Span Poll: Can 2015 be salvaged for the Boston Red Sox ?

[sk7326]

The strategy was horrible since day one. They built a horrible pitching staff. A lot of question marks on the field as well. Now seems to be too late.

 

Except that (on paper - duh) was not really true. A rotation with Joe Kelly (a swing guy granted, but a live arm) and a few mid-rotation types backed by a pretty good bullpen does not terrible make. And frankly the run prevention has not really been a serious issue since May basically.

[iortiz]

Except that (on paper - duh) was not really true. A rotation with Joe Kelly (a swing guy granted, but a live arm) and a few mid-rotation types backed by a pretty good bullpen does not terrible make. And frankly the run prevention has not really been a serious issue since May basically.

 

Since day one we had a bunch of No. 4s and 5s lead by Rick f***ing Porcello and Buch. IDK you, but I did not like that by any means. Some said that this staff could be "good enough=mediocre" since the good offense blah blah. Again, I understand what they wanted/tried to to do here, but that does not mean that I liked that strategy. At the time we had a very unbalanced team, and we had a very little margin of error if the offense/run prevention/BP shitted the bed... which kind of been happening.

 

Also while the offense were on paper very good, there were some question marks on some players as well. There were some concerns in Sandoval, HR and XB specially at defense. Some questioned if Vic, Pedroia and others could be healthy all season long as well. Some question marks were around Papi and Napoli as well. Craig and Castillo were an mystery. etc.

 

As I said, on paper I did not like the strategy at all since day 1. All those questions have answers these days; unfortunately just a few are good answers.

 

We can split the numbers all day long, the true is that each department already taxed us in one way or another making us one of the worst teams in baseball.

[Palodios]

Since day one we had a bunch of No. 4s and 5s lead by Rick f***ing Porcello and Buch.

 

Since May 1st, Buchholz has had a 3.00 ERA, 1.20 WHIP, and has pitched 7 IP per game. Crazy, huh?

[mvp 78]

If they signed Hamels and Shields, they still would be at the bottom of the division.

[a700hitter]

If they signed Hamels and Shields, they still would be at the bottom of the division.

This is an opinion with no basis in fact.

[Bellhorn04]

If they signed Hamels and Shields, they still would be at the bottom of the division.

 

Ah yes, the 'we would have sucked anyway' defense.

[Palodios]

If the Red Sox had signed an ace, it would have taken pressure off the rest of the guys. One or two more wins early, one or two fewer appearances per bullpen arm, fifteen fewer appearances by either Kelly/Masterson would make a difference. The rotation wouldn't have had to deal with the "Why don't you have an ace" criticism all year.

[a700hitter]

Ah yes, the 'we would have sucked anyway' defense.

Yes, it was bound to rear it's head sooner or later. It goes hand in hand with the "you can't win the World Series every year" defense.

[User Name]

Ah yes, the 'we would have sucked anyway' defense.

 

What's the problem with it in this case? In their horrible May, it was the defense and offense that did them in, not the pitching. It's fact.

[User Name]

Except that (on paper - duh) was not really true. A rotation with Joe Kelly (a swing guy granted, but a live arm) and a few mid-rotation types backed by a pretty good bullpen does not terrible make. And frankly the run prevention has not really been a serious issue since May basically.

 

This is a logical stance, therefore it will be rebuked by iortiz.

[iortiz]

Since May 1st, Buchholz has had a 3.00 ERA, 1.20 WHIP, and has pitched 7 IP per game. Crazy, huh?

 

While I did/do not like the rotation at all, I only had little faith on He and Kelly when the season began.

[Bellhorn04]

What's the problem with it in this case? In their horrible May, it was the defense and offense that did them in, not the pitching. It's fact.

 

Sure, but that's one month. We're not completely dead as it is. If we had Hamels or Shields or whoever, from Day One, we'd be a few games better right now, with better odds of making the playoffs.

[SoxnCycles]

If the Red Sox had signed an ace, it would have taken pressure off the rest of the guys. One or two more wins early, one or two fewer appearances per bullpen arm, fifteen fewer appearances by either Kelly/Masterson would make a difference. The rotation wouldn't have had to deal with the "Why don't you have an ace" criticism all year.

 

I guess it depends on what "ace" we're talking about and who the Sox would have to give to get them.

 

On one hand, Hamels probably wouldn't saved this team on his own, but the Sox would have him in the rotation going forward.

 

if the Sox were to give up one or two players that are now on the ML roster to get a TOR pitcher, there's every chance that the Sox would be in even worse shape.

Betts and Bogaerts are two of the few bright spots of this dismal season.

 

Frankly, I don't think Hamels or Shields are elite enough to have taken any pressure of the the rest of the staff.

