.

[moonslav59]

Bautista might be an easier signing, less years than EE, though maybe not less money necessarily. He could play OF when called upon.

 

Carlos Santana (although his club option should get picked up).

 

Matt Holliday (although his club option should get picked up)

 

Yoenis Cespedes (has an opt-out)

 

Carlos Gomez (he's waking up as of late, which I suspected he would). He may cost significantly less to sign than anyone out there.

 

Carlos Beltran (as long as he doesn't leave the bat on his shoulders when the game is on the line... )

 

We could move HanRam to DH, Shaw to 1B, and kick the tires on Justin Turner ( If Moncada isn't quite ready ).

 

All honesty, I'd rather sure-up some of the young players we have on the team right now. If we could extend Betts and XB first (atleast those two), then go after some free agents. We have to prioritize extensions and then see what we have to work with.

 

We tried to get Beltran at the deadline, so I think he may be the most likely option.

 

I feel less secure about 3B/1B/DH than LF though, so I don't think Beltran would be my first choice. I do like the idea of seeking out a 2 year contract over the 5+ EE will get.

 

If we sign a 1Bman, either he or HanRam has to sit at an NL park. That leaves 3B. Although we'll probably have one of these guys do well enough to be a plus next year, there's still doubt: Shaw, Moncada, Pablo, Hernandez & Rutledge. Here's the FA 3Bmen this winter:

 

Daniel Descalso

Martin Prado

Justin Turner

Luis Valbuena

 

Danny Valencia could probably be gotten for very cheap. He's got one arb left.

 

Maybe Turner could be an option, but I'm not sure adding another 3Bman who is not a sure bet to win the position to the mix is going to be a viable option with our off season budget.

.

 

[cp176]

Just look at all the posts last year on HanRam.

 

He's still the same roller coaster HanRam, but he's just currently on the rising part of the ride.

 

Next year, we'll wish we had traded him while his stock was high. (My guess.)

 

Last year was of course as we all know last year. No one was particularly excited about Hanley's left field experiment. His injury certainly didn't do much for the Red Sox faithful either. All that being said the guy has played an adequate first base and is happy physically and mentally. 26/100+ is tough to argue against. I operate on the premise of what have you done lately. i like what he has and is doing. I don't understand why anyone would want to trade him.

[cp176]

A lineup with EE right in the middle of it - Hanley at first - a trade for a top young pitcher would be right up my alley. I am quite content to let Mr. Henry decide how he wants to spend his money. I have faith in DD's leadership and guidance as well.

[moonslav59]

Last year was of course as we all know last year. No one was particularly excited about Hanley's left field experiment. His injury certainly didn't do much for the Red Sox faithful either. All that being said the guy has played an adequate first base and is happy physically and mentally. 26/100+ is tough to argue against. I operate on the premise of what have you done lately. i like what he has and is doing. I don't understand why anyone would want to trade him.

 

I explained why. It's okay to disagree, and there's a significant chance he will do well for some or most of his remaining 2-3 years here, but his history is the epitome of a roller coaster career and he's now on the wrong side of prime.

 

I'm glad he's doing well this year, and we may not have a chance without him continuing so. I don't really want to talk bad about him in the middle of a championship run, so let's talk more this winter and certainly next year after we see which HanRam shows up. If he's herre and doing great, I'll be glad to admit I was wrong, But I think $22M for DH is too much.

 

[S5Dewey]

I think $22M for DH is too much.

 

 

I agree. It is too much.... unless that $22M guy is the difference between finishing in or out of the playoffs. [i know, no guarantees!] I also thought $13M was too much for a #5 starter in 2013 but IMO we wouldn't have gotten there without him.

 

All salaries are a crap shoot. In my perfect world the player's salaries would be decided after the season was over and would be dependent on their production during the previous year, but that's just MY perfect world and it's not going to happen.

[Palodios]

Why isn't anyone talking about Mike Napoli? He's got 34 HRs on the year, with a big OPS. He'll cost a comp pick, but 2015 is looking more and more like an aberration.

[moonslav59]

I agree. It is too much.... unless that $22M guy is the difference between finishing in or out of the playoffs. [i know, no guarantees!] I also thought $13M was too much for a #5 starter in 2013 but IMO we wouldn't have gotten there without him.

 

All salaries are a crap shoot. In my perfect world the player's salaries would be decided after the season was over and would be dependent on their production during the previous year, but that's just MY perfect world and it's not going to happen.

 

Well, the assumption is, and that's all it is, is that we can spend the $22M saved in a better way.

 

I really don't want to rain on HanRam's parade. He's doing great, and I don't want to badmouth him in the middle of a championship drive.

 

I'm glad here's here now. It did not surprise me that he bounced back.

[moonslav59]

Why isn't anyone talking about Mike Napoli? He's got 34 HRs on the year, with a big OPS. He'll cost a comp pick, but 2015 is looking more and more like an aberration.

 

I was a huge Napoli supporter, even through the slumps and K fests.

 

I'm glad he bounced back.

 

If we decide to move HanRam to DH or trade him, I suppose Naps could be an option here.

[Nick]

Pass on Napoli.....why the love affair with the guy that was big part of Sox trending downward?

 

Move on, quit romanticizing the past. Hell he's definitely past his prime. Spend the money more wisely. I don't want to see a 180 strike out guy in this dynamic lineup.

