Referendum on John Farrell

[SoxHop]

The Boston media, talk shows, and social media are the toughest on a manager than in any other MLB city. It will never change. It must have something to do with the Puritan or Pilgrim ethic of needing to punish oneself and feel guilty about enjoying oneself. These folks demanded cold, unheated churches and living with no joy.

 

He does have to get some credit. I thought at the starting gun he seemed wobbly, but all seems great now. Heck, this team right now is fire and forget though.

 

I do like him trying the hit and run with Vasquez up in certain situations......

[Bellhorn04]

The Boston media, talk shows, and social media are the toughest on a manager than in any other MLB city. It will never change. It must have something to do with the Puritan or Pilgrim ethic of needing to punish oneself and feel guilty about enjoying oneself. These folks demanded cold, unheated churches and living with no joy.

 

Yeah, there's not much doubt that being manager of the Red Sox is one of the toughest jobs in sports when it comes to scrutiny and abuse. You can win 2 World Series and pick up the nickname Coma along the way.

[illinoisredsox]

The Boston media, talk shows, and social media are the toughest on a manager than in any other MLB city. It will never change. It must have something to do with the Puritan or Pilgrim ethic of needing to punish oneself and feel guilty about enjoying oneself. These folks demanded cold, unheated churches and living with no joy.

 

This reminded me a something I read when I was in college nearly 40 years ago. It was an article about New England and if I remember correctly, was in the Chicago Tribune. It went something like this:

 

"One of the few things New Englanders have in common is the Red Sox, alledgedly a baseball team but actually a regional religious cult"

 

I always thought that a rather apt description.

[mvp 78]

Yeah, there's not much doubt that being manager of the Red Sox is one of the toughest jobs in sports when it comes to scrutiny and abuse. You can win 2 World Series and pick up the nickname Coma along the way.

 

If Farrell has success in the post season this year, I'll stop believing that his previous ring was due solely to the players and will give him the proper amount of credit going forward.

 

Tito is still better though.

[Dojji]

Oh lord yes. The celtics, Bruins and Pats come and go based on whether they're good that year or not, but Red Sox gear is something you always see around in summertime, even when the team completely and utterly sucks.

[devildavid]

I hear Farrell is going to move JBJ to leadoff for tonights game. Mookie is sitting. Anyone want to criticize Farrell for this potential move if he actually does it? Who believes this will endanger the hitting streak?

 

Personally, I just shrug it off, even if JBJ goes hitless tonight.

[Kimmi]

I hear Farrell is going to move JBJ to leadoff for tonights game. Mookie is sitting. Anyone want to criticize Farrell for this potential move if he actually does it? Who believes this will endanger the hitting streak?

 

Personally, I just shrug it off, even if JBJ goes hitless tonight.

 

I believe I read today that JBJ said that he is far too relaxed to be superstitious. JBJ seems like the type who would just shrug it off too.

 

I, OTOH, would not move JBJ to leadoff in the middle of this streak, because I am superstitious, though my rational side tells me that that is just silly. However, if JBJ goes hitless tonight, I will not blame Farrell.

[devildavid]

Media gadflies should be having a field day today with both JBJ's hitting streak ending and Clay's poor performance. I'm sure many in the Boston media will rip Farrell for these two things.

[mvp 78]

Media gadflies should be having a field day today with both JBJ's hitting streak ending and Clay's poor performance. I'm sure many in the Boston media will rip Farrell for these two things.

 

Yes, Farrell is at fault for moving JBJ up in the order, but at some point you have to make that call with a guy and see if he can succeed somewhere else in the lineup. There is no chance he was getting to 56 anyway.

 

Farrell is not at fault for Clay. That lies directly in the lap of the FO who decided to not use their brains and picked up Clay's option. What was Farrell supposed to do?

[Slasher9]

I hear Farrell is going to move JBJ to leadoff for tonights game. Mookie is sitting. Anyone want to criticize Farrell for this potential move if he actually does it? Who believes this will endanger the hitting streak?

