Red Sox Acquire Drew Pomeranz

[Bellhorn04]

I won't get into the whole Margot & Guerra package, but even after the Kimbrel trade, I still felt we could have gotten someone very special for Swihart, Devers plus maybe one or two from Holt/Hernandez/Marrero/Dubon, Chavis/Travis, Owens/Johnson/TBall or maybe even Kopech.

 

Which someone very special, exactly? Let's have a specific name or two.

[Kingface]

It's nice that Pomeranz still has upside potential or at least a significant chance at continuing his recent trend.

 

He's a big plus to our rotation over the next 2.4 seasons.

 

The big minus of losing Espi won't hit us until after Pom is gone.

 

This^^^^^^

 

This entire thread/trade is pretty much summed up with this post.......

[dustcover]

Going into the season we were looking at a rotation of:

 

Price

Buccholz

Kelly

Porcello

Rodriquez

 

Now going into the second half of the season,

 

Price

Porcello

Wright

Rodriguez

Pomeranz

 

with O'Sullivan available for spot starts.

 

Sure, I'd love to see another 'ace' on the staff, but I'm nonetheless feeling much better now regarding the rotation than I was earlier on.

[Dojji]

Thanks for the link. Interesting. I don't think even Beane could have asked for that trade. Not in any serious way of thinking it had a shot.

 

Beane was probably charging an early buyers' premium (charge more because you seem to need the guy right now as opposed to waiting), and the Padres were willing to do the deal immediately.

 

Any price Hill gets in trade at the deadline itself will have to be judged in the perspective that the buying team will get 3 fewer starts out of him. Since our divisional pennant race has 3 teams within three games of the top billing... I consider that significant.

[moonslav59]

Which someone very special, exactly? Let's have a specific name or two.

 

I've racked my brain on this, and it's hard to know how much other GMs value(d) the prospects I have suggested we offer, but I also provided choices, so I keep thinking something was probably outa there.

 

I realize I may have been totally wrong. Either the guys I liked weren't really available without a super massive overpay, or there just plain wasn't any team that matched up with my suggested offers.

 

The names I mentioned most often were Quintana and Salazar with Carrasco and Tyson Ross right up there. Of course, there others like Sale and Gray. Probably none of these guys could have been had without parting with Betts, Bogey, Moncada or Beni. I wasn't against including Beni or Espi in a deal to get one of these guys, but I would have like to have known who the best pitcher we could have gotten for an offer similar to the one above and then compare him to who we might have been able to get by adding Beni or Espi to the offer.

 

I have to think someone like Swihart would be highly sought after. I'd expect teams to overpay for him! Even teams all set at 3B and 1B would love to add Devers to their farm. I also think teams would love to add Holt or Hernandez to their roster, and both might start for many teams. Dubon, Chavis and Travis might be a top 3-5 prospect on several teams. Kopech, TBall, Owens and Johnson still hold some value.

 

I would think Teheran could be had for a package of 2-3 of these guys, but I'm not that high on him, and it appears the Braves are too high, period. Sonny Gray might be an option, but the A's are in no hurry to trade him while his stock may have dipped slightly this season. Matt Moore or Odorizzi are two names, but maybe the Rays won't trade with the Sox.

 

I have to think someone special is out there. I'm offering several "some specials" to get him.

 

Anybody out there have a suggestion on who we might get for these guys?

[moonslav59]

Beane was probably charging an early buyers' premium (charge more because you seem to need the guy right now as opposed to waiting), and the Padres were willing to do the deal immediately.

 

Any price Hill gets in trade at the deadline itself will have to be judged in the perspective that the buying team will get 3 fewer starts out of him. Since our divisional pennant race has 3 teams within three games of the top billing... I consider that significant.

 

3 fewer starts this year and then 2 less full seasons.

[moonslav59]

Going into the season we were looking at a rotation of:

 

Price

Buccholz

Kelly

Porcello

Rodriquez

 

Now going into the second half of the season,

 

Price

Porcello

Wright

Rodriguez

Pomeranz

 

with O'Sullivan available for spot starts.

 

Sure, I'd love to see another 'ace' on the staff, but I'm nonetheless feeling much better now regarding the rotation than I was earlier on.

