2016 Starting Rotation

[jacksonianmarch]

Vasquez is a dominant defensive catcher who will probably be a s***** hitter long term at the big league level. But you have enough bats in your lineup to sustain a drop in production at C. You need better pitching and you certainly aren't bringing in anybody new right now. A good catcher can improve a staff. It wont turn s*** into gold, but it might prolong an outing by an inning or so and might drop the ER by a few over a period of time. A good catcher is like having a coach behind the plate. A bad catcher is like having an anchor behind the plate. Most pitchers want to be told what to do, have general agreement with the plan and execute. Very few guys want to call their own game pitch by pitch, and if you have the drag along a rookie, then it could drag the performance.

[Dojji]

I have no idea why you posted that rant. It sounds like you're trying to say Swihart is a bad catcher without having to defend your position by actually saying those words.

[sk7326]

Would moving Swihart to AAA help him defensively? Is it getting more clear that he's maybe not a long term solution at C? Trade? Move to another position?

 

In order

 

1. Perhaps. He was clearly rushed up due to a pile of injuries. While his makeup portend to him figuring this out, giving him more reps is a totally reasonable position. Indeed, you don't want the defense to muck up his ability to develop offensively, which is supposed to be his special sauce.

2. No. He was performing well in the minors - this is not like Kyle Schwarber or Jesus Montero where it really looked like people were lying to themselves. Clearly reps would help.

3. Nothing currently justifies this. He's young, his bat has not been amazing - his success is built on being a catcher. It was known that he was raw in areas but has picked up a lot. But AAA makes sense as the next move to me.

 

If Vasquez is ready to go, Swihart getting the demotion would make sense - some high profile non-performance clearly is helping nobody but sports talk ratings.

[mvp 78]

In order

 

1. Perhaps. He was clearly rushed up due to a pile of injuries. While his makeup portend to him figuring this out, giving him more reps is a totally reasonable position. Indeed, you don't want the defense to muck up his ability to develop offensively, which is supposed to be his special sauce.

2. No. He was performing well in the minors - this is not like Kyle Schwarber or Jesus Montero where it really looked like people were lying to themselves. Clearly reps would help.

3. Nothing currently justifies this. He's young, his bat has not been amazing - his success is built on being a catcher. It was known that he was raw in areas but has picked up a lot. But AAA makes sense as the next move to me.

 

If Vasquez is ready to go, Swihart getting the demotion would make sense - some high profile non-performance clearly is helping nobody but sports talk ratings.

 

I'm not certain that he'll work out as a C, but it's definitely worth the shot given his age. Moving him off position this early would indicate to other teams that he probably won't pan out. It takes a while for some catchers to mature (why the Mariners gave up on Varitek).

 

I just remember that 2-3 years ago, a lot of people (including Soxprospects) were saying that he may wind up at a different position (1b, 3b, corner OF). This isn't some new position that is being mentioned because of a dropped foul ball or two.

 

To me, the onus is on the pitching staff. I can't blame Swihart for their failings.

[mvp 78]

I have no idea why you posted that rant. It sounds like you're trying to say Swihart is a bad catcher without having to defend your position by actually saying those words.

 

If this was to me, I wasn't suggesting that. I was just asking the questions to see what other people thought a reasonable solution would be. I like Swihart. I wanted him on the opening day roster. Atm, he's just not a good defensive catcher.

[sk7326]

I'm not certain that he'll work out as a C, but it's definitely worth the shot given his age. Moving him off position this early would indicate to other teams that he probably won't pan out. It takes a while for some catchers to mature (why the Mariners gave up on Varitek).

 

I just remember that 2-3 years ago, a lot of people (including Soxprospects) were saying that he may wind up at a different position (1b, 3b, corner OF). This isn't some new position that is being mentioned because of a dropped foul ball or two.

 

To me, the onus is on the pitching staff. I can't blame Swihart for their failings.

 

Soxprospects did say that - and it made sense given he was acquired to convert to catcher. That said, these places (and baseball america, espn etc) all thought he could stay behind the plate. Had good stolen base numbers and is a good athlete. (most of the guys who have to leave the positions are not) It's more likely a young Mauer-like athlete can figure out the stuff at the plate than a DH in waiting. I think at this point giving him some time to be comfortable is all you can do - and if that means doing so in Pawtucket, fine.

