Sox Pitching Staff Discussion

[Emp9]

... Wrapped inside mysteries.

[Yaz Fan Since 67]

It just demonstrates what a horrific pitching situation the Cherington-Lucchino brain trust left us with.

 

So true but it's not like it wasn't obvious. If you look at it objectively this entire pitching staff has performed light years better than last year. So it's probably not a championship staff but I'm honestly wondering how realistic that leap was.

 

I read where ERod has been tipping his pitches. If he can correct that and make the adjustment to stop favoring the knee I really believe he will shore up the back end of the rotation.

[mvp 78]

Yup, should have traded for a pitcher once ERod went down.

[Kimmi]

We've had way too many enigmas the last 3 seasons.

 

We have, but the degree of our enigmatic pitching (and offense) really is inexplicable.

[Kimmi]

Yup, should have traded for a pitcher once ERod went down.

 

Except that ERod was only supposed to be 'down' for a few days.

[Spudboy]

Except that ERod was only supposed to be 'down' for a few days.

 

I don't remember hearing this.

 

He dislocated his kneecap.

 

Who thought that injury was a quick fix?

[Kimmi]

I don't remember hearing this.

 

He dislocated his kneecap.

 

Who thought that injury was a quick fix?

 

There were plenty of articles and statements made that initially indicated this injury was nothing serious:

 

From NESN - “It was a scare because I feel like I broke my knee,” Rodriguez said, via WEEI.com. “It’€™s fine now. It was a scare like that but I’€™m going to be fine.” “Going through the training room assessment, unable to reproduce any kind of discomfort."

 

From Boston.com - "He was initially expected to miss a few days, as he had no damage to the ligaments or cartilage in his knee," "The timeline for Eduardo Rodriguez’s knee injury only seems to get longer."

 

From RedSox.com - "Knee injury to sideline E-Rod a few days" "The Red Sox are hopeful that the injury is nothing more than a brief annoyance."

[Spudboy]

There were plenty of articles and statements made that initially indicated this injury was nothing serious:

 

From NESN - “It was a scare because I feel like I broke my knee,” Rodriguez said, via WEEI.com. “It’€™s fine now. It was a scare like that but I’€™m going to be fine.” “Going through the training room assessment, unable to reproduce any kind of discomfort."

 

From Boston.com - "He was initially expected to miss a few days, as he had no damage to the ligaments or cartilage in his knee," "The timeline for Eduardo Rodriguez’s knee injury only seems to get longer."

 

From RedSox.com - "Knee injury to sideline E-Rod a few days" "The Red Sox are hopeful that the injury is nothing more than a brief annoyance."

 

Well now I have seen them!!!!!

 

Funny how I knew it was more serious than the press let on ( which is what the Sox FO fed them ).

 

Only Jacko and myself saw this coming and made the call.

 

"as he had no damage to the ligaments or cartilage in his knee". This is laughable.

[Nick]

Why no confidence in Ross by JF? He had Ross warming up prior to 7th inning. I get it that Tazawa, Koji and Kimbrel usually pitch 7, 8 and 9 and it worked out just fine yesterday.

 

Ross has pitched well this year. Seattle started 8 hitters on the left side. Ross has been continued to be looked over by JF. He needs to build some depth at the back end. Tazawa can't get anyone out in Toronto line up. He probably doesn't fare much better against Baltimore, our two competitors for the playoff spots. He actually thinks Holt is a legimate starting left fielder...ugh.

 

I just want him gone next year.

[Bellhorn04]

Why no confidence in Ross by JF? He had Ross warming up prior to 7th inning. I get it that Tazawa, Koji and Kimbrel usually pitch 7, 8 and 9 and it worked out just fine yesterday.

 

Ross has pitched well this year. Seattle started 8 hitters on the left side. Ross has been continued to be looked over by JF. He needs to build some depth at the back end. Tazawa can't get anyone out in Toronto line up. He probably doesn't fare much better against Baltimore, our two competitors for the playoff spots. He actually thinks Holt is a legimate starting left fielder...ugh.

 

I just want him gone next year.

