Making History

[Jasonbay44]

Well this thread was an interesting read. I just have one thing to add: Raisin Brand sucks.

[Youk Of The Nation]

So you're clearly just ignoring me now. Since this thread is destined to not become a place for anything other than rehashing BDC board problems, I guess it's going to close.

[User Name]

Well this thread was an interesting read. I just have one thing to add: Raisin Brand sucks.

 

You can't even park right, your opinion doesn't matter.

[Emp9]

Roger Clemens - 1999-2003, 2007. Former Yankees trainer Brian McNamee said he injected Clemens with growth hormone and steroids. Clemens denied using banned drugs and sued McNamee for defamation.

 

Andy Pettitte - 1995-2003, 2007. McNamee said he injected Pettitte with human growth hormone to heal a shoulder injury. Pettitte acknowledged using the drugs.

 

Kevin Brown - 2004-2005. From 2001, when he was a Dodger, to 2004, when he was a Yankee, Brown bought human growth hormone and steroids from former Mets batboy and confessed steroid dealer Kirk Radomski, Mitchell wrote.

 

Mike Stanton - 1997-2002; 2005. While a Yankee, Stanton met Radomski, Mitchell wrote. In 2003, after Stanton had joined the Mets, Radomski delivered growth hormone to him at Shea Stadium.

 

Denny Neagle - 2000. While a Yankee, Neagle met Radomski in a nightclub and bought growth hormone from him five or six times in four years, Mitchell wrote.

 

Jason Grimsley - 1999-2000. Grimsley bought $35,000 worth of drugs from Radomski while on the Yankees and three other teams, Mitchell wrote. In the Yankees bullpen in 2000, Grimsley showed steroid pills to McNamee, Mitchell wrote.

 

Ricky Bones - 1996. In 2000, when he was with the Florida Marlins, syringes and steroids were found in Bones' locker, Mitchell wrote. Bones said he got the drugs in Puerto Rico to treat a degenerative hip.

 

Ron Villone - 2006-2007. Villone bought growth hormone from Radomski in 2004 and 2005, while on the Mariners, Mitchell wrote. After he joined the Yankees, Villone called Radomski seeking more drugs, but by then federal agents had targeted the dealer, Mitchell wrote.

 

Dan Naulty - 1999. While with the Twins, he bought steroids from dealers in gyms, but stopped using the drugs when he joined the Yankees, Mitchell wrote. In a first-person article in the New York Daily News, Naulty implied he continued to use steroids and growth hormone with the Yankees.

 

Todd Williams - 2001. Radomski said he sold steroids to Williams in 2001.

 

Carlos Almanzar - 2001. With Texas in 2005, he was suspended 10 days for failing a steroid test.

 

Felix Heredia - 2003-04. With the Mets in 2005, he was suspended 10 days for failing a steroid test.

 

Darren Holmes - 1998. He told Sports Illustrated that in 2003, with the Braves, he bought growth hormone from an online pharmacy but never used it.

 

Josias Manzanillo - 1995. Radomski said he injected Manzanillo with steroids on the Mets in 1994. Manzanillo said he bought steroids but never used them.

OTHERS

 

Bobby Estalella - Catcher, 2001. Told the BALCO grand jury that in 2002, with the Rockies, he got growth hormone and BALCO steroids from Greg Anderson, Barry Bonds' trainer.

 

Jim Leyritz - Catcher, 1990-1996, 1999-2000. He told the New York Post he used growth hormone during spring training 2001 in a failed attempt to catch on with the Mets.

 

Jason Giambi - First baseman, 2002-2007. He told the BALCO grand jury he obtained growth hormone and BALCO steroids from Anderson in 2002 and 2003.

 

Hal Morris - First baseman, outfielder, 1988-1989. While with the Reds in 1999, Morris bought steroids from Radomski, Mitchell wrote. Morris denied it.

 

Chuck Knoblauch - Infielder, 1998-2001. McNamee said he injected Knoblauch with growth hormone in 2001. Knoblauch also bought growth hormone from Grimsley, McNamee told Mitchell.

 

Randy Velarde - Infielder, 2001. Obtained BALCO steroids from Anderson, the player's lawyer said. Drug agents saw Velarde in the BALCO parking lot in 2002, while he was on the Oakland A's.

 

Jose Canseco - Outfielder, 2000. The self-proclaimed steroid pioneer joined the Yankees for the 2000 pennant run.

 

Glenallen Hill - Outfielder, 2000. Mitchell wrote that Hill bought human growth hormone from Radomski in 2000. Radomski said Hill, a former Giant, complained that growth hormone he had obtained in San Francisco was ineffective. Hill told Mitchell he bought steroids from Radomski but never used the drugs.

 

David Justice - Outfielder, 2000-2001. Mitchell wrote that Justice bought growth hormone from Radomski after the 2000 World Series. Justice denied using the drugs.

