Span Poll: Can 2015 be salvaged for the Boston Red Sox ?

[sk7326]

I'm not convinced the price was outrageous. I understand he signed at 33, but you're just not going to find quality pitching on the free agent market for a 3rd round draft pick and 75 million. The Red Sox spent 9 million for Masterson, 26 million for a 36 year old Dempster. Brandon Fricken McCarthy got 50 million. Brandon McCarthy!

 

I know some of these guys think 20 million is "ace money", but at this point, I would gladly see the Red Sox give a 20 million/year contract to a guy who can consistently put up quality starts, a 4.00 ERA, and 210 IP.

 

Lots of teams had job openings at P. Shields had to go to SD. Realistically he is a fly ball pitcher who has only pitched in places where fly balls go to die. He would have offered durability - which is not nothing.

[iortiz]

Lots of teams had job openings at P. Shields had to go to SD. Realistically he is a fly ball pitcher who has only pitched in places where fly balls go to die. He would have offered durability - which is not nothing.

 

He has pitched in all kind of environments. The sample is considerable. He has pitched in Tex, BAL, CHW, CLE, DET, HOU, LAD, MIN, NYM, etc. and he has pitched pretty good.

[SoxnCycles]

Lots of teams had job openings at P. Shields had to go to SD. Realistically he is a fly ball pitcher who has only pitched in places where fly balls go to die. He would have offered durability - which is not nothing.

 

Exactly.

 

Shields record at Fenway is 2-9: 5.42 ERA; 1.44 WHIP

At Yankee Stadium, (both) he's 4-9 5.07 ERA 1.33 WHIP.

 

Wouldn't that be fun to watch on a regular basis?

[Bellhorn04]

Exactly.

 

Shields record at Fenway is 2-9: 5.42 ERA; 1.44 WHIP

At Yankee Stadium, (both) he's 4-9 5.07 ERA 1.33 WHIP.

 

Wouldn't that be fun to watch on a regular basis?

 

Those are bad numbers. But looking at the history, he has gotten much better in these venues in the second half of his career or so.

 

In the new Yankee Stadium he has a 3.78 ERA and 1.10 WHIP in 66.2 innings. And at Fenway his numbers have been quite good since 2011, in a fairly small sample.

[SoxnCycles]

Those are bad numbers. But looking at the history, he has gotten much better in these venues in the second half of his career or so.

 

In the new Yankee Stadium he has a 3.78 ERA and 1.10 WHIP in 66.2 innings. And at Fenway his numbers have been quite good since 2011, in a fairly small sample.

 

And those offenses haven't been what they used to be either.

 

I still think he'd get killed, pitching in Fenway on a regular basis.

 

Besides, we both know pitchers don't improve, once they hit the ML.

[mvp 78]

I liked Shields before the season, but it's clear that, like Masterson (who I also liked) he's not worth the money. It's called logical asessment.

 

Flip flopper!!!

 

Logic doesn't matter here. Just need hot takes and the ability to make s*** up.

[iortiz]

Those are bad numbers. But looking at the history, he has gotten much better in these venues in the second half of his career or so.

 

In the new Yankee Stadium he has a 3.78 ERA and 1.10 WHIP in 66.2 innings. And at Fenway his numbers have been quite good since 2011, in a fairly small sample.

 

Offenses will never be the same, the steroids era is done.

 

Also he has proved that he has succeed in the AL, in different kind environments and facing all kind of offenses, specially in our division. As Pal said, his numbers are still oks and with an outstanding K/9. He and Lester definitely would have been nice additions, and this team would have had a different face this year.

[a700hitter]

Our pitching is great! What is all this hub bub? Softball leagues all over the country envy our pitching staff. We couldn't have a better staff. Ignore those numbers showing us at the bottom of the heap in ERA. It's a mirage.

[Spudboy]

I do want to talk about Miley though. Sometimes players take time to adjust, and that seems to be what happened with him. Look at these numbers:

 

April 8.62 ERA 1.79 WHIP

May 3.49 ERA 1.27 WHIP

June 3.42 ERA 1.31 WHIP

 

He is starting to look like exactly the pitcher the Red Sox wanted when they signed him. If he keeps this up, he could definitely still be a #3 for this team moving foward.

 

I agree. Miley is who the Sox thought they were getting. He should be able to be "mediocre enough" to be a 3 or 4 for this team.

[a700hitter]

I agree. Miley is who the Sox thought they were getting. He should be able to be "mediocre enough" to be a 3 or 4 for this team.

We loaded up on mediocre, but mediocre isn't good enough to be competitive.

[Spudboy]

We loaded up on mediocre, but mediocre isn't good enough to be competitive.

 

True.

 

My comment was about Miley as a stand alone move. He is good enough to fill a role with the Sox. His talent is not supreme and can not make up for overall poor pitching on any staff.

 

He is young and reasonably priced too.

[Bellhorn04]

Miley has worked his way off the problem list for now.

[Kimmi]

Our pitching is great! What is all this hub bub? Softball leagues all over the country envy our pitching staff. We couldn't have a better staff. Ignore those numbers showing us at the bottom of the heap in ERA. It's a mirage.

 

No one has said that our pitching is great. No need for such a mocking post.

[Kimmi]

We loaded up on mediocre, but mediocre isn't good enough to be competitive.

 

If our offense and defense were performing like projected, our mediocre pitching staff, along with the addition of Eduardo, would be good enough.

[Bellhorn04]

If our offense and defense were performing like projected, our mediocre pitching staff, along with the addition of Eduardo, would be good enough.

 

The pitching hasn't performed like projected either.

[iortiz]

If our offense and defense were performing like projected, our mediocre pitching staff, along with the addition of Eduardo, would be good enough.

 

It is not mediocre, it is one of the worst in all baseball.

