Postseason Happenings 2016

[Bellhorn04]

Kimmi can hold a grudge too...she will never forgive Damon.

[Spudboy]

Kimmi can hold a grudge too...she will never forgive Damon.

 

I do not believe that Kimmi can be stubborn.

 

You lie.

 

Take that back!!

[Slasher9]

He didn't flat out leave us. He was more or less 'forced' to leave because of Lucchino. You know that's true.

 

in all fairness there was that time with the gorilla suit....

[Bellhorn04]

in all fairness there was that time with the gorilla suit....

 

That was Lucchino too. Larry very bad man.

[Dojji]

in all fairness there was that time with the gorilla suit....

 

Which was also about Theo vs Lucky. Lucky wanted to promote the team and had too much power so he was always forcing name brand trades and name brand signings. Name brand moves have their place, but not as often as Lucky wanted to do them. The problem that cost us Theo is that Luccino absolutely would not and could not subordinate promotional tasks to a second rank, below franchise building. As long as Lucchino was going to be that way about it we were never going to keep Theo indefinitely. A two way power struggle in the head office is never a good thing, especially when one of the two is a baseball deity and the other one very much is not.

[S5Dewey]

Which was also about Theo vs Lucky. Lucky wanted to promote the team and had too much power so he was always forcing name brand trades and name brand signings. Name brand moves have their place, but not as often as Lucky wanted to do them. The problem that cost us Theo is that Luccino absolutely would not and could not subordinate promotional tasks to a second rank, below franchise building. As long as Lucchino was going to be that way about it we were never going to keep Theo indefinitely. A two way power struggle in the head office is never a good thing, especially when one of the two is a baseball deity and the other one very much is not.

 

As I've said before, the thing Larry knows how to do is to make money. Other than that he's essentially useless in a baseball organization. It's unfortunate that JH wasn't strong enough to have put Larry in his place and told him to keep his nose out of the baseball end of the organization. Then we could have kept them both.

[mvp 78]

IF Theo wanted to stay, he would have figured it out.

[Slasher9]

how about lester got exactly what Theo sold him. "sign with the cubs and bring the WS championship to the longest suffering fans".

grady little, i mean maddon almost ruined it for them.

[Kimmi]

He asked for permission to interview with the Cubbies. I will not forgive that.

 

Because you need a reason to detract from Theo's accomplishments.

 

He asked for permission to interview because he was forced to leave.

[Kimmi]

Kimmi can hold a grudge too...she will never forgive Damon.

 

Well, in fairness to me, Damon is no Theo.

[Kimmi]

That was Lucchino too. Larry very bad man.

 

Which was also about Theo vs Lucky. Lucky wanted to promote the team and had too much power so he was always forcing name brand trades and name brand signings. Name brand moves have their place, but not as often as Lucky wanted to do them. The problem that cost us Theo is that Luccino absolutely would not and could not subordinate promotional tasks to a second rank, below franchise building. As long as Lucchino was going to be that way about it we were never going to keep Theo indefinitely. A two way power struggle in the head office is never a good thing, especially when one of the two is a baseball deity and the other one very much is not.

 

As I've said before, the thing Larry knows how to do is to make money. Other than that he's essentially useless in a baseball organization. It's unfortunate that JH wasn't strong enough to have put Larry in his place and told him to keep his nose out of the baseball end of the organization. Then we could have kept them both.

 

Yes, yes, and yes.

[a700hitter]

Because you need a reason to detract from Theo's accomplishments.

 

He asked for permission to interview because he was forced to leave.

i don't detract from his accomplishments at all. Didn't you read my earlier post? But I will never forgive him for leaving the Red Sox. The fact that he has been successful increases my resentment.

[Kimmi]

IF Theo wanted to stay, he would have figured it out.

 

He didn't want to stay working for Lucchino, whose philosophy deeply opposed his own. Working under Lucchino meant that Theo had to sacrifice his organizational philosophy and integrity. If you want to blame him for leaving under those conditions, go right ahead. I can't blame him for leaving.

[Kimmi]

how about lester got exactly what Theo sold him. "sign with the cubs and bring the WS championship to the longest suffering fans".

grady little, i mean maddon almost ruined it for them.

 

The Allure of the Cubs...

[Kimmi]

i don't detract from his accomplishments at all. Didn't you read my earlier post? But I will never forgive him for leaving the Red Sox. The fact that he has been successful increases my resentment.

 

You are resenting the wrong person.