[Palodios]

Pass on Napoli.....why the love affair with the guy that was big part of Sox trending downward?

 

Move on, quit romanticizing the past. Hell he's definitely past his prime. Spend the money more wisely. I don't want to see a 180 strike out guy in this dynamic lineup.

 

One more time. 34 HR already, .860 OPS. Besides last year he has floated from .800 to 1.000 ops. Strikeouts aren't satisfying but they mean higher pitchcounts, which Nap has generally been good at.

 

If he can be had for two years, I definitely prefer that to 4 years of Edwin or Jose.

[moonslav59]

It's all relative. Naps cost will be less than many many other options.

 

I'm not saying I want him here next year, but he's been a little more consistent than HanRam, so who knows.

[Nick]

DD if nothing else is programmatic. He's methodical when addressing needs.

 

#1 off season issue = lining up the bullpen

#2 off season issue = additional depth/upgrade at starting pitching

#3 off season issue = dealing with not having Ortiz

 

Koji, Ziegler and Tazawa are all free agents. I have a bad feeling JF is high on Tazawa. I will scream if he says Tazawa struggled because he was overworked.

 

On paper, we look to be strong with our five, assuming Wright returns to norm. What to do with Clay....good grief, it's never easy with the guy.

 

It maybe that we go next year with what we have, plug in Hanley and Young at DH, move around Shaw and Moncada.

 

It should be a fun winter. White Sox may be ready to go young. What are we willing to give up?

[moonslav59]

It's hard to imagine losing Papi, not adding anyone on offense and still being a top 3 or 4 offense, but I think we can.

 

We have 9 guys with an OPS over .800 counting Beni. Losing Papi and not counting Beni still leaves us with 7!

 

Asking Moncada and Beni to make up for Papi's loss is foolish, but they should help minimize the loss.

 

1) Pedey

2) Bogey

3) Betts

4) HanRam

5) JBJ

6) Shaw v R/ Young v L

7) Beni

8) Moncada v R/ Shaw or ??? v L

9) Leon

 

That's a nice line-up right there. Holt, Hernandez, Vazquez, Swihart in reserve is pretty nice too.

 

If we bring Buch back, our rotation looks pretty strong and maybe deep enough:

 

Price, Porcello

Wright, Pomeranz, ERod

Buch

Kelly, Elias, Johnson, Owens (maybe Kopech late in the season)

 

Only the pen needs serious help, but with Smith returning, we only need 2 solid arms of 3 decent ones:

 

Kimbrel

_____

Smith

_____

Ross

Barnes

(Kelly) Abad, Hembree, (Elias), Scott, (Johnson, Owens)

 

Edited September 18, 2016 by moonslav59

[Nick]

Any idea how soon in 2017 Smith will be ready?

[S5Dewey]

It's hard to imagine losing Papi, not adding anyone on offense and still being a top 3 or 4 offense, but I think we can.

 

We have 9 guys with an OPS over .800 counting Beni. Losing Papi and not counting Beni still leaves us with 7!

 

Asking Moncada and Beni to make up for Papi's loss is foolish, but they should help minimize the loss.

 

1) Pedey

2) Bogey

3) Betts

4) HanRam

5) JBJ

6) Shaw v R/ Young v L

7) Beni

8) Moncada v R/ Shaw or ??? v L

9) Leon

 

That's a nice line-up right there. Holt, Hernandez, Vazquez, Swihart in reserve is pretty nice too.

 

If we bring Buch back, our rotation looks pretty strong and maybe deep enough:

 

Price, Porcello

Wright, Pomeranz, ERod

Buch

Kelly, Elias, Johnson, Owens (maybe Kopech late in the season)

 

Only the pen needs serious help, but with Smith returning, we only need 2 solid arms of 3 decent ones:

 

Kimbrel

_____

Smith

_____

Ross

Barnes

(Kelly) Abad, Hembree, (Elias), Scott, (Johnson, Owens)

 

 

I don't think there's any doubt in anyone's mind that losing Papi is going to negatively affect our offense, and I don't think there's any way we're going to "replace" him. EE might do the job, but at what price? Let's remember that there are other ways to win besides bashing the ball.

 

I like your pitching staff going forward and I believe it'll be overall better than this year's. I'm not expecting 20 from Porcillo again but I wouldn't be surprised to see Price pick up whatever wins Porcillo doesn't get. Don't forget, Price has 8 losses this year and I'm expecting better from him in 2017.

 

I like your team as constructed, but I notice that HanRam is in the middle of it. Does this mean that you've softened on trading him?

 

I think my position on 'solid up the middle' has been pretty well documented here and I see the 2017 team as being solid up the middle defensively, and our entire OF (all four of them) may be the best 4-man outfield in baseball, defensively and cumulatively, offensively too. A bit short on power but they'll pick that up in OPS.

 

My only concerns about 2017 at this moment are 3B and the bullpen. 3B is what it is and it probably won't sort itself out until Spring Training - when anyone we might want to pick up for that position has already been signed by someone else. But, as I said, it is what it is, and worse things have happened than being "stuck" with Shaw or Moncada at 3B. And bullpen arms are a crap shoot and always have been. They need to make intelligent signings and hope for the best there.

Edited September 18, 2016 by S5Dewey