Scherzer, maybe...

[sk7326]

An obscure baseball team which was built on a bunch of meh performing starters: http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CIN/1976.shtml

[mvp 78]

Sure, but that's one month. We're not completely dead as it is. If we had Hamels or Shields or whoever, from Day One, we'd be a few games better right now, with better odds of making the playoffs.

 

With 4 more wins, they'd still be below .500 and Shield and Hamels have been disappointing so far.

[iortiz]

Sure, but that's one month. We're not completely dead as it is. If we had Hamels or Shields or whoever, from Day One, we'd be a few games better right now, with better odds of making the playoffs.

Yup, now seems to be too late as some of us predicted.

 

We can split the numbers all day long. Thing is that this pitching staff is one of the worst in all baseball and it already taxed us. We are just ahead PHI an COL in that department, and it is the fact that really matters.

[iortiz]

With 4 more wins, they'd still be below .500 and Shield and Hamels have been disappointing so far.

 

It doesn't work like that. The pitching staff have taxed other departments as well. Saying a number is pure speculation/conjecture. Thing is that a better pitching staff would have made this team more competitive and likely in the hunt. That is kind of the point.

[User Name]

With 4 more wins, they'd still be below .500 and Shield and Hamels have been disappointing so far.

 

Shields, the other iortiz/a700 binky, has an ERA+ of 96 and is giving up bombs at an unprecedented rate in Petco park, of all places.

[Bellhorn04]

With 4 more wins, they'd still be below .500 and Shield and Hamels have been disappointing so far.

 

Hamels has been pretty good. 14 starts, 94.1 IP, 2.96 ERA, 10 Quality Starts.

 

Joe Kelly: 14 starts, 74.2.1 IP, 5.67 ERA, 4 Quality Starts.

[User Name]

Hamels has been pretty good. 14 starts, 94.1 IP, 2.96 ERA, 10 Quality Starts.

 

Joe Kelly: 14 starts, 74.2.1 IP, 5.67 ERA, 4 Quality Starts.

 

Still not enough of a difference maker at that price, and who knows how he'd be faring at Fenway.

[Bellhorn04]

To me there's a point that's hard to dispute. If we had one TOTR starter replacing one of our batting practice starters, we'd be at least 3 games better in the standings. 3 games would put us 4.5 games out of the Wild Card with 90 games left, and with our offense starting to produce. It would be a significant swing in our position.

[iortiz]

James Shields has been pretty decent thus far, he has posted a 3.72 ERA, 3.1 xFIP/SIERA, and while his BB/9 has raised a bit it is still good. The thing that is remarkable is his K/9. The best of his career, it is at 10.47.

[iortiz]

It's funny, Porcello is a good pitcher and Hamels and Shields are bad. LOL!

[mvp 78]

Still not enough of a difference maker at that price, and who knows how he'd be faring at Fenway.

 

And we would have traded two of Betts, Swihart, Johnson and Rodriguez. No thanks.

[mvp 78]

So mortgage your future so that you can build a team still below .500. Great idea! Let's be Phillies 2.0.

[iortiz]

To me there's a point that's hard to dispute. If we had one TOTR starter replacing one of our batting practice starters, we'd be at least 3 games better in the standings. 3 games would put us 4.5 games out of the Wild Card with 90 games left, and with our offense starting to produce. It would be a significant swing in our position.

 

Both additions would have been way better than this crap, and it is not even debatable.

[User Name]

To me there's a point that's hard to dispute. If we had one TOTR starter replacing one of our batting practice starters, we'd be at least 3 games better in the standings. 3 games would put us 4.5 games out of the Wild Card with 90 games left, and with our offense starting to produce. It would be a significant swing in our position.

 

So you want to use hindsight to say you would have traded at least one prospect who looks like an above-average regular contributor right now for a starter that would not put the team over .500 at this point in time? I usually agree with you, but that is terrible, terrible logic.

[iortiz]

And we would have traded two of Betts, Swihart, Johnson and Rodriguez. No thanks.

 

There was not need to trade anyone. Lester and Shields were available. They should have signed both.

[SoxnCycles]

To me there's a point that's hard to dispute. If we had one TOTR starter replacing one of our batting practice starters, we'd be at least 3 games better in the standings. 3 games would put us 4.5 games out of the Wild Card with 90 games left, and with our offense starting to produce. It would be a significant swing in our position.

 

Sure, unless the price of said pitcher includes one or more of the kids that's helping to spark the offense.

[User Name]

Sure, unless the price of said pitcher includes one or more of the kids that's helping to spark the offense.

 

There's no way they would've given up Hamels without one of Betts or Swihart, and that's too steep a price.