 

Gary Sheffield - Outfielder, 2004-2006. Sheffield told the BALCO grand jury that at Bonds' instruction, he used BALCO steroids after the 2003 season, when he was about to join the Yankees. He said he didn't know the substances were steroids until later.

 

Matt Lawton - Outfielder, 2005. He was suspended 10 days for failing a steroid test in 2005.

 

Rondell White - Outfielder, 2002. Radomski said he delivered drugs to White's New York residence in 2002.

 

(Please forgive the outright plagiarism Slash)

[Dojji]

Guys..... stop. Please. Just stop. you're opening a new topic from a thread you know YOTN closed, and you're doing it to restart an argument that you know was the whole reason the thread was closed. All to pursue a vendetta against a single poster *who has broken zero rules on this forum*

 

At the very very least, this thread belongs in the "Damn Yankees" forum. If it belongs anywhere, which I don't believe it does.

 

Leave the BDC crap in BDC. Drop the vendetta against Babe until he proves *here* that he deserves it. Unlike you BDC folks we know how to deal with those people. If he steps out of line here he's going to get swatted and he knows it, so he's doing the smart thing, and staying just inside the rules. that's exactly what a good troll does if he wants to be a regular, it's a sign that the system works, and Babe gets it.

 

Right now it's you guys who are just completely failing to understand how the game works. Babe is behaving like a very abrasive but contributing member of the community so going after him in any way is far more likely to get you guys sanctioned than him. So for the love of God let us deal with them, this is a well moderated forum, believe it or not we have seen and banned trolls before and they have NOT come back. There is no need for this kind of aggressive personal vendetta here. Drop it.

 

If you can't drop it, you will wind up dropped. This is not a threat, this is a warning based on things we've already seen happen with other refugees from the BDC forum. We've already lost a couple BDC guys because they didn't seem to believe they needed to listen to the moderator and could just say whatever and keep picking fights after *repeatedly* being told to let it drop. Again THIS IS A WELL MODERATED FORUM, and that means that the Sox fans have to behave too and so far here just counting Talksox posts (which are the only ones I get to see) you guys have trolled Babe *FAR FAR MORE* than Babe has trolled you. I'm getting tired of reading this, and YOTN is as agitated over your antics as I've ever seen him. For your own sakes guys, LET IT GO!

Edited May 26, 2016 by Dojji

[User Name]

"You BDC folks" is a terrible statement. The argument is stemming from 3-4 people. Blanket statements like that are stupid Dojji.

 

Otherwise, seriously people, drop it.

[Dojji]

Sure, but it's 3-4 folks from BDC. Any group of people has to deal with the reputation the worst people of that group earns them. If the 3-4 agitators can't see how it's tarnishing the rep of the rest of the guys who are coming over from that forum, that's kind of on them.

[User Name]

No it isn't. You can't s*** on a group of 20 people because 3-4 are being annoying.

[Dojji]

You can when those 3-4 keep casting it as a group issue (a BDC specific issue with trolling by Babe)

[Palodios]

This is in the wrong place, but seems like a legit topic to me. I don't have much to add -- We've known Yankees are cheaters for a long time, haven't we?

 

Alex Rodriguez was oddly ommited here though.

[Dojji]

By the looks of the list, whoever compiled it (this was clearly copy-pasted) did so before the A-Rod scandal broke.

 

I'm reacting the way I am because this list was already posted in another thread that YOTN locked because it became a series of personal attacks on a particular poster who was a Yankee fan (not Jacko, a new guy, who I don't want to name because that will just derail things further). So to see Emp9 come in and start a new thread with a post from a locked thread... well, it's at least highly fishy and it does suggest a continuation of that vendetta.

 

Even worse because all that Yankee fan said to set this off was common knowledge about Papi's positve test in 2003 and its impact on his Hall of Fame chances. There was nothing wrong with that post so the whole vendetta seems to someone who doesn't come from BDC to be about nothing.

 

I do love the energy and excitement a lot of the guys coming over from BDC bring, and I'm glad they're here, I've said that before and I stand by it and any more who want to come over will be welcome as far as I'm concerned. I just wish some of them could leave their vendettas against certain posters back at the old forum until those people demostrate they're up to the same antics here -- which in the case of that particular Yankee fan, hasn't happened yet.

Edited May 26, 2016 by Dojji

[mvp 78]

There is a Yankees forum on here, correct? So why put this here?

[Slasher9]

The list was from a 2008 article.

we can now also add:

Alex Rodriguez

Francisco Cervelli

[Slasher9]

ooops. almost forgot these yankees as well:

 

Fernando Martínez

Sergio Mitre

Ryan Baker

Moises Cedeno

[Dojji]

And all of them with much stronger direct allegations than anything that has been cofirmed on Ortiz

[Slasher9]

For comparison sake here is a list of Boston Red Sox players:

[mvp 78]

For comparison sake here is a list of Boston Red Sox players:

 

Manny Ramirez

Manny Alexander

David Ortiz

[illinoisredsox]

Don't forget the 50 man major league roster they had in the late 50's. Whether they needed a piece to shore up a position or they wanted to season a prospect for a year or so, they their "farm" team in Kansas City to do the job.