 

Everybody here wanted Holt to start in left over Castillo. Well, almost everybody I guess.

[S5Dewey]

Meh. I see the fact that E-Rod been tipping his pitches as good news. It means that maybe his stuff isn't as bad as we'd dreaded, it's something that should be easily curable and we should be able to see the real E-Rod (for better or worse) soon.

 

And in a topic remotely related to one of my posts in another thread, this is yet another thing that I'm surprised at but like learning: That the position of the thumb on his glove hand tips what pitch he's throwing. I mean, it's so slight... who notices that stuff? And then who can relate it to the pitch he's throwing? It makes me think that nearly all of these major league players know a lot more than we give them credit for sometimes.

[Nick]

when a guy only throws two pitches, how hard is to get a read on his pitches?

[Nick]

I rather see Swihart in left field....Holt's value lies in his ability to play multiple positions. His hitting always fades. Holt vs Castillo is a false choice.

[moonslav59]

Everybody here wanted Holt to start in left over Castillo. Well, almost everybody I guess.

 

I never wanted Holt to be a FT'er anywhere. I had called for Swihart to get some reps in LF and/or 1B/3B long ago. I also liked Young more than Holt, but maybe not against righties. A Swihart/Young platoon projected to be way better than Holt FT.

 

I though Castillo should have at least gotten a longer look this year, but I can understand why he didn't. To me, it was a toss-up between Holt and Castillo.

[Bellhorn04]

I rather see Swihart in left field....Holt's value lies in his ability to play multiple positions. His hitting always fades. Holt vs Castillo is a false choice.

 

Well, it might be a 'false choice' now, but it wasn't at the beginning of the year, when Swihart was a catcher.

[moonslav59]

Well, it might be a 'false choice' now, but it wasn't at the beginning of the year, when Swihart was a catcher.

 

That was a "false choice" management made to not givemore Swihart reps in LF.

[Bellhorn04]

That was a "false choice" management made to not givemore Swihart reps in LF.

 

I disagree. Swihart was the #1 catcher at the start of the year. They didn't know how long it would be until Vazquez was ready. Then when they sent Swihart down they started giving him those reps in left. Seems like unfounded criticism to me.

[mvp 78]

[cp176]

That was a "false choice" management made to not givemore Swihart reps in LF.

 

I would be very surprised if Swihart becomes the left fielder for the Sox going forward.

[harmony]

In light of the near-perfect game today by Atlanta righthander Julio Teheran, I thought I would compare the relative merits of the 25-year-old starter and top Red Sox prospect Yoan Moncada.

 

In 2012 Teheran was a Top 5 prospect when he was four months older than Moncada was this year when Moncada was a Top 5 to 7 prospect, according to rankings at Baseball America, MLB.com and Baseball Prospectus.

 

Teheran made his MLB debut at age 20, 100 days, while Moncada at age 21, 23 days, has yet to play above the High A level.

 

In February 2014 the Braves signed Teheran to a six-year, $32.4 million contract with a 2020 option for a seventh year at a net $11 million.

 

In February 2015, the Red Sox signed Moncada to a $31.5 million bonus (and incurred a penalty of a similar amount). The Red Sox reportedly are paying out the bonus in three annual installments. Moncada would remain under team control through 2023 if the Sox call him up for good in midseason 2017. Barring Super Two status, Moncada would have three years at the league minimum and three arbitration seasons.

 

Teheran is a somewhat established commodity while Moncada is the promising but unproven prospect that Teheran once was.

 

I suspect the Atlanta Braves would not trade Teheran straight up for Moncada in a starting-pitcher market that may overheat if it has not already.

Edited June 19, 2016 by harmony

[moonslav59]

I disagree. Swihart was the #1 catcher at the start of the year. They didn't know how long it would be until Vazquez was ready. Then when they sent Swihart down they started giving him those reps in left. Seems like unfounded criticism to me.

 

I think they knew Vaz would be ready before too long. It wouldn't have hurt giving Swihart reps in LF here and there.

[moonslav59]

I would be very surprised if Swihart becomes the left fielder for the Sox going forward.