 

Right now the pitching staff is giving up more line drives than anybody, is in the top 5 for fly balls, dead last in ground ball rate. The Sox also have the 3rd highest homerun/FB rate. So right now this has been target practice for opponents, and Jason Varitek coming from the heavens to call fastball after fastball ain't going to fix that.

[User Name]

How much can Vasquez really impact the ability to get extra strikes in the lower quadrant of the zone and overall pitcher execution? Only way to find out is through letting him play. Swihart needs some refinement regarding the fundamentals of donning the "tools of ignorance".

 

I think (note: opinion piece coming) that his setup behind the plate, pitch framing, and reaction time could all improve. I like his athleticism and overall reflexes, but this staff needs all the help it can get.

[wyo-sox]

I wonder if bringing in a manager with pitching experience would helps this staff....errr, wait.. never mind.

[Spudboy]

Actually UN?, I've been saying that. You've taken the cautiously optimistic approach

 

Doc with all due respect, anyone who can count should realize that trading away a #1 ( Lester ) and a #2 ( Lackey ) would result in the need for a #1 and a #2.

 

Which is what I have been saying since the trades were made.

 

To me, it almost seems as if there has been a saboteur in the Sox FO. Just dumb moves that have been followed up my more dumb moves or even no moves.

[mvp 78]

Last year, Hanigan's CERA was 4.56. Swihart's CERA was 4.51. Leon's was 3.50 (fewer appearances than Blake or Ryan).

[mvp 78]

I wonder if bringing in a manager with pitching experience would helps this staff....errr, wait.. never mind.

 

Last year, the team played much better under Lovullo for whatever reason.

[cp176]

Everything about this. Porcello is fine as a back of the rotation guy. There is nothing wrong with Price, just don't expect him to be 1999-2000 Pedro. Buchholz is a mixed bag and is not worth the risk anymore. Kelly just seems like a bullpen arm to me. I think Wright is ok in the rotation. I'm not thrilled about it, but whatever. I believe Owens started off the year in AAA pitching well, so maybe he gets called up first. Are they holding Johnson back a bit due to his injury history?

 

I do think that they are going the cautious route with Johnson. Plus the fact that he might not be the answer anyway. Reality with Swihart is that he might not be a better or even as good a hitter ultimately than any number of the young guys we have knocking on the door right now. I'm changing my vote - if Vazquez comes up, you send him back to Pawtucket (or you trade him while he has the potential tag shining brightly). Eventually he at worst becomes a solid backup to a very good catcher with a light bat. Within a year or two, they will have all the bats they need at first, third, and in the outfield. He is a great athlete but he is in a tough situation right now. Keep Hannigan.

[a700hitter]

Would moving Swihart to AAA help him defensively? Is it getting more clear that he's maybe not a long term solution at C? Trade? Move to another position?

Swihart would have a lot of trade value. He could be part of a package to bring back a pitcher, and imo, DD should not wait too long. If his defensive skills do not start improving, his trade value will go down. He doesn't carry a Johnny Bench-like bat. He has a good bat, but maybe not enough to overcome his defensive deficiencies. d'Arnaud of the Mets had very high trade value at one time, but not now as he has been exposed defensively. He can't throw out anyone. Bringing back a #2 type pitcher will cost us, and we have a glut at catcher.

[a700hitter]

Doc with all due respect, anyone who can count should realize that trading away a #1 ( Lester ) and a #2 ( Lackey ) would result in the need for a #1 and a #2.

 

Which is what I have been saying since the trades were made.

 

To me, it almost seems as if there has been a saboteur in the Sox FO. Just dumb moves that have been followed up my more dumb moves or even no moves.

Is Lincecum still out there?

[mvp 78]

Swihart would have a lot of trade value. He could be part of a package to bring back a pitcher, and imo, DD should not wait too long. If his defensive skills do not start improving, his trade value will go down. He doesn't carry a Johnny Bench-like bat. He has a good bat, but maybe not enough to overcome his defensive deficiencies. d'Arnaud of the Mets had very high trade value at one time, but not now as he has been exposed defensively. He can't throw out anyone. Bringing back a #2 type pitcher will cost us, and we have a glut at catcher.

 

You think Swihart is basically Jason Kendall?

[a700hitter]

You think Swihart is basically Jason Kendall?

I don't know what he is, but it is pretty clear that Vasquez has elite skills behind the plate. Swihart does not and no amount of work will get him there. We have plenty of other position players, so there is no burning need to keep his bat and change his position. I think that he will just be a backup if CV stays healthy, but right now he has a higher trade value than he will when he is a backup.