[Slasher9]

For comparison sake here is a list of Boston Red Sox players that were suspended by MLB:

[mvp 78]

David Ortiz

Manny Ramirez

Paxton Crawford

Manny Alexander

Jose Canseco

Mo Vaughn

Chris Donnels

Mike Lansing

Kent Mercker

Mike Stanton

Eric Gagne

Brendan Donnelly

Josias Manzanillo

[Slasher9]

is that the list of Red Sox players who were suspended for PED use?

[Dojji]

Most of those don't come up to the same standard of evidence that applied to the majority of the Yankees in the initial list. To get on that list you had to have confirmed sourced allegations at the very least -- in other words not only some nebulous accusation, but having someone say they knew where you got your drugs and put their own name to that as a source.

 

that said the Yankees are well known for "buying high" on top performers, and in the steroid era, it was a matter of fact that that would net you a disproportionate number of steroid abusers.

[mvp 78]

is that the list of Red Sox players who were suspended for PED use?

 

List of players who have ties to steroids or have been suspended for steroids (Ramirez/Alexander).

[Maxbialystock]

David Ortiz

Manny Ramirez

Paxton Crawford

Manny Alexander

Jose Canseco

Mo Vaughn

Chris Donnels

Mike Lansing

Kent Mercker

Mike Stanton

Eric Gagne

Brendan Donnelly

Josias Manzanillo

 

Ortiz was of course never suspended. Indeed the one failed test in 2003 was a precursor to the regular testing MLB and the MLBPA finally agreed upon in 2004. There is zero evidence Ortiz used PED's during his best years in Boston.

[mvp 78]

Donnie Sadler

 

Paxton Crawford story:

 

"During minor league spring training with the Red Sox in 1999, some of the other guys saw I was hurting. They told me that if I took this stuff, it would make the pain go away and cut my recovery time in half. Shoot, why not? I'm just a country boy; I didn't even think twice.

"I was probably using the most back in 2001, when I made the Red Sox rotation out of spring training. About that time I was getting pretty big, and another player introduced me to human growth hormone, which had started to make the rounds in the majors. I got a kit with two bottles: One was filled with some kind of water, and the other was filled with these tiny crystals. I put a few drops into the crystals and -- poof! -- it became liquid. I thought, Boy, what the hell are you putting into your body? But I did it anyway.

 

"Back in 2001, I thought I was the man. I had no shame, and I thought nobody could touch me. One time, I walked right into the Red Sox clubhouse with a bunch of needles wrapped in a towel and left them on my chair. A few minutes later, one of my teammates came running over, saying, 'Paxton, someone knocked your chair over and your freaking needles are all over the floor!' Man, we just died about that. He said it was the funniest thing he'd ever seen, told me I was nuts. But that's the way it was back then."

Edited May 26, 2016 by mvp 78

[Slasher9]

another great example of that yankees "style":

Clearly, Alex Rodriguez was willing to stoop to any means necessary to win a game; even if that meant bush league tactics like yelling “mine” behind an infielder.

[mvp 78]

Ortiz was of course never suspended. Indeed the one failed test in 2003 was a precursor to the regular testing MLB and the MLBPA finally agreed upon in 2004. There is zero evidence Ortiz used PED's during his best years in Boston.

 

And the vast majority of Yankees noted above were pre-Mitchell Report too.

[Slasher9]

the "Yankees Way"

Jeter was awarded the base in the seventh inning of Wednesday night’s 4-3 loss to Tampa Bay when plate umpire Lance Barksdale ruled he was hit on the left arm by reliever Chad Qualls‘ pitch. Turns out Jeter bluffed his way on base, admitting after the game that the pitch actually hit his bat.

 

[mvp 78]

http://archive.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2009/08/02/sox_fired_two_in_steroids_case/

 

The security staffers said they were dismissed after what they termed a cursory inquiry by Major League Baseball, and very limited questioning by the team - even though one of the guards says he swapped advice about steroids with David Ortiz’s close friend and personal assistant.

 

Both men said they told investigators they had no direct knowledge of steroid use by Red Sox players, including Manny Ramírez or Ortiz, both of whom were named in a New York Times report last week as having tested positive for performance-enhancing drugs in 2003.

 

But, in interviews with the Globe, both revealed clubhouse details that could have fueled a more zealous inquiry. And the investigation did not even resolve the basic question of where the steroids the security staffer was caught with came from.

 

“I’m sure they were hoping I didn’t know anything,’’ said Jared Remy, one of the security staffers who lost his job. “It’s like they didn’t want to know. It’s like: Do we really want to know or do we just want it to go away?’’

[TheBabeStrikesBack]

C'mon guys, we all know that during the PED era that the Sawx were the ONLY clean team in both leagues, everone else cheated!!