 

Maybe ERod's last start is a sign of good things to come. The fact that Pomeranz is not a 4/5 slot pitcher, IMO, takes away the need to get 2 SP'ers at the deadline. If something happens, there's always a waiver wire deal possible.

[Nick]

Our 2nd half schedule is brutal with hardly any days off.....here's to our starting five staying healthy and not have a huge letdown

[dustcover]

Beane was probably charging an early buyers' premium (charge more because you seem to need the guy right now as opposed to waiting), and the Padres were willing to do the deal immediately.

 

Any price Hill gets in trade at the deadline itself will have to be judged in the perspective that the buying team will get 3 fewer starts out of him. Since our divisional pennant race has 3 teams within three games of the top billing... I consider that significant.

 

On the flip side of that coin, if a contending team suffers some losses between now and the deadline, their urgency and degree of desperation will certainly factor into the equation which I'm quite sure Beane will take advantage of. That '3-fewer-starts perspective' in itself may be offset by how anxious a team is to bolster their starting pitching for the stretch run of the regular season and particularly for the playoffs. Personally, I consider that to be quite significant.

[Dojji]

Yeah, attrition could be a big factor in some team overpaying for Hill, but I take DD's word for it that the price at the time was roughly the same for Pomeranz and Hill, and in that case I'd 1000x rather pay for Pomeranz.

 

I don't agree that the eventual price Hill is traded for will be a factor in evaluating this trade. Just because, say, the Blue Jays land Hill for a price that we consider lesser than Espinosa doesn't mean that either Beane or DD valued the same players the same way. Also for a pure rental like Hill, those 3 extra starts you get or don't, are a much bigger part of the overall value discussion.

[Hitch]

Beane was probably charging an early buyers' premium (charge more because you seem to need the guy right now as opposed to waiting), and the Padres were willing to do the deal immediately.

 

Any price Hill gets in trade at the deadline itself will have to be judged in the perspective that the buying team will get 3 fewer starts out of him. Since our divisional pennant race has 3 teams within three games of the top billing... I consider that significant.

 

I accept there is an early buyers charge. I don't accept Beane really thought he could get a hugely rated talent for a few months rental of an injury prone 36 year old pitcher.

 

He's not getting anywhere close to that and everyone knows it.

[Palodios]

Which someone very special, exactly? Let's have a specific name or two.

 

This is the key problem. I'm not a huge fan of Dombo's moves, but he does like going for the best guys available. This season, Pomeranz was exactly that.

 

It just seems to be silly to pay "best guy available" prices for a guy like Pomeranz.

[Nick]

This is the key problem. I'm not a huge fan of Dombo's moves, but he does like going for the best guys available. This season, Pomeranz was exactly that.

 

It just seems to be silly to pay "best guy available" prices for a guy like Pomeranz.

 

Espinoza's value today is only good for what we can get in a trade for him...Pomeranz...otherwise it's Zero. Everyone wants to value the kid at wat he might be at 2021. As in any investment, future value is discounted for time.

[User Name]

People who get paid to scout and evaluate talent for a living think the addition of an above-average cutter and overall mechanical improvements make Pomeranz' breakthrough sustainable. If the scouts know this, so does San Diego and the other 10 teams that were s***ing all over themselves to trade for Pomeranz. They paid "best guy available" price because this kid may have begun fulfilling on the promise that made him a top 5 pick.

[S5Dewey]

This is the key problem. I'm not a huge fan of Dombo's moves, but he does like going for the best guys available. This season, Pomeranz was exactly that.

 

It just seems to be silly to pay "best guy available" prices for a guy like Pomeranz.

 

There's a word for it. "Desperation". It's said that anything is worth what a willing buyer will pay a willing seller in an arm's length transaction. The Sox are in the middle of a pennant drive and the desperately needed a pitcher. They also have (or had) the resources to pay for him so BB went to the team with the deepest pockets - The Sox - and the Sox probably overpaid for him in an arm's length transaction. It's what happens this time of year.

[User Name]

Damned if you do, damned if you don't indeed.

[Palodios]

People who get paid to scout and evaluate talent for a living think the addition of an above-average cutter and overall mechanical improvements make Pomeranz' breakthrough sustainable. If the scouts know this, so does San Diego and the other 10 teams that were s***ing all over themselves to trade for Pomeranz. They paid "best guy available" price because this kid may have begun fulfilling on the promise that made him a top 5 pick.

