2014 Offseason Thread

[Ogden]

Welcome aboard, Ogden. I like your avatar. Freddie was one of my favorites. There were not many guys who made baseball look easier than he did when he was in top form.

 

 

Thanks Bellhorn. Freddy was as smooth as they come - his swing, running style, and throwing.

[iortiz]

Just be glad the Sox GM isn't Cashman who will add an extra year or two to the bidding just for the heck of it.

I'm not against to all high/long contracts. I think each potential contract is a particular case.

 

BTW welcome to talksox Ogden.

[BSN07]

Chad Billingsley to Philly for 1.5 million. Man, that one feels like a miss -- he seemed like excellent depth.

 

I liked him as a depth signing too but let's be fair, during his good years he was a 3.7ish avg era guy in pitching friendly NL West. So there wasn't a ton of upside past an innings eater. I'd like to see them get Ogando but I'm guessing his elbow doesn't look good or some team would have grabbed him by now given his track record and versatility.

[cp176]

Thanks Bellhorn. Freddy was as smooth as they come - his swing, running style, and throwing.

 

I still feel that if Freddie had stayed in Boston, his chances of being in the Hall today would have been very good.

[Bellhorn04]

I still feel that if Freddie had stayed in Boston, his chances of being in the Hall today would have been very good.

 

Injuries were a factor too of course.

[cp176]

Injuries were a