[User Name]

You think Swihart is basically Jason Kendall?

 

Funny you say that, since Kendall didn't wear batting gloves either. Twins!

[Bellhorn04]

Extending Clay was dumb. Maybe they thought it would increase his trade value? Idk. It made no sense to me though.

 

I understand the rationale. By today's standards $13 million on a 1 year commitment is very cheap.

 

I also understand why people have had enough with him.

[mvp 78]

Funny you say that, since Kendall didn't wear batting gloves either. Twins!

 

I don't remember Kendall having sick blackwork though.

[mvp 78]

I understand the rationale. By today's standards $13 million on a 1 year commitment is very cheap.

 

I also understand why people have had enough with him.

 

"Cheap." I think you could get similar results with Henry Owens.

 

There's clearly a reason DUMBrowski wanted to keep him around. If he fails, it's just a black eye for the new FO guys.

[Bellhorn04]

"Cheap." I think you could get similar results with Henry Owens.

 

I suspect we'll find out if you're right by the time this season is over.

[mvp 78]

I suspect we'll find out if you're right by the time this season is over.

 

I hope we don't have to wait that long. I agree though.

[Hitch]

I said it all throughout the offseason. They needed another decent arm to stop the bleeding besides Price. Buch ain't it.

 

This is has been true for a while now, but it's absolutely glaring at this point.

 

After Price, the rotation is very weak. I agree also, that Kelly needs to go to the pen. It would strengthen the pen quite a bit I believe.

 

I'm also a little concerned about how much hope and pressure is going to be placed on E-Rod's shoulders. He looks the real deal but it seems some people are desperate for him to come back up and be the No2 and I think he needs time to develop more at the back end of the rotation without the added pressure of what that brings right now.

 

It's annoying because this team is so close to being very good.

 

I really, really like Swilhart. But at this point he isn't great behind the plate. He still lets too many balls past, has been struggling mightily with pop-ups and his pitch framing isn't too clever either. He rarely seems to try and pinch a strike by bringing the ball back in a bit.

 

A stint in AAA might be what he needs. I do wonder if he could be packaged with Clay to bring back a No2. Although that might hurt a little too much.

[jacksonianmarch]

In a perfect world for you guys, ERod would be no higher than 3rd in your rotation. In my perfect world, you guys lose by 20 every night

[cp176]

I don't know what he is, but it is pretty clear that Vasquez has elite skills behind the plate. Swihart does not and no amount of work will get him there. We have plenty of other position players, so there is no burning need to keep his bat and change his position. I think that he will just be a backup if CV stays healthy, but right now he has a higher trade value than he will when he is a backup.

 

I agree with you here. A little bit of a conundrum though. If you decide to keep Swihart, there is a risk involved. If he does not show marked improvement behind the plate, his trade value really becomes next to nothing. Does he hit well enough to justify a change in position? right now I say no. With Vazquez, there is also risk involved. Can he hit well enough to just be adequate offensively? Although Swihart would make a great backup, I just don't see how that makes any sense at all going forward. i like Hannigan. You don't need an All-Star backup catcher. Just ask Bob Montgomery. I would love to see a package of Swihart and whatever else it takes to bring in one more dependable (emphasize dependable) arm. Team has needed, needs, and will need in the future starting pitching. Clogging up - backing up - call it what you like - this system is a menu for failure if you don't have the arms. Does anybody out there really think that if tomorrow we didn't have Bradley, Castillo, Shaw, Swihart, Young, Holt, Sandoval, or any number of others, this team wouldn't be able to replace them adequately. They aren't chopped lived but seriously we aren't talking guys who are apt to bull ass their way into the HOF.

[Northern Star]

In a perfect world for you guys, ERod would be no higher than 3rd in your rotation. In my perfect world, you guys lose by 20 every night

 

In my perfect world the New York teams are the Dodgers and Mets.

[SoxnCycles]

Where are all these teams that are going to trade a #2 starter in April?

 

We have what we have until June.

E-Rod better be as good as some think he is.

[mvp 78]

There aren't any. They should have gotten a guy when ERod got hurt.

[Behindenemylines]

The SP Will determine if the Sox can compete in the AL East. At the pace they are on now they will burn out the bullpen as they will be use much too much. 5 innings out of your starters isn't going to cut it.

[SoxHop]

Christian Vasquez to be called up. Could catch tomorrow for Porcello.

 

Farrell ok with having three catchers on the roster.