 

I fully understand Pomeranz's breakout. He could be the real deal, a cost controlled #2.

 

My concern is health/durability. We needed someone to be this rotation's savior for 100 more IP, and then ask him to pitch 30-50 more IP in the playoffs. Is Pomeranz that guy?

[a700hitter]

There's a word for it. "Desperation". It's said that anything is worth what a willing buyer will pay a willing seller in an arm's length transaction. The Sox are in the middle of a pennant drive and the desperately needed a pitcher. They also have (or had) the resources to pay for him so BB went to the team with the deepest pockets - The Sox - and the Sox probably overpaid for him in an arm's length transaction. It's what happens this time of year.

The price was high and we are short on pitching. Standing pat was not really an option, because the same shortage of pitching would need to be addressed in the offseason. As UN said, DD was damned if he did and damned if he didn't. I would add that he was in a "you can pay me now or pay me later" situation.

[Dojji]

Agreed, and let's consider another angle.

 

let's say that Pomeranz gets through this season as a Padre, or on a different team, and does live up to the billing.

 

Does anyone honestly think that at that point any team that wanted to trade for him, with those further 2 years of control, could get away with paying nothing but an A ball teenager, however high the ceiling is, for a guy like that?

 

Scouts are saying this year's version of Pomeranz is for real and that it's very possible that the breakout can be sustained. If that is the case, we got him at a discount. The pitcher Pomeranz was projected to be at the draft was every bit as good as Espinosa's projections when we acquired him, if he has had his breakout and reached that potential, then we traded a top 5 prospect for the guy top 5 prospects try to become and cashed on on the lion's share of Espinosa's potential 5+ years early. Trading large unproven potential for a reality nearly as large is always a good trade.

Edited July 17, 2016 by Dojji

[Hitch]

If Pomeranz is for real and the breakout can be sustained, we have pulled off a fantastic trade!

[Hugh2]

So after a few days to ponder, read some scouting reports, watch some video, contemplate, get some rest, and get a few home cooked Colombian meals I think I've come around on this trade. I never really hated Pomeranz, and I actually advocated trading for him as opposed to Teheran weeks earlier in the trade thread. I only had a problem with the value the Sox gave up. Sometimes I don't necessarily disagree with a stance, but I have a problem with the argument. As someone who is prospect lover (or nut huger if you want to be a dick about it), and believes in building from within I guess I feel like people found it easy to discount the value we gave up and some of the red (perhaps more yellow at this point) flags around Pomeranz. I get it, as the old saying goes "a bird in hand is worth two in the bush" and this is the price of admission for a team that has a real chance to compete in the post season this year.

 

With that said, I had a real problem with people thinking we sold high on Espinozas status based on his A league stats; he's the youngest player in the league and tiring mechanics likely is playing a large function of his performance. The sky is still the limit with this kid. Also, I found it very misleading and inappropriate to compare Owens to Espinoza because the greater scouting community that hypes up Espinoza as a potential true TOTRS and ace never had that level of praise for Henry Owens. The real risk with Espinoza, is his youth and his size, which is someone mitigated by his increase in size and his smooth mechanics and delivery that allows him to throw in the high 90's with ease and little wear and tear. However on the other side of the equation you have a guy like Pomeranz who by many accounts has made real adjustments making his new found status as a real TOTRS very real. I think you also can't discount DD's history of finding guys like Pomeranz and what we think he can be here. The only real guy that DD ever traded away that turned into a complete stud was Randy Johnson, but if you look at what he got back for him it wasn't exactly a bad trade.

 

Again, this is the price of admission and I don't think we should discount the fact that the Sox F.O. has shown the team that they are invested in them, and are going for it. Trading away Espinoza might come back to bite us in the ass one day, but if Pomeranz gives us a real chance to win this year and helps the team for the following two it's a good trade. As I've said before, the other team has to think they've won the trade for the trade to work. Another narrative that I had a problem with is that Teheran would have cost Espinoza plus 2 other top prospects. There is a difference between what a team asks and what they get, I'd be willing that San Diego's very first proposal probably involved Espinoza+ or Moncada+ and something along the lines of DD offering a multip Prospect package or a you can have 1 of these guys not named Moncada or Benintendi took place. I would not be surprised if in an parallel universe a team like Atlanta would easily fold and be happy with just Espinoza for Teheran; however I'm very glad we traded for Pomeranz instead.

