Span Poll: Can 2015 be salvaged for the Boston Red Sox ?

[Bellhorn04]

So you want to use hindsight to say you would have traded at least one prospect who looks like an above-average regular contributor right now for a starter that would not put the team over .500 at this point in time? I usually agree with you, but that is terrible, terrible logic.

 

There were other options beside trading for Hamels. We could have not traded Lackey, or signed Shields, or done both, without a huge financial outlay.

 

I agree that it's hindsight stuff. But I think most of us were at least a little shocked that they went into 2015 with the rotation they did.

[Spudboy]

And let's hope that the Sox don't pull a panic move and trade one of the prized young players just to get an arm that will appease the masses.

 

As bad as things are now, losing a player like Betts or Swilhart would create more problems down the road. Not to mention that these players provide production now.

[User Name]

There were other options beside trading for Hamels. We could have not traded Lackey, or signed Shields, or done both, without a huge financial outlay.

 

I agree that it's hindsight stuff. But I think most of us were at least a little shocked that they went into 2015 with the rotation they did.

 

Keeping Lackey is a good point. Shields has looked terrible in SD, and Hamels was too expensive.

[iortiz]

There were other options beside trading for Hamels. We could have not traded Lackey, or signed Shields, or done both, without a huge financial outlay.

 

I agree that it's hindsight stuff. But I think most of us were at least a little shocked that they went into 2015 with the rotation they did.

 

... and do not forget how they shitted the bed with Lester.

[iortiz]

If Shields looks terrible in SDP (3.7 ERA/10.4 K/9/3.1 SIERA) how our pitching staff looks like? I just can not find an adjective.

 

Lester and Shields would have kept us in the hunt, there's no reason to go in circles.

[sk7326]

If Shields looks terrible in SDP (3.7 ERA/10.4 K/9/3.1 SIERA) how our pitching staff looks like? I just can not find an adjective.

 

Lester and Shields would have kept us in the hunt, there's no reason to go in circles.

 

Buchholz has pitched better than Shields so far. Shields has done what he has always done, been durable in a very favorable pitching environment.

[Bellhorn04]

With perfect hindsight, plug Lackey in for Kelly and Shields in for Masterson, we keep all our prospects and add very little to this year's payroll.

[iortiz]

Buchholz has pitched better than Shields so far. Shields has done what he has always done, been durable in a very favorable pitching environment.

The pitching enviroment would not be a problem. He is striking out more bats this year.

 

Also, a rotation with Lester, Shields, Lackey, Buch and whoever else, was pretty affordable, and was the kind of rotation I wanted.

[User Name]

With perfect hindsight, plug Lackey in for Kelly and Shields in for Masterson, we keep all our prospects and add very little to this year's payroll.

 

Yet you probably still have a sub .500 team, specially with Shields' HR proneness this year.

[Palodios]

So you want to use hindsight to say you would have traded at least one prospect who looks like an above-average regular contributor right now for a starter that would not put the team over .500 at this point in time? I usually agree with you, but that is terrible, terrible logic.

 

Personally, I wanted one more good starter, and one less third baseman/bad starter. Avoid Masterson's 85 MPH fastball and 9 million contract, avoid Pablo's fat ass, sign Shields at 80 mill. I don't like long term contracts to older starters, but Shields was probably worth it.

 

The Juan Francisco/WMB platoon might have hit 35 bombs this year.

 

That's not hindsight, that's what I was suggesting at the time. Juan Francisco hasn't played a game in the majors in 2015

[User Name]

Personally, I wanted one more good starter, and one less third baseman/bad starter. Avoid Masterson's 85 MPH fastball and 9 million contract, avoid Pablo's fat ass, sign Shields at 80 mill. I don't like long term contracts to older starters, but Shields was probably worth it.

 

The Juan Francisco/WMB platoon might have hit 35 bombs this year.

 

That's not hindsight, that's what I was suggesting at the time. Juan Francisco hasn't played a game in the majors in 2015

 

Shields at 80 million, with his current 96 ERA+, pitching at Petco, still looks like a good idea to you? I'll give you less Panda, but the Shields signing looks worse by the second, even with the IP still being there.

