Dombrowski in Cherington Out

[Bellhorn04]

Of course, the Red Sox didn't even have to trade any prospects to have a TOTR starter or two going into 2015.

[Behindenemylines]

DD first move an easy one, releasing Masterson.

[SoxnCycles]

Of course, the Red Sox didn't even have to trade any prospects to have a TOTR starter or two going into 2015.

 

Yes, they should have resigned Lester, I get it...

[Yaz Fan Since 67]

This board usually has a "consensus" on negativity-driven opinions, no news there. The whole "2013 was a fluke" angle is nonsense. He made solid moves that worked out for that particular season and should get credit for it. The fact that they didn't work out afterwards is an entirely different set of circumstances.

 

OK we'll just disagree on the fluke thing. And you are right, many of the moves he made did play out well for that year. But looking back can you actually say you were happy with the Jake Peavy deal? Bogarts at 3rd and Iglesias at SS would be kind of nice right now and it's not like Peavey performed like Rick Sutcliff once he got here. Sure that move woked out to some extent in 2013 but it was a bad move ultimately.

 

And can you also agree that most of the key players on that team (Lester, Ortiz, Elsbury, Dustin etc) were already in place when Ben got here? And can we not agree that outside of one season his other 3 were complete disasters that will take years to dig out from? And again the salary dump netted us nothing in return other than financial flexibility. Don't get me wrong, it allowed him to acquire talent but IMO it was not the brilliant move many believe it was and costs us A Gonzo. None of the young talent acquired did anything and that was extremely disappointing.

 

Sorry just way more bad than good in the Ben regime IMO.

Edited August 20, 2015 by Yaz Fan Since '67

[SoxnCycles]

OK we'll just disagree on the fluke thing. And you are right, many of the moves he made did play out well for that year. But looking back can you actually say you were happy with the Jake Peavy deal? Bogarts at 3rd and Iglesias at SS would be kind of nice right now and it's not like Peavey performed like Rick Sutcliff once he got here. Sure that move woked out to some extent in 2013 but it was a bad move ultimately.

 

And can you also agree that most of the key players on that team (Lester, Ortiz, Elsbury, Dustin etc) were already in place when Ben got here? And can we not agree that outside of one season his other 3 were complete disasters that will take years to dig out from? And again the salary dump netted us nothing in return other than financial flexibility. Don't get me wrong, it allowed him to acquire talent but IMO it was not the brilliant move many believe it was and costs us A Gonzo. None of the young talent acquired did anything and that was extremely disappointing.

 

Sorry just way more bad than good in the Ben regime IMO.

 

I don't think anyone disagrees with that.

 

It's not giving him credit for ANYTHING, that I don't get.

[sk7326]

OK we'll just disagree on the fluke thing. And you are right, many of the moves he made did play out well for that year. But looking back can you actually say you were happy with the Jake Peavy deal? Bogarts at 3rd and Iglesias at SS would be kind of nice right now and it's not like Peavey performed like Rick Sutcliff once he got here. Sure that move woked out to some extent in 2013 but it was a bad move ultimately.

 

And can you also agree that most of the key players on that team (Lester, Ortiz, Elsbury, Dustin etc) were already in place when Ben got here? And can we not agree that outside of one season his other 3 were complete disasters that will take years to dig out from? And again the salary dump netted us nothing in return other than financial flexibility. Don't get me wrong, it allowed him to acquire talent but IMO it was not the brilliant move many believe it was and costs us A Gonzo. None of the young talent acquired did anything and that was extremely disappointing.

 

Sorry just way more bad than good in the Ben regime IMO.

 

Except that they weren't. Ben predated every single one of them - unless you think he was not part of the brain trust at all the previous 14 years. It's not like he rolled out of bed and joined the team in 2012. And the 2012 disaster was almost entirely health-related. He predated the ownership. His responsibility was player development before full GM - and that would sure seem to include Pedroia and Ellsbury and Lester and Yoook.

 

He made some mistakes. Iglesias for Peavy did not work out - but flags fly forever, and you take a stab when you can ... Peavy was good before the acquisition. The salary dump I don't give him a ton of credit for - that was an ownership level deal. Cherington actually got a couple of legit prospects out of a salary dump (which is not common). Neither worked out, but they were not without risk.

[sk7326]

Dombrowski took the worst non expansion team in history and turned them into perennial contenders in 3 years. From 06-14, they were either in the playoffs or on the cusp in every year. From worst AL team ever to 9 years of sustained great play is not a bad thing. With the purse open and the farm system talented, he'll make a lot of moves. You'll be better the next two seasons, but come 2018, you'll be a perennial playoff contender

 

Of course - the Detroit thing was in a much, much, much easier division ... but I am not going to s*** on him. His GM choice will be important.

[iortiz]

DD first move an easy one, releasing Masterson.

 

Hopefully He cleans all Ben's mess.

[iortiz]

Of course - the Detroit thing was in a much, much, much easier division ... but I am not going to s*** on him. His GM choice will be important.

 

This division is weak and we are dead last.

[Behindenemylines]

If you are going to blame Ben Cher for the three last place finishes you have to give him credit for the 2013 championship. That was his year when everything went right.

