Postseason Happenings 2016

[Dojji]

THis Cleveland team is starting to look like it could play 9 with the devil and his angels and come out on top. It's time to admit that the Red Sox simply were not on the level for most of this year that the Guardians have taken their game to this postseason. They got HFA because they were a better team, and they took advantage of it because they were a better team. And it's beginning to look like they're a better team than Chicago too with all its high priced high power talent. No one could have seen that coming. Amazing how it goes sometime.

[Bellhorn04]

Cleveland is on a serious roll.

 

On paper, the Cubs should have a huge advantage tonight, with Bauer starting and Miller unavailable.

 

On paper.

[Slasher9]

Tito is 9-0 in the World Series. G.O.A.T.

[bosoxmal]

Pay attention, D.D. to someone who knows what he's talking about: Bradley and Bogaerts for Lindor. Who knows, maybe Cleveland will go for it!

[Kimmi]

This will make my fellow posters happy. It's still not true, but it will make you happy nonetheless.

 

CHICAGO (CBS) — The belief of some baseball observers is that a manager has minimal impact on teams winning games. That may have been closer to the truth in another era, as the Guardians’ 1-0 win against the Cubs in Game 3 of the World Series on Friday night demonstrated.

 

With bullpen decisions to be made from the fourth inning on these days, it’s evident that Guardians manager Terry Francona and Cubs manager Joe Maddon are deeply involved in the outcome of these contests on baseball’s biggest stage.

 

Pete Abraham ‏@PeteAbe 3h3 hours ago

 

Can a manager get MVP? Tito has been on his game.

[Dojji]

Do you think Tito might be a little motivated to make a point to the guy who fired him?

[oldtimer]

Pay attention, D.D. to someone who knows what he's talking about: Bradley and Bogaerts for Lindor. Who knows, maybe Cleveland will go for it!

 

Lindor and Betts have a lot in common. Fast, athletic, great attitude and of course off limits.

[Bellhorn04]

Do you think Tito might be a little motivated to make a point to the guy who fired him?

 

100%. 2011 was a bad season for him, and Henry & Lucchino pretty much threw him under the bus for it. There was damage done to his reputation.

[Kimmi]

Do you think Tito might be a little motivated to make a point to the guy who fired him?

 

While Francona doesn't strike me as the vindictive type, I know that he was hurt by the way things unfolded at the end of 2011. I'm sure that winning another championship would give him a sense of vindication.

 

However, I'm not sure what that has to do with anything. Tito can be as motivated as he wants to be. That doesn't change the fact that his on field decisions do not have as large an impact on the outcome of the game as most people think they do.

[Bellhorn04]

While Francona doesn't strike me as the vindictive type, I know that he was hurt by the way things unfolded at the end of 2011. I'm sure that winning another championship would give him a sense of vindication.

 

However, I'm not sure what that has to do with anything. Tito can be as motivated as he wants to be. That doesn't change the fact that his on field decisions do not have as large an impact on the outcome of the game as most people think they do.

 

OTOH Tito's move to take Kluber out early in Game 1 could impact tonight's game, and his move to take Tomlin out early last night could impact Game 6, if it gets that far.

[Bellhorn04]

As far as last night's game is concerned, Tito's decision to pinch hit for Miller was pretty impactful, wasn't it?

[Kimmi]

OTOH Tito's move to take Kluber out early in Game 1 could impact tonight's game, and his move to take Tomlin out early last night could impact Game 6, if it gets that far.

 

Of course. But every move has a counter-effect. I know I'm not going to convince you, but each move is not as significant as it seems.

 

That said, I will give Tito kudos for doing a very good job in the postseason. Every move that he makes 'seems' to be the right move.

[Kimmi]

As far as last night's game is concerned, Tito's decision to pinch hit for Miller was pretty impactful, wasn't it?

 

Yes, because it worked. Therefore, the win expectancy changed dramatically after Coco got the hit.

[Bellhorn04]

Of course. But every move has a counter-effect. I know I'm not going to convince you, but each move is not as significant as it seems.

 

I know there is a basis for this line of thought, but the overall implications of it baffle me. It seems to imply that it doesn't matter if the manager leaves the starting pitcher in to get shelled, it doesn't matter if he brings in his worst reliever instead of his best reliever with the game on the line etc.