[iortiz]

Personally, I wanted one more good starter, and one less third baseman/bad starter. Avoid Masterson's 85 MPH fastball and 9 million contract, avoid Pablo's fat ass, sign Shields at 80 mill. I don't like long term contracts to older starters, but Shields was probably worth it.

 

The Juan Francisco/WMB platoon might have hit 35 bombs this year.

 

That's not hindsight, that's what I was suggesting at the time. Juan Francisco hasn't played a game in the majors in 2015

 

Yup, Shields or Lester or keeping Lackey would have been a better approach.

 

As I said in offseason I would have used Panda's, Porcello's and even HR's money if that meant keeping Lackey and singing Lester and Shields.

[iortiz]

With perfect hindsight, plug Lackey in for Kelly and Shields in for Masterson, we keep all our prospects and add very little to this year's payroll.

 

It's funny, U? was all in for Shields and he/she was even willing to give him 100 M and now Shields is a terrible pitcher. A sea of inconstancies, as always.

[Spudboy]

It's funny, U? was all in for Shields and he/she was even willing to give him 100 M and now Shields is a terrible pitcher. A sea of inconstancies, as always.

 

More like he has looked at Shields numbers at Petco and rethought the situation.

 

I was on the fence about Shields at the time. Now I think that Shields would not have been a mitigating factor in the Sox disaster of a season.

 

I said this last season when the Sox traded away 80% of the starting rotation that the Sox would need two TOTR arms and they still do.

 

To me, that is the biggest failing of this org in several years.

[User Name]

I liked Shields before the season, but it's clear that, like Masterson (who I also liked) he's not worth the money. It's called logical asessment. You should try it sometime iortiz.

[a700hitter]

If we continue to ride with this pitching, we will stay in last place even though our hitting during June has been productive. We are getting a lot more hits and baserunners recently. It's the pitching. There is no talent there. The hitting did slump early, but the hitting is talented, and talent will always come out. Our pitching is a mediocre collection. There is no talent there beyond the kid ER and the good Buchholz -- and he can disappear at any time. Edited June 24, 2015 by a700hitter

[Palodios]

Shields at 80 million, with his current 96 ERA+, pitching at Petco, still looks like a good idea to you? I'll give you less Panda, but the Shields signing looks worse by the second, even with the IP still being there.

 

Shields ERA/WHIP/ BAA/ IP per game are all around career averages. His strikeouts are near career highs. If the homers normalize, he can still have an excellent season.

 

I'd take a 96 ERA+ over Joe Kelly's 70 ERA+ or Masterson's 63 ERA+ any day of the week.

[Palodios]

I do want to talk about Miley though. Sometimes players take time to adjust, and that seems to be what happened with him. Look at these numbers:

 

April 8.62 ERA 1.79 WHIP

May 3.49 ERA 1.27 WHIP

June 3.42 ERA 1.31 WHIP

 

He is starting to look like exactly the pitcher the Red Sox wanted when they signed him. If he keeps this up, he could definitely still be a #3 for this team moving foward.

[a700hitter]

It's funny, U? was all in for Shields and he/she was even willing to give him 100 M and now Shields is a terrible pitcher. A sea of inconstancies, as always.

israel, this is the best that we could have expected in 2015. Ben did the best job humanly possible. There were no better options available to him. The other GMs were just lucky putting together better team. They couldn't have done any better than Ben.

[cp176]

israel, this is the best that we could have expected in 2015. Ben did the best job humanly possible. There were no better options available to him. The other GMs were just lucky putting together better team. They couldn't have done any better than Ben.

 

It is pretty obvious that a trade for Hamels would have helped this team now and for the future as well. It would have cost us a lot less before the season began. We need an established top of the rotation guy if available to lead the way for the future. I think that we would have to pay a very high ransom for a pitcher of his quality right now. I hope I am wrong but I don't see that big addition coming that we all hoped for. The players that have produced are the ones we don't want to lose.

[sk7326]

I do want to talk about Miley though. Sometimes players take time to adjust, and that seems to be what happened with him. Look at these numbers:

 

April 8.62 ERA 1.79 WHIP

May 3.49 ERA 1.27 WHIP

June 3.42 ERA 1.31 WHIP

 

He is starting to look like exactly the pitcher the Red Sox wanted when they signed him. If he keeps this up, he could definitely still be a #3 for this team moving foward.