 

Personally, I just shrug it off, even if JBJ goes hitless tonight.

 

forget Farrell. i blame you! thanks for the Jinx DD!!!!

[devildavid]

forget Farrell. i blame you! thanks for the Jinx DD!!!!

 

Yeah, I thought about that myself. I never should have brought up the subject!

[Dojji]

You murdered the hit streak!

 

[mvp 78]

Farrell is moving Clay to the pen. He also gave the starting job to Shaw and Castillo was sent to AAA.

 

His in game moves stink, but this roster construction is dope.

[cp176]

Oh lord yes. The celtics, Bruins and Pats come and go based on whether they're good that year or not, but Red Sox gear is something you always see around in summertime, even when the team completely and utterly sucks.

 

Dojji - come on - you have been giving me the impression that you were alive during the 60's. Boston Celtics!!! End - early 70's - all Bruins. We just love our winners.

[User Name]

Gotta give credit where credit is due: Farrell has a pair!

[a700hitter]

i have no significant issue with the way Farell has run things.

[CliffKlowers]

I also think that Farrell is doing a decent job but then I don't scrutinize every lineup change and decision that he makes unless an obvious mistake is apparent.

[devildavid]

I thought Farrell should have pulled Kelly sooner but I also understand he has to consider avoiding burning out the bullpen. The last two starts have really put him in a bind.

[southpaw777]

Ive never liked the way hes handled the pitching staff overall. The bullpen has had a bunch of head scratchers for moves since hes been here...for a guy who used to pitch I figured he would manage that a bit better....

He handles the players, media, and all that stuff great. Im just not in favor of his overall in game management. This includes Toronto as well. Heard a lot of the same stuff from them that a lot of Sox fans are saying.

I think hes great with the scouting and development. Won an award in Cleveland. To me, i think he would be better in a Fo position. Seriously, I thought Tito was a better all around fit as a Manager.

[Bellhorn04]

Ive never liked the way hes handled the pitching staff overall. The bullpen has had a bunch of head scratchers for moves since hes been here...for a guy who used to pitch I figured he would manage that a bit better....

He handles the players, media, and all that stuff great. Im just not in favor of his overall in game management. This includes Toronto as well. Heard a lot of the same stuff from them that a lot of Sox fans are saying.

I think hes great with the scouting and development. Won an award in Cleveland. To me, i think he would be better in a Fo position. Seriously, I thought Tito was a better all around fit as a Manager.

 

Tito took a pile of grief over his pitching moves too.

[Maxbialystock]

Ive never liked the way hes handled the pitching staff overall. The bullpen has had a bunch of head scratchers for moves since hes been here...for a guy who used to pitch I figured he would manage that a bit better....

He handles the players, media, and all that stuff great. Im just not in favor of his overall in game management. This includes Toronto as well. Heard a lot of the same stuff from them that a lot of Sox fans are saying.

I think hes great with the scouting and development. Won an award in Cleveland. To me, i think he would be better in a Fo position. Seriously, I thought Tito was a better all around fit as a Manager.

 

I think his handling of the bullpen and the pitching staff overall this year has been only slightly short of miraculous. We have an erratic rotation to say the least--and a closer who now and then loses it despite that humoungous fast ball.

 

Complaints about his overall game management are just the typical Sox fan who believes that good managers simply don't lose games, ever.

 

Let me hasten to add that what makes managing this team possible is that amazing lineup that continues to lead MLB and especially the AL in runs and OPS by a wide margin.

[User Name]

You're pretty good at both hyperbole and terrible assumptions.

[dannycater]

Lovullo proved his worth last year, I still think this guy is the epitome of class and loyalty. Makes him a better manager prospect now than when he was actually doing the job last year.

[Maxbialystock]

I can't find the page, but early on in this thread one of the raps against Farrell was his willingness to play Young in LF. You know, the guy whose OPS right now is over .900. But back then playing him, especially against righty pitchers, was considered proof that Farrell was clueless in Seattle. Who's clueless now?