[sk7326]

It is not mediocre, it is one of the worst in all baseball.

 

I linked to the story of a semi-famous team which was built on average starting pitching - to have a team where a strong area picks up a less strong one is not poor team building (in fact, that's what a team is) ... that just has not happened

[Spudboy]

I linked to the story of a semi-famous team which was built on average starting pitching - to have a team where a strong area picks up a less strong one is not poor team building (in fact, that's what a team is) ... that just has not happened

 

Hardly the preferred method of building a winning team even if it is not unprecedented.

 

The Sox had the means to build a much better team. Everyone gets it wrong now and then. The Sox have gotten too many things wrong in recent years.

 

With their resources that is pretty much inexcusable.

Edited June 25, 2015 by Spudboy

[sk7326]

Hardly the preferred method of building a winning team even if it is not unprecedented.

 

The Sox had the means to build a much better team. Everyone gets it wrong now and then. The Sox have gotten too many things wrong in recent years.

 

With their resources that is pretty much inexcusable.

 

If you got the lineup - a "good enough" staff can get you team of the decade ... alas the former has taken a while to take hold (if at all)

[gojohn99]

The splits:

 

April 12-10 .545

May 10-19 .345

June 10-13 .435

 

It's not looking good

[Spudboy]

There are always exceptions to everything.

 

But as I see it quality pitching is necessary to win and to go deep in the playoffs.

 

This team does not have quality pitching and the lineup was never going to carry this team far. So the Sox swung and missed on both for this season, at least.

[Bellhorn04]

If you got the lineup - a "good enough" staff can get you team of the decade ... alas the former has taken a while to take hold (if at all)

 

But we have the worst staff in the league.

[Spudboy]

But we have the worst staff in the league.

 

And a lineup that up until recently has been dead.

[Bellhorn04]

And a lineup that up until recently has been dead.

 

Yep. But the offense has been on the rise lately, moving toward middle of the pack at least. Pitching is still in the basement.

[sk7326]

But we have the worst staff in the league.

 

indeed - the slow start by the starters is one thing. The bullpen has not been great, although that is always a crapshoot. Really the last month the starters have largely been ok.

 

The biggest miscalculation actually has been defensive - since that was supposed to aid the run prevention effort and (because of the left side) instead has hurt it. The lineup on paper should have been challenging to lead the league in runs scored, but it hasn't.

 

I guess I resist the case of "well they built a team that couldn't pitch and presto" - because that sort of misplaces where the bulk of the blame (for May in particular) should go.

[iortiz]

If you got the lineup - a "good enough" staff can get you team of the decade ... alas the former has taken a while to take hold (if at all)

 

Thing is that it is not a good enough/mediocre rotation or whatever you want to call it since day 1. This is a collection of very bad pitchers. Some of us have rest our cases to support this since day 1. We were told that our analysis were death wromg. Time is giving us reason, unfortunately. If you thought that this was a good enough/mediocre pitching staff, that's up to you sk, but I did not drink that kool-aid at all, this is a horrible pitching staff since day 1. This is probably the worst pitching staff not only of the last 10 Y but of the history of this franchise.

[iortiz]

We can split the numbers all day long, by player, month, weeks, etc., thing is that all those bad performances (included Buch, ERod) already taxed us to the point that this pitching staff is one of the worst in baseball these days, and unfortunately as some us predicted, it seems to be already too late to save this s***** season.

[sk7326]

Thing is that it is not a good enough/mediocre rotation or whatever you want to call it since day 1. This is a collection of very bad pitchers. Some of us have rest our cases to support this since day 1. We were told that our analysis were death wromg. Time is giving us reason, unfortunately. If you thought that this was a good enough/mediocre pitching staff, that's up to you sk, but I did not drink that kool-aid at all, this is a horrible pitching staff since day 1. This is probably the worst pitching staff not only of the last 10 Y but of the history of this franchise.

 

2012 was worse, although the injuries caused much of that ... so far the staff has been as bad as anything I've seen since the Pedro deal ... of course that says more about the quality of the Red Sox staff since 1998 than anything. Right now the staff is 12th in fWAR in the AL which is not good enough (although interestingly the starters are 9th - in other words, perfectly mediocre). Porcello probably gets the largest slice of blame pie among the starters. If Porcello were the guy he was the last two seasons, the Top 3 of the rotation + Eduardo would actually be fairly solid. No 1994 Braves, but something you can go to war with.

 

Sox basically were trying to put together something staffwise resembling the 2002 Angels, 1975 Reds, 1977 Red Sox, what have you ... something competitive that with a good lineup could be better than that.

[wyo-sox]

OK, to the original question of this poll... No. Simply put no.

[iortiz]

2012 was worse, although the injuries caused much of that ... so far the staff has been as bad as anything I've seen since the Pedro deal ... of course that says more about the quality of the Red Sox staff since 1998 than anything. Right now the staff is 12th in fWAR in the AL which is not good enough (although interestingly the starters are 9th - in other words, perfectly mediocre). Porcello probably gets the largest slice of blame pie among the starters. If Porcello were the guy he was the last two seasons, the Top 3 of the rotation + Eduardo would actually be fairly solid. No 1994 Braves, but something you can go to war with.

 

Sox basically were trying to put together something staffwise resembling the 2002 Angels, 1975 Reds, 1977 Red Sox, what have you ... something competitive that with a good lineup could be better than that.

Well, I said that Porcello was a mistake since day one as well. They not only traded him but threw him 80 M without a single pitch in red sox uniforme man, 80 f***ing M for this garbage. I'm done with their incompetence, the culture of losing has to end already.

 

For this reason and a lot of other bad decisions that have taxed us in the last 3/4 years, this FO has go. Let them take their bad luck and enigmas somewhere else.

Edited June 25, 2015 by iortiz