 

Miley has been a case of a couple of horrific starts making hash of a bunch of solid ones. I'm actually not that bummed out by him. Management needs to bang the gong on Kelly and look into Johnson.

[User Name]

Shields ERA/WHIP/ BAA/ IP per game are all around career averages. His strikeouts are near career highs. If the homers normalize, he can still have an excellent season.

 

I'd take a 96 ERA+ over Joe Kelly's 70 ERA+ or Masterson's 63 ERA+ any day of the week.

 

You're completely ignoring the fact that those are numbers he's posting after moving to pitcher heaven. Some context is in order.

 

Obviously anyone would take him over Kelly, but not at that price and costing a draft pick. You're fighting a losing battle to convince me here.

[User Name]

israel, this is the best that we could have expected in 2015. Ben did the best job humanly possible. There were no better options available to him. The other GMs were just lucky putting together better team. They couldn't have done any better than Ben.

 

And you wonder why we think you're a jackass.

[User Name]

Miley has been a case of a couple of horrific starts making hash of a bunch of solid ones. I'm actually not that bummed out by him. Management needs to bang the gong on Kelly and look into Johnson.

 

Still very much like Miley, yes. He has good stuff and a bulldog mentality. His problem is that he's a "pace" guy, and if they can get him out of whack early in a start, he will usually melt down.

[iortiz]

israel, this is the best that we could have expected in 2015. Ben did the best job humanly possible. There were no better options available to him. The other GMs were just lucky putting together better team. They couldn't have done any better than Ben.

 

Yeah we are just unlucky, in fact it is still an enigma. LOL!

[iortiz]

Shields ERA/WHIP/ BAA/ IP per game are all around career averages. His strikeouts are near career highs. If the homers normalize, he can still have an excellent season.

 

I'd take a 96 ERA+ over Joe Kelly's 70 ERA+ or Masterson's 63 ERA+ any day of the week.

 

 

But...But#%^* ... He is a terrible pitcher.

[Palodios]

You're completely ignoring the fact that those are numbers he's posting after moving to pitcher heaven. Some context is in order.

 

Obviously anyone would take him over Kelly, but not at that price and costing a draft pick. You're fighting a losing battle to convince me here.

 

I'm not convinced the price was outrageous. I understand he signed at 33, but you're just not going to find quality pitching on the free agent market for a 3rd round draft pick and 75 million. The Red Sox spent 9 million for Masterson, 26 million for a 36 year old Dempster. Brandon Fricken McCarthy got 50 million. Brandon McCarthy!

 

I know some of these guys think 20 million is "ace money", but at this point, I would gladly see the Red Sox give a 20 million/year contract to a guy who can consistently put up quality starts, a 4.00 ERA, and 210 IP.

[User Name]

I'm not convinced the price was outrageous. I understand he signed at 33, but you're just not going to find quality pitching on the free agent market for a 3rd round draft pick and 75 million. The Red Sox spent 9 million for Masterson, 26 million for a 36 year old Dempster. Brandon Fricken McCarthy got 50 million. Brandon McCarthy!

 

I know some of these guys think 20 million is "ace money", but at this point, I would gladly see the Red Sox give a 20 million/year contract to a guy who can consistently put up quality starts, a 4.00 ERA, and 210 IP.

 

They had that guy at league minum, his name is John Lackey. A better argument would be that they should have kept Lackey.

[Palodios]

They had that guy at league minum, his name is John Lackey. A better argument would be that they should have kept Lackey.

 

That was probably the worst trade I've seen this ownership make. It still doesn't make sense to me.

[iortiz]

I'm not convinced the price was outrageous. I understand he signed at 33, but you're just not going to find quality pitching on the free agent market for a 3rd round draft pick and 75 million. The Red Sox spent 9 million for Masterson, 26 million for a 36 year old Dempster. Brandon Fricken McCarthy got 50 million. Brandon McCarthy!

 

I know some of these guys think 20 million is "ace money", but at this point, I would gladly see the Red Sox give a 20 million/year contract to a guy who can consistently put up quality starts, a 4.00 ERA, and 210 IP.

it is not. At the time everybody thought that he was going to sign for something around 100-110. 80 M is a bargain for a guy who has proved to be a No 1 in the AL.