 

It confounds me, I'm sorry.

[Dojji]

I know there is a basis for this line of thought, but the overall implications of it baffle me. It seems to imply that it doesn't matter if the manager leaves the starting pitcher in to get shelled, it doesn't matter if he brings in his worst reliever instead of his best reliever with the game on the line etc.

 

It confounds me, I'm sorry.

That's because Kimmi's torturing the logic a bit. A manager is there to play the angles. His primary job is to have a good idea which moves have the best chance of working. This is true even when any move has a low chance of working, or when all moves have a very high chance of working. THe fact that there's always a chance a good move will fail, or a bad move will succeed, is irrelevant to that definition of a manager's job description. His job is to know and play the odds. How well he does on the latter usually depends on his knowledge of the former.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

Need some help here. Assuming the Guardians go on to win, Francona will have won championships (as manager) with two different teams. Whitey Herzog never did that. Billy Martin never did that. Joe Torre never did that. Earl Weaver never did that. Bruce Bochy hasn't done that. I could only think of one manager who has done this--he did it with the A's and Cardinals: Tony LaRussa.

 

Has anyone else done this besides LaRussa?

 

EDIT: OK, Sparky Anderson with the Reds and Tigers. I forgot about him. Anyone else or is that it?

[Fan_since_Boggs]

As far as rooting interests go, I've been pulling for the Guardians ever since they eliminated the Red Sox. (1) I like Francona. (2) They haven't won in so long.

 

I've been rooting against the Cubs throughout the playoffs. (1) Theo left us with Carl Crawford. (2) I don't like how Theo treated R.Renteria when Maddon become available. (3) I don't like Joe Maddon. (4) Baseball needs lovable losers like the Cubs.

 

This Guardians team could be really good over the next few years, maybe even a dynasty? They have the starting pitching to win again. Miller is signed for one or two more years. They have arguably the best young SS in the game. They have a HOF manager. That's a pretty nice foundation.

Edited October 30, 2016 by Fan_since_Boggs

[Spudboy]

As far as rooting interests go, I've been pulling for the Guardians ever since they eliminated the Red Sox. (1) I like Francona. (2) They haven't won in so long.

 

I've been rooting against the Cubs throughout the playoffs. (1) Theo left us with Carl Crawford. (2) I don't like how Theo treated R.Renteria when Maddon become available. (3) I don't like Joe Maddon. (4) Baseball needs lovable losers like the Cubs.

 

This Guardians team could be really good over the next few years, maybe even a dynasty? They have the starting pitching to win again. Miller is signed for one or two more years. They have arguably the best young SS in the game. They have a HOF manager. That's a pretty nice foundation.

 

I like this post.

[Kimmi]

That's because Kimmi's torturing the logic a bit. A manager is there to play the angles. His primary job is to have a good idea which moves have the best chance of working. This is true even when any move has a low chance of working, or when all moves have a very high chance of working. THe fact that there's always a chance a good move will fail, or a bad move will succeed, is irrelevant to that definition of a manager's job description. His job is to know and play the odds. How well he does on the latter usually depends on his knowledge of the former.

 

:eek: !!!

 

Except for your first sentence, I have no argument with this post.

[Maxbialystock]

This will make my fellow posters happy. It's still not true, but it will make you happy nonetheless.

 

CHICAGO (CBS) — The belief of some baseball observers is that a manager has minimal impact on teams winning games. That may have been closer to the truth in another era, as the Guardians’ 1-0 win against the Cubs in Game 3 of the World Series on Friday night demonstrated.

 

With bullpen decisions to be made from the fourth inning on these days, it’s evident that Guardians manager Terry Francona and Cubs manager Joe Maddon are deeply involved in the outcome of these contests on baseball’s biggest stage.

 

Pete Abraham ‏@PeteAbe 3h3 hours ago

 

Can a manager get MVP? Tito has been on his game.

 

How quickly folks forget all the bullpen moves Farrell made in September once he got some decent arms. Then, presto magico, Kimbrel took a dive, actually several dives, and of course Farrell got the blame.

 

Let's not forget too that in game 1 of the ALDS Porcello gave up 5 runs in 2 or 3 innings, then Price in game 2 gave up 6 runs in 2 or 3 innings. Porcello and Price took the Sox bullpen (and the manager) out of the equation.

