Postseason Happenings 2016

[a700hitter]

You have said many times that if Ben didn't have the authority or power to overrule Lucchino, then he should leave. Sure, Theo could have waited Lucchino out, but who knew how long that would be? Would you wait in a job situation like that for 10-15 years (or maybe more), especially when another job comes along in which you get full autonomy?

 

I am fairly certain that if given the choice between staying here with the type of power that Dombrowski has or going to Chicago, Theo would have stayed here. You can't really fault Theo for leaving under the circumstances in which he did.

I never said that Ben should leave if he had no authority to overrule LL, never mind saying it many times. Please don't put words in my mouth and then attribute those words to me "many times".

 

Second, if I was working in my dream job as GM for my favorite team -- the Boston Red Sox, I would not leave the job voluntarily under any circumstances that I can imagine. Theo grew up as a Red Sox fan, and he turned his back on his dream job.

Edited November 5, 2016 by a700hitter

[Spudboy]

I never said that Ben should leave if he had no authority to overrule LL, never mind saying it many times. Please don't put words in my mouth and then attribute those words to me "many times".

 

Second, if I was working in my dream job as GM for my favorite team -- the Boston Red Sox, I would not leave the job voluntarily under any circumstances that I can imagine. Theo grew up as a Red Sox fan, and he turned his back on his dream job.

 

Maybe pussy was involved?

[Bellhorn04]

Theo is living the dream now.

[a700hitter]

He didn't grow up as a Cubs fan.

[Bellhorn04]

His place in baseball history is much larger now than it could have been by staying with the Sox.

[a700hitter]

Hired gun

[Spudboy]

Non-issue.

[Eddy Ballgame]

Hired gun

 

Looks like it worked.

[a700hitter]

Yep it did.

[Kimmi]

I never said that Ben should leave if he had no authority to overrule LL, never mind saying it many times. Please don't put words in my mouth and then attribute those words to me "many times".

 

Second, if I was working in my dream job as GM for my favorite team -- the Boston Red Sox, I would not leave the job voluntarily under any circumstances that I can imagine. Theo grew up as a Red Sox fan, and he turned his back on his dream job.

 

The job was Theo's dream job when he started. The job lost its appeal because he was not allowed his philosophical ideals in building a team. He was 'forced' to make moves that went against his beliefs. He didn't turn his back on his dream job. He walked away from a job that he was clearly unhappy with.

 

Theo had no idea what might have happened if he tried to 'wait it out'. You are kidding yourself if you think he should have.

[Kimmi]

Maybe pussy was involved?

 

Two thumbs down.

[Spudboy]

Two thumbs down.

 

So you don't believe that his girlfriend or Wife had anything to do with his decision to leave?

 

I say that it's possible.

[Dojji]

I fail to see how Chicago is all that much better a place to live or socialize than Boston. If you're going to be living in a big city, from a wife-of-a-big-name's perspective one city is as good as another, really.

 

Getting away from the relentless, and relentlessly negative, Boston media had to be nice though -- but on the other hand, Chicago media is not exactly gentle either. It is, however, far less utterly negative.

 

Nah, the decision to leave was about professional frustration with the decisionmakers above him in Boston combined with a Cubs franchise desperate to break its curse, offering him the keys to the kingdom if he thought he could be the one to do it. In that environment, if I thought I could fill the job the Cubs asked for, I'd move on too. Having full creative control over a franchise, even one I didn't grow up rooting for, is far more of a "dream job" than playing for the correct laundry but being in a stressful power struggle within the franchise heirarchy year in, year out.

Edited November 6, 2016 by Dojji

[cp176]

What I find amazing is how many people here truly seem to know why Theo left Boston. All good guesswork I think unless you are on the inside. Maybe you are! I'm not. What he has done makes for a good story. For me - that's it. I know nothing about him - that would include is philosophical approach to anything as well. He is in the past for me. I'm looking forward to 2017. I like the direction that our current GM looks to be taking our team in.

[Dojji]

I think you're overlooking the fact that a lot of the power struggle in the Sox FO spilled into the media. There are moves that we know were "Larry moves." Front and center among them is the Beckett trade -- that one worked out mostly in our favor and helped us win a championship in 2007, but it also cost us some major assets -- the trade cost us Hanley Ramirez throughout his most productive seasons. Anibal Sanchez had a few very productive years at his peak too. The dispute over that trade boiled over and went public, and there had been hints of Larry meddling in on-field personnel decisions for years afterward.

 

The rest is speculation based on common sense and backed by the fact that he DID leave and signed on with the Cubs -- after being promised exclusive control. That's something someone frustrated with executive meddling at his old job would demand. And since we know that Theo did express frustration with executive meddling and even threatened to quit in 2005 over the extent of the meddling... it's not hard to put it together.