 

Stepping back and looking at the big picture, DD has filled just about ever hole on this team. He brought in a RHH bat that can play multiple positions and take touch LHP at bats at 3B, he brought in a late innings reliever, and he brought in a guy who can perform at the top of the rotation. Considering this team has the best offense in baseball, and the potential for better internal performance in their pitching I think these moves will be HUGE down the stretch.

 

As I said multiple pages back, I think you can hate and love this trade at the same time but I think I'm a bit more excited about it now that I was earlier.

Edited July 17, 2016 by A Red Sox fan named Hugh

[a700hitter]

So after a few days to ponder, read some scouting reports, watch some video, contemplate, get some rest, and get a few home cooked Colombian food I think I've come around on this trade. I never really hated Pomeranz, and I actually advocated trading for him as opposed to Teheran weeks earlier in the trade thread. I only had a problem with the value the Sox game up. Sometimes I don't necessarily disagree with a stance, but I have a problem with the argument. As someone who is prospect lover (or nut huger if you want to be a dick about it), and believes in building from within I guess I feel like people found it easy to discount the value we gave up and some of the red (perhaps more yellow at this point) flags around Pomeranz. I get it, as the old saying goes "a bird in hand is worth two in the bush" and this is the price of admission for a team that has a real chance to compete in the post season this year.

 

With that said, I had a real problem with people thinking we sold high on Espinozas status based on his A league stats; he's the youngest player in the league and tiring mechanics likely is playing a large function of his performance. The sky is still the limit with this kid. Also, I found it very misleading and inappropriate to compare Owens to Espinoza because the greater scouting community that hypes up Espinoza as a potential true TOTRS and ace never had that level of praise for Henry Owens. The real risk with Espinoza, is his size, which is someone mitigated by his increase in size and his smooth mechanics and delivery that allows him to throw in the high 90's with ease and little wear and tear. However on the other side of the equation you have a guy like Pomeranz who by many accounts has made real adjustments making his new found status as a real TOTRS very real. I think you also can't discount DD's history of finding guys like Pomeranz and what we think he can be here. The only real guy that DD ever traded away that turned into a complete stud was Randy Johnson, but if you look at what he got back for him it wasn't exactly a bad trade.

 

Again, this is the price of admission and I don't think we should discount the fact that the Sox F.O. has shown the team that they are invested in them, and are going for it. Trading away Espinoza might come back to bite us in the ass one day, but if Pomeranz gives us a real chance to win this year and helps the team for the following two it's a good trade. As I've said before, the other team has to think they've won the trade for the trade to work. Another narrative that I had a problem with is that Teheran would have cost Espinoza plus 2 other top prospects. There is a difference between what a team asks and what they get, I'd be willing that San Deigos very first proposal probably involved Espinoza+ or Moncada+ and something along the lines of DD offering a multip Prospect package or a you can have 1 of these guys not named Moncada or Benintendi took place. I would not be surprised if in an parallel universe a team like Atlanta would easily fold and be happy with just Espinoza for Teheran; however I'm very glad we traded for Pomeranz instead.

 

Stepping back and looking at the big picture, DD has filled just about ever hole on this team. He brought in a RHH bat that can play multiple positions and take touch LHP at bats at 3B, he brought in a late innings reliever, and he brought in a guy who can perform at the top of the rotation. Considering this team has the best offense in baseball, and the potential for better internal performance in their pitching I think these moves will be HUGE down the stretch.

 

As I said multiple pages back, I think you can hate and love this trade at the same time but I think I'm a bit more excited about it.

Is this your way of saying that you were suffering from low blood sugar a few days ago?

[cp176]

So after a few days to ponder, read some scouting reports, watch some video, contemplate, get some rest, and get a few home cooked Colombian meals I think I've come around on this trade. I never really hated Pomeranz, and I actually advocated trading for him as opposed to Teheran weeks earlier in the trade thread. I only had a problem with the value the Sox gave up. Sometimes I don't necessarily disagree with a stance, but I have a problem with the argument. As someone who is prospect lover (or nut huger if you want to be a dick about it), and believes in building from within I guess I feel like people found it easy to discount the value we gave up and some of the red (perhaps more yellow at this point) flags around Pomeranz. I get it, as the old saying goes "a bird in hand is worth two in the bush" and this is the price of admission for a team that has a real chance to compete in the post season this year.