[mvp 78]

In Detroit, DUMBrowski let the owner bend him over and signed long contracts with Fielder, Verlander, Martinez, eyc. What will prevent him from signing future Pandas and Hanleys if the ownership is the same?

[Behindenemylines]

Verlander was his ace in Detroit much like Lester was the Sox ace in 2014. DD invested $$$$$$ in Verlander and the Sox let Lester walk. Unless you catch lightning in the bottle to get a true ace it generally cost you big time $$$$$ or big time prospects. Then there is the luck that is needed that the investment pays off.

[iortiz]

It's time to sum. I think that before calling him Dumb, we at least have to give him the benefit of the doubt. If he shits the bed, he will have to go as well, but again, let him work first and then judge him.

[mvp 78]

I'm judging him basd on his past performance and how he'd fit with this ownership. Same thing you did with Porcello this offseason.

[cp176]

It's time to sum. I think that before calling him Dumb, we at least have to give him the benefit of the doubt. If he shits the bed, he will have to go as well, but again, let him work first and then judge him.

 

I agree. We needed a change. We got a change. Give him a chance. It probably won't be too long before we know what direction he will be heading in. Regardless of what anybody thinks or even knows about him, he has won. The obvious counter to that is so did Ben. That's good - i'm happy. I wish him well!

[iortiz]

I'm judging him basd on his past performance and how he'd fit with this ownership. Same thing you did with Porcello this offseason.

 

His recent years have been very good. He won the division for how many years in a row? 5?.

 

I don't think we can compare him with Porcello. Porcello is a bum.

[mvp 78]

I was comparing the situation to how you viewed Porcello, not their output.

 

To me, DUMBrowski let ownership make several dumb moves in Detroit. What will prevent that here?

[iortiz]

I agree. We needed a change. We got a change. Give him a chance. It probably won't be too long before we know what direction he will be heading in. Regardless of what anybody thinks or even knows about him, he has won. The obvious counter to that is so did Ben. That's good - i'm happy. I wish him well!

 

He put in Detroit in recent years one of the best team in all baseball. He is a winner. At least let's give him a chance to work.

[a700hitter]

Fielder, verlander and VMart? Those are some pretty talented and accplishes players. They are all still pretty good despite being passed their primes. Porcello and Panda are not the same class of player.

[iortiz]

I was comparing the situation to how you viewed Porcello, not their output.

 

To me, DUMBrowski let ownership make several dumb moves in Detroit. What will prevent that here?

That's the thing, their past are clearly very different. Porcello was mediocre at best. DD is a winner.

[mvp 78]

That's the thing, their past are clearly very different. Porcello was mediocre at best. DD is a winner.

 

His last WS title was almost 20 years ago.

[Spudboy]

Porcello may be having a very bad year which is amplified by the Sox dumb extension.

 

But he is by no means a bum.

 

He is a decent back end of the rotation that is currently sucking big time.

 

As Kimmi might say, no one would have expected this type of poor performance from him given his history.

 

Dombrowski is an accomplished MLB GM that seems to be an odd fit in Boston. I have some of Kimmi's concerns but I am glad that the Sox have moved on and look forward to seeing what the guy does.

[iortiz]

His last WS title was almost 20 years ago.

 

If you are going to evaluate him based on that, I don't think you are making a good assessment MVP.

 

Don't get me wrong. All I'm saying is that let him work, at least the guy has a solid profile for the job.

Edited August 21, 2015 by iortiz

[iortiz]

Porcello may be having a very bad year which is amplified by the Sox dumb extension.

 

But he is by no means a bum.

 

He is a decent back end of the rotation that is currently sucking big time.

 

As Kimmi might say, no one would have expected this type of poor performance from him given his history.

 

Dombrowski is an accomplished MLB GM that seems to be an odd fit in Boston. I have some of Kimmi's concerns but I am glad that the Sox have moved on and look forward to seeing what the guy does.

Hopefully Porcello bounce back. I really really wish he proves me wrong.

 

Said that, I would prefer that DD trades him somehow (sounds like impossible mission, but you never know), his contract is not for a decent back end rotation guy.

[mvp 78]

I don't need to let him work. I already know he's going to give the checkbook to Werner and Henry. At least he has a decent history of trading players and getting a good return.

[mvp 78]

If he can move Castillo, Panda and Hanley, I'll take everything back I've said about him.

 

If he trades Mookie or Xander, he can go jump in a lake.

[Northern Star]

If he can move Castillo, Panda and Hanley, I'll take everything back I've said about him.

 

If he trades Mookie or Xander, he can go jump in a lake.

 

Unless trading Mookie or Xander gets us an even better player.

[Jasonbay44]

Unless trading Mookie or Xander gets us an even better player.

 

If he traded Mookie and/or Xander he better be getting a super star player or a bonafide ace.

[iortiz]

I think that good things will come. We can't go worse, right? We've been in last place for the last two years, so cheer up!

[iortiz]

If he traded Mookie and/or Xander he better be getting a super star player or a bonafide ace.

 

Like Sonny Gray?