[a700hitter]

He didn't want to stay working for Lucchino, whose philosophy deeply opposed his own. Working under Lucchino meant that Theo had to sacrifice his organizational philosophy and integrity. If you want to blame him for leaving under those conditions, go right ahead. I can't blame him for leaving.

He could have outlasted Lucchino

[mvp 78]

He could have outlasted Lucchino

 

Yup.

[sk7326]

He didn't want to stay working for Lucchino, whose philosophy deeply opposed his own. Working under Lucchino meant that Theo had to sacrifice his organizational philosophy and integrity. If you want to blame him for leaving under those conditions, go right ahead. I can't blame him for leaving.

 

And he's barely 40. Too young to be in one job until you die.

[Spudboy]

My only problem with Theo leaving is that he left those three s*** stains to run the team.

[Bellhorn04]

My only problem with Theo leaving is that he left those three s*** stains to run the team.

 

lol

[Dojji]

He could have outlasted Lucchino

 

He'd been trying since at least 2005. He gutted it out with this unideal situation where he was in permanent conflict with Lucchino for 6 years. 6 years is a long time. How long was he supposed to tough it out when other franchises were willing to offer him full and exclusive control? Especially after 07 when the team won the Series despite their big offseason acquisitions, because Theo had built the team so well.

 

And if Henry saw the damage Lucky was doing to Theo's plans, he didn't acknowledge it in any particular way, and kept giving Lucchino equal say in the team to Theo, which is exactly where the problem lay.

 

Even if Henry thought Lucchino was an equal genius in building the team financially, to Theo's baseball acumen, a front office is too small for 2 Indian chiefs. You either subordinate Theo to Lucky or Lucky to Theo so the team and FO are both moving in the same direction. Pick one. Either one being subordinate to the other is better than this thing where they're both struggling for overall control. That way lies utter dysfunction.

 

Ultimately this is on John Henry. He tried to have it both ways and wound up losing both Theo and Lucky in the end.

Edited November 5, 2016 by Dojji

[a700hitter]

my only problem with theo leaving is that he left those three s*** stains to run the team.

lol!

[a700hitter]

You are resenting the wrong person.

I have plenty of resentment to go around, but Theo was not being fired. He was very young when he left. With a little patience, he would have inherited the keys to the kingdom. He couldn't wait. He left. Screw him.

[Dojji]

Theo owed us nothing.

[a700hitter]

No one said that he owed us.

[Eddy Ballgame]

I have plenty of resentment to go around, but Theo was not being fired. He was very young when he left. With a little patience, he would have inherited the keys to the kingdom. He couldn't wait. He left. Screw him.

 

Theo Epstein said that no one should be in the same position for an organization for more than 10 years. He left Boston just shy of 10 years. He won't be in Chicago forever, either. Some of his best friends say that he has interest in politics. He'll do whatever he wants at this point.

 

Ben Cherington left the Sox and decided to "teach" sports management at Ivy League Columbia U. He'll do whatever he wants moving forward as well. As Sox fans, we were lucky to have them both for as long as we did, as they are two guys who are very rarely not the "smartest guy in the room."

[Spudboy]

No one said that he owed us.

 

I guess not many people here have spent years upon years of working with and for major d-bags.

 

I have done it. And for a lot less money than Theo.

 

a700 has a valid point. If Theo had stuck around he could have ruled baseball in Boston for a long time.

 

He chose to cash in and bolted.

 

I've done that too. The problem is that major d-bags exist everywhere.

 

The grass is only greener for a while.

[Bellhorn04]

Theo hit the jackpot when he went to the Cubs. He got all the power he wanted, more money than he dreamed of, and he gave the Cubs their title right on schedule in 5 years, cementing his legacy and securing his place in the Hall of Fame.

[Kimmi]

I have plenty of resentment to go around, but Theo was not being fired. He was very young when he left. With a little patience, he would have inherited the keys to the kingdom. He couldn't wait. He left. Screw him.

 

You have said many times that if Ben didn't have the authority or power to overrule Lucchino, then he should leave. Sure, Theo could have waited Lucchino out, but who knew how long that would be? Would you wait in a job situation like that for 10-15 years (or maybe more), especially when another job comes along in which you get full autonomy?

 

I am fairly certain that if given the choice between staying here with the type of power that Dombrowski has or going to Chicago, Theo would have stayed here. You can't really fault Theo for leaving under the circumstances in which he did.

[Bellhorn04]

People can fault him all they want. He acted in his own best interests, sure. It worked out pretty well for him. I somehow doubt he regrets it.