 

I never meant to imply I want to see Swihart as our long term LF solution. I just said I liked him better than Holt.

 

Ultimately, I think Swihart will be traded, because his value to another team as a catcher iw way higher than his value to us.

[moonslav59]

I would be very surprised if Swihart becomes the left fielder for the Sox going forward.

 

I never meant to imply I want to see Swihart as our long term LF solution. I just said I liked him better than Holt.

 

Ultimately, I think Swihart will be traded, because his value to another team as a catcher iw way higher than his value to us.

[Nick]

Just finished watching the game (taped it)....I apologize Moon but Kimbrel is worth the young players we gave up. We will have him for another two years if we pick up his option in 2018. At least we now have a closer that can shut down the opposition for a win. It's irrelevant to me that we paid free agent money for Kimbrel. DD wanted this guy at any price. It also is irrelevant how good those kids we traded away turn out to be....we simply traded for an opportunity win now vs post 2018. We'll have chance to reload our farm system (and that is another function of good farm system...acquiring good players now for promise of providing our trading partner with future benefit...can't get something for nothing).

 

Price is also pitching like the guy we signed for $200M+.......I say DD went out and did what he wanted to do except for Carson Smith injury. There was much talk about why the Mariners traded the guy and that's proven to be true. At least we don't have big money tied up with the guy a la Craig, Sandoval and Ramirez.

Edited June 20, 2016 by Nick

[User Name]

Where were the guys we traded going to play? The only relevant argument is whether they could have gotten another starter with that prospect capital.

[a700hitter]

Kimbrel is the best in the game. If you get the best for some guys that are not your top prospects, that is a good acquisition.

[User Name]

Dude's acclimated to playing here, and guys aren't even making contact against him right now.

[moonslav59]

Where were the guys we traded going to play? The only relevant argument is whether they could have gotten another starter with that prospect capital.

 

Yes, my contention was we might have gotten a very nice SP'er for Swihart, Devers + the package we gave for Kimbrel.

 

I'm really done arguing about Kimbrel and his contract. It's great to have a top 3 closer, and he will help us this year.

[moonslav59]

In light of the near-perfect game today by Atlanta righthander Julio Teheran, I thought I would compare the relative merits of the 25-year-old starter and top Red Sox prospect Yoan Moncada.

 

In 2012 Teheran was a Top 5 prospect when he was four months older than Moncada was this year when Moncada was a Top 5 to 7 prospect, according to rankings at Baseball America, MLB.com and Baseball Prospectus.

 

Teheran made his MLB debut at age 20, 100 days, while Moncada at age 21, 23 days, has yet to play above the High A level.

 

In February 2014 the Braves signed Teheran to a six-year, $32.4 million contract with a 2020 option for a seventh year at a net $11 million.

 

In February 2015, the Red Sox signed Moncada to a $31.5 million bonus (and incurred a penalty of a similar amount). The Red Sox reportedly are paying out the bonus in three annual installments. Moncada would remain under team control through 2023 if the Sox call him up for good in midseason 2017. Barring Super Two status, Moncada would have three years at the league minimum and three arbitration seasons.

 

Teheran is a somewhat established commodity while Moncada is the promising but unproven prospect that Teheran once was.

 

I suspect the Atlanta Braves would not trade Teheran straight up for Moncada in a starting-pitcher market that may overheat if it has not already.

 

It's a fair comparison, but I'd hold onto Moncada. I'm really a big get pitching kinda guy, but Moncada's upside to too high to risk.

 

I doubt Swihart, Devers, Kopech or Owens would get him.

[Bellhorn04]

Yes, my contention was we might have gotten a very nice SP'er for Swihart, Devers + the package we gave for Kimbrel.

 

I'm really done arguing about Kimbrel and his contract. It's great to have a top 3 closer, and he will help us this year.

 

It's certainly a valid point that we might have been able to get a decent starter for that package. What we have to consider is that they may have made a serious effort to trade for a starter but found that the only way they could land what they wanted, a cost-controlled TOTR starter, was to give up Betts or Bogey.