 

With that said, I had a real problem with people thinking we sold high on Espinozas status based on his A league stats; he's the youngest player in the league and tiring mechanics likely is playing a large function of his performance. The sky is still the limit with this kid. Also, I found it very misleading and inappropriate to compare Owens to Espinoza because the greater scouting community that hypes up Espinoza as a potential true TOTRS and ace never had that level of praise for Henry Owens. The real risk with Espinoza, is his youth and his size, which is someone mitigated by his increase in size and his smooth mechanics and delivery that allows him to throw in the high 90's with ease and little wear and tear. However on the other side of the equation you have a guy like Pomeranz who by many accounts has made real adjustments making his new found status as a real TOTRS very real. I think you also can't discount DD's history of finding guys like Pomeranz and what we think he can be here. The only real guy that DD ever traded away that turned into a complete stud was Randy Johnson, but if you look at what he got back for him it wasn't exactly a bad trade.

 

Again, this is the price of admission and I don't think we should discount the fact that the Sox F.O. has shown the team that they are invested in them, and are going for it. Trading away Espinoza might come back to bite us in the ass one day, but if Pomeranz gives us a real chance to win this year and helps the team for the following two it's a good trade. As I've said before, the other team has to think they've won the trade for the trade to work. Another narrative that I had a problem with is that Teheran would have cost Espinoza plus 2 other top prospects. There is a difference between what a team asks and what they get, I'd be willing that San Diego's very first proposal probably involved Espinoza+ or Moncada+ and something along the lines of DD offering a multip Prospect package or a you can have 1 of these guys not named Moncada or Benintendi took place. I would not be surprised if in an parallel universe a team like Atlanta would easily fold and be happy with just Espinoza for Teheran; however I'm very glad we traded for Pomeranz instead.

 

Stepping back and looking at the big picture, DD has filled just about ever hole on this team. He brought in a RHH bat that can play multiple positions and take touch LHP at bats at 3B, he brought in a late innings reliever, and he brought in a guy who can perform at the top of the rotation. Considering this team has the best offense in baseball, and the potential for better internal performance in their pitching I think these moves will be HUGE down the stretch.

 

As I said multiple pages back, I think you can hate and love this trade at the same time but I think I'm a bit more excited about it.

 

Wait - what?

[Hugh2]

Wait - what?

 

You want a summary?

 

Sox gave up a special talent

 

They got great present value.

 

They are showing they are going for it this year and helping their team for the following 2.

 

DD has a good track record and has been working to plug every hole on this team this year. He got a bullpen arm, a RHH infield bat, and a good starting pitcher.

 

Espinoza is a stud. Pomeranz might see even better days ahead.

[User Name]

Espinoza COULD be a stud. Pomeranz MIGHT retain his improvement. Such is the beauty of baseball.

[Hugh2]

Espinoza COULD be a stud. Pomeranz MIGHT retain his improvement. Such is the beauty of baseball.

 

Point taken, what I meant was he's a stud in prospectedum.....which I guess should be analogous with could be.

[NativeBostonian]

What I've heard is we could have had a rental in Hill for Espinoza. I say the Red Sox made a good move. Side note: Hill left the game today with injury after only throwing 5 pitches.

[Hugh2]

What I've heard is we could have had a rental in Hill for Espinoza. I say the Red Sox made a good move. Side note: Hill left the game today with injury after only throwing 5 pitches.

 

I heard that too, but I think that was Oaklands asking price, I'm sure they would have settled for less. Hill is much older than Pomeranz, with less control, and more injury risk.

[NativeBostonian]

I heard that too, but I think that was Oaklands asking price, I'm sure they would have settled for less. Hill is much older than Pomeranz, with less control, and more injury risk.

Who knows. These teams with pitchers for sale are in a position of power. If there isn't much out there (like there isn't) and there is a need, you're going to get a lot for a guy with a couple question marks. It's a sellers market this season.

[Bellhorn04]

If Rich Hill is injured the pickings are REALLY slim now.