 

I agree managers can make a difference when they have a really good bullpen as both Francona and Maddon have, but let us not forget the role of the GM's involved. The Yankees Cashman dumped both relievers, Chapman and Miller, the pundits are now raving about. The recipients of this largesse were the Cubs GM Theo and the Guardians GM. They correctly figured out that you can't have too many great arms in the bullpen.

 

Where the two managers have sort of broken precedent is in bringing those great arms into the games relatively early and relatively often. The simple rule now seems to be: once you get a lead, hang onto it for dear life. This mostly applies, however, to the postseason. During the regular season you need those starterers eating innings.

[Nick]

I can be an ass pretty frequently.....but let me say this...

 

Good luck to Theo, Lester, Lackey, Ross and the Cubbies. Good luck also to Tito, Napoli and the Guardians.

 

For me, baseball has again taken the center stage. It is the greatest game.

 

I've never been so nervous for a game that has nothing to do with the Sox. I'm in a no loss situation.

 

I'll be happy with whoever wins.....but I'm hoping for a two out, Guardians down one, runners on second and third, bottom of the 9th inning scenario.

[Kimmi]

I can be an ass pretty frequently.....but let me say this...

 

Good luck to Theo, Lester, Lackey, Ross and the Cubbies. Good luck also to Tito, Napoli and the Guardians.

 

For me, baseball has again taken the center stage. It is the greatest game.

 

I've never been so nervous for a game that has nothing to do with the Sox. I'm in a no loss situation.

 

I'll be happy with whoever wins.....but I'm hoping for a two out, Guardians down one, runners on second and third, bottom of the 9th inning scenario.

 

I am really nervous for this game too. I will also be happy for whichever team wins, and I will feel really bad for whichever team loses.

 

Go baseball!

[oldtimer]

It was a big game 7 in which both teams were nervous. In the end, Cleveland pitching was pretty worn down and Kluber in particular showed the wear. Tough management decisions had to be made although I thought Madden's switch from Hendricks was ill advised as he was looking good when taken out. I would have been happy with either team winning. Good end to the season.

[Dojji]

This postseason has been fantastic for the sport of baseball in general. People who are normally completely tuned out of baseball were talking about game 7.

[Slasher9]

First off - Congrats to cubs.

That was an EPIC game. I am worn out this morning.

Some observations:

• Cubs won game 7 in spite of Maddon. His decision making was terrible. Especially how he used the Pen.

• In their last 2 world series appearances the Guardians have lost a game 7 in extra innings. Ouch.

• Mother nature is a cubs fan. That rain delay helped them immensely.

• Theo Epstein has to go down immediately as the greatest GM of all time. He was at the helm to break the Red Sox 86 year drought and the Cubs 108 year.

• Ben Zobrist getting the MVP is a joke. He didn’t even have the game winning RBI like everyone is reporting. He should give the Camaro to Rizzo or Schwarber.

• This series was a blessing for MLB. Baseball is back in a big way.

• 3 months until pitchers and catchers. I cannot wait.

[Dojji]

Theo just earned himself a spot in the Hall of Fame for sure. And he's so young! He has decades ahead of him as a GM. Imagine how far he could go!

[a700hitter]

Theo just earned himself a spot in the Hall of Fame for sure. And he's so young! He has decades ahead of him as a GM. Imagine how far he could go!

Kudos to Theo. He has established himself as one of the best GMs in the history of the game. And now I am even more mad that he flat left us. It would have been easier if he had been a failure.

[Kimmi]

Kudos to Theo. He has established himself as one of the best GMs in the history of the game. And now I am even more mad that he flat left us. It would have been easier if he had been a failure.

 

He didn't flat out leave us. He was more or less 'forced' to leave because of Lucchino. You know that's true.

[Kimmi]

This postseason has been fantastic for the sport of baseball in general. People who are normally completely tuned out of baseball were talking about game 7.

 

Agreed. Everyone was talking about baseball and the Cubbies today.

 

Great series.

[a700hitter]

He didn't flat out leave us. He was more or less 'forced' to leave because of Lucchino. You know that's true.

He asked for permission to interview with the Cubbies. I will not forgive that.