[royf19]

I can't find the page, but early on in this thread one of the raps against Farrell was his willingness to play Young in LF. You know, the guy whose OPS right now is over .900. But back then playing him, especially against righty pitchers, was considered proof that Farrell was clueless in Seattle. Who's clueless now?

 

Agree with your thoughts on this thread. I love the Young example. All the Farrell bashers were tripping over themselves in ripping Farrell when Young played against a righty. But now look at his overall stats. And even though a .224 BA against righties isn't great, all four of his homers are against lefties, six of his 11 hits against righties are for extra bases and an .807 OPS against righties is very respectable. Critics loved to point out how he hit just. .182 against RHP in 2015. But while a manager should be aware of those numbers, he needs to be flexible too. In 2014, Young hit .243 against RHP and just .143 against LHP. Things do change from year to year.

 

As for pitching or being a good in-game manager. The Sox first manager I remember is Eddie Kasko. So let's go down the list (off the top of my head): Kasko, Johnson, Zimmer, Houk, McNamara, Morgan, Hobson, Kennedy, Williams, Little, Francona, Valentine, Farrell -- of them, who were good in-game managers according to fans?

[Maxbialystock]

royf19,

 

The answer is none of them were any good--according to Sox fans. A few claim they loved Francona, but that nickname Francoma came from fans.

 

Remind one and all: I don't believe that managers are uniformly good or that they are unfireable. Firing usually takes place when a team overall underperforms in the judgment of ownership or the FO, and that is just the way it is. Francona was actually pretty decent, but the Sox collapsed in 2011, plus there was the beer and chicken thing. Plus Francona wasn't fired--his contract simply wasn't renewed. Now he seems to be doing a good job in Cleveland.

[SoxnCycles]

Another thing you notice is that fans aren't ripping the manager and/or coaches for poor baserunning.

 

Evidently, good baserunning is on the players, bad baserunning is on the manager.

[mvp 78]

Yes, some fans liked Francona, some did not. Some fans like Farrell, some do not. Just because you like Francona, doesn't mean you'd automatically like Farrell. Some fans liked what Valentine brought to the table in Spring Training. To each their own.

 

The beer and chicken thing was a red herring. No one should care about that anymore and shouldn't have cared that much back then either.

[User Name]

royf19,

 

The answer is none of them were any good--according to Sox fans. A few claim they loved Francona, but that nickname Francoma came from fans.

 

Remind one and all: I don't believe that managers are uniformly good or that they are unfireable. Firing usually takes place when a team overall underperforms in the judgment of ownership or the FO, and that is just the way it is. Francona was actually pretty decent, but the Sox collapsed in 2011, plus there was the beer and chicken thing. Plus Francona wasn't fired--his contract simply wasn't renewed. Now he seems to be doing a good job in Cleveland.

 

Why do you keep talking like you know what other people are thinking? First off, the complaints about Farrell playing Young against righties are and were, valid. Now he's playing out of necessity and doing relatively well, but come on, dude was a OPS'ing low .600's in a limited sample size. I've been a staunch Farrell defender on this board since they hired him (and a700 can confirm this) he was my guy as soon as Vallentine was let go, but that doesn't shield him from my criticism when he does something I consider stupid.

 

Farrell barely received any criticism here anyway. We discussed his in-game moves because he started the season with some head-scratchers he clearly isn't commiting now, but here, in this baseball forum dedicated to the Boston Red Sox, we are allowed to discuss managerial moves, either negatively, or positively (you conveniently forget how many of the "bashers" whatever that idiocy means, have given props to his improved performance).

[User Name]

Another thing you notice is that fans aren't ripping the manager and/or coaches for poor baserunning.

 

Evidently, good baserunning is on the players, bad baserunning is on the manager.

 

I still think Farrell's teams run the bases like idiots. The personnel here is much better, so that covers for some mistakes, but some gaffes from Hanley/Shaw tell you that they need to be a little more conservative with some of the slower guys. In general, though, if there's a team constructed to run the bases like idiots with little to no negative consequences, it's this one.