 

I mean normally I'd agree that baseless speculation isn't the best way to get to the truth, but this isn't baseless speculation -- the information has been out there for anyone willing to pay any attention at all to the foibles of the FO over that period of time.

[georom4]

Theo left the Sox because he had already accomplished what he set out to do - the Cubs job would allow him to cement his rep as the best GM ever if he could win a title. He did it for legacy more than pay of because of frustration with the Sox. Just let it go and be happy for the guy. He deserves all the credit that is being thrown his way. The only one I feel badly for is Francona. I'm not much of a fan of his Sox managing but he was amazing in this playoff and totally out-managed Maddon. He deserved to win as well.

[Kimmi]

So you don't believe that his girlfriend or Wife had anything to do with his decision to leave?

 

I say that it's possible.

 

Maybe I don't like the crude and degrading way that you refer to his girlfriend or wife?

[Kimmi]

I fail to see how Chicago is all that much better a place to live or socialize than Boston. If you're going to be living in a big city, from a wife-of-a-big-name's perspective one city is as good as another, really.

 

Getting away from the relentless, and relentlessly negative, Boston media had to be nice though -- but on the other hand, Chicago media is not exactly gentle either. It is, however, far less utterly negative.

 

Nah, the decision to leave was about professional frustration with the decisionmakers above him in Boston combined with a Cubs franchise desperate to break its curse, offering him the keys to the kingdom if he thought he could be the one to do it. In that environment, if I thought I could fill the job the Cubs asked for, I'd move on too. Having full creative control over a franchise, even one I didn't grow up rooting for, is far more of a "dream job" than playing for the correct laundry but being in a stressful power struggle within the franchise heirarchy year in, year out.

 

Perfectly said Dojji.

[Kimmi]

What I find amazing is how many people here truly seem to know why Theo left Boston. All good guesswork I think unless you are on the inside. Maybe you are! I'm not. What he has done makes for a good story. For me - that's it. I know nothing about him - that would include is philosophical approach to anything as well. He is in the past for me. I'm looking forward to 2017. I like the direction that our current GM looks to be taking our team in.

 

Theo > > > > > > Dombrowski

 

It's not even close, really.

[Kimmi]

I think you're overlooking the fact that a lot of the power struggle in the Sox FO spilled into the media. There are moves that we know were "Larry moves." Front and center among them is the Beckett trade -- that one worked out mostly in our favor and helped us win a championship in 2007, but it also cost us some major assets -- the trade cost us Hanley Ramirez throughout his most productive seasons. Anibal Sanchez had a few very productive years at his peak too. The dispute over that trade boiled over and went public, and there had been hints of Larry meddling in on-field personnel decisions for years afterward.

 

The rest is speculation based on common sense and backed by the fact that he DID leave and signed on with the Cubs -- after being promised exclusive control. That's something someone frustrated with executive meddling at his old job would demand. And since we know that Theo did express frustration with executive meddling and even threatened to quit in 2005 over the extent of the meddling... it's not hard to put it together.

 

I mean normally I'd agree that baseless speculation isn't the best way to get to the truth, but this isn't baseless speculation -- the information has been out there for anyone willing to pay any attention at all to the foibles of the FO over that period of time.

 

Another perfectly stated post.

 

It's not difficult to put two and two together.

[oldtimer]

For those of you who are into the league happenings, there is a good synopsis in the following site: http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/2016-17-mlb-offseason-free-agency-winter-meetings-other important-dates/

 

The GM meeting in Scottsdale is coming up tomorrow and goes for three days. The winter meetings take place Dec 5th through the 8th in Maryland. Many other details of when key dates are hit.

[cp176]

Theo > > > > > > Dombrowski

 

It's not even close, really.

 

Theo has done a wonderful job. In terms of championships who can argue his resume. I'm glad that you think so highly of him. I don't know him. I really have no idea why he chose to go to Chicago. I'll reiterate - unless you were (are) on the inside you don't really know either. What we know is that he left. I'm glad for you that you think he is >>> than DD. Personally this isn't really about comparing two individuals. I think that DD is a competent GM and that works very well for me.

[cp176]

I think you're overlooking the fact that a lot of the power struggle in the Sox FO spilled into the media. There are moves that we know were "Larry moves." Front and center among them is the Beckett trade -- that one worked out mostly in our favor and helped us win a championship in 2007, but it also cost us some major assets -- the trade cost us Hanley Ramirez throughout his most productive seasons. Anibal Sanchez had a few very productive years at his peak too. The dispute over that trade boiled over and went public, and there had been hints of Larry meddling in on-field personnel decisions for years afterward.

 

The rest is speculation based on common sense and backed by the fact that he DID leave and signed on with the Cubs -- after being promised exclusive control. That's something someone frustrated with executive meddling at his old job would demand. And since we know that Theo did express frustration with executive meddling and even threatened to quit in 2005 over the extent of the meddling... it's not hard to put it together.

 

I mean normally I'd agree that baseless speculation isn't the best way to get to the truth, but this isn't baseless speculation -- the information has been out there for anyone willing to pay any attention at all to the foibles of the FO over that period of time.

 

 

There is merit to much of what you say. The but is that I choose to question much of what the media tries to shove down my throat. I will not speculate who was responsible for what particular moves were. I really don't care who was responsible for making them. My concern is the outcome of the moves that are made. If I do not know someone personally - if I have not been told directly why they left a position - it is speculation based on what someone else has either written or said as to why they left. If you think that there is compelling evidence influencing your beliefs and opinions, I think that is good for you. I really don't operate that way. I need to be a little closer to the issue before I offer my take.

[Dojji]

I have no problem with that, especially given my opinion of the media. Just as long as you're not holding it against a guy when he used the best available information to reach a judgment call.

[cp176]

If it is a personal question - of course not - I don't carry grudges. If I did, it is likely that they would be against someone that I actually knew. Now - using the best available information - or at least what we think is the best available information to formulate our opinions is what we do. But, what appears to be to us the best available information still can be painted with prejudice. I have read what is readily available to read with respect to what has and is going on in the Red Sox front office. I still have no favorites. Actually I could care less about who the GM or President or whoever is in charge as long as the job gets done. I am simply just a fan. Maybe just simple though because my concern is really focused on the product performing on the field. Honestly, I like leadership to be less needy. I have been very satisfied to date with DD. I'm happy for all that Theo, Ben, Larry, etc.etc.etc. did for us but in the end they are just as replaceable as anyone else. I'm sure that I am not the only one who has actually experienced that.

[a700hitter]

If it is a personal question - of course not - I don't carry grudges. If I did, it is likely that they would be against someone that I actually knew. Now - using the best available information - or at least what we think is the best available information to formulate our opinions is what we do. But, what appears to be to us the best available information still can be painted with prejudice. I have read what is readily available to read with respect to what has and is going on in the Red Sox front office. I still have no favorites. Actually I could care less about who the GM or President or whoever is in charge as long as the job gets done. I am simply just a fan. Maybe just simple though because my concern is really focused on the product performing on the field. Honestly, I like leadership to be less needy. I have been very satisfied to date with DD. I'm happy for all that Theo, Ben, Larry, etc.etc.etc. did for us but in the end they are just as replaceable as anyone else. I'm sure that I am not the only one who has actually experienced that.

I am like you in that I root for team on the field, not the one wearing suits. I don't care who those people are and for the most part I would not know who they were if I passed them on the street. Maybe I am just old school. LOL!

[cp176]

Old school! Of course you are. I think. It's good that some of us still exist. In all honesty though, what does it mean? Old schoolers that I know tend to be in the middle with respect to many of their beliefs whether they are sport oriented or whatever else. Traditionalists I guess who need to actually hear both sides before they form an opinion. Some tend to think that we are close minded - I don't agree. I still learn something new everyday and am very open to new ideas. It is doubtful though that I am going to let someone else make up my mind for me.

 

With respect to leaders, isn't that the way it goes - too much credit when things go well and too much blame when things don't work out. A real leader to me is someone who doesn't crave the spotlight.

[Bellhorn04]

I cheer for the laundry too, but to me, like it or not, the laundry includes the suits (Dombrowski).

[a700hitter]

Old school! Of course you are. I think. It's good that some of us still exist. In all honesty though, what does it mean? Old schoolers that I know tend to be in the middle with respect to many of their beliefs whether they are sport oriented or whatever else. Traditionalists I guess who need to actually hear both sides before they form an opinion. Some tend to think that we are close minded - I don't agree. I still learn something new everyday and am very open to new ideas. It is doubtful though that I am going to let someone else make up my mind for me.

 

With respect to leaders, isn't that the way it goes - too much credit when things go well and too much blame when things don't work out. A real leader to me is someone who doesn't crave the spotlight.

I have always been amused/annoyed at the prospect of someone telling me that I am not open-minded because I don't agree with them, especially when they show no willingness to listen to my arguments. What is more annoying are those people who think they know what my opinion will be with regard to a hypothetical situation. I don't even know myself.

[a700hitter]

I cheer for the laundry too, but to me, like it or not, the laundry includes the suits (Dombrowski).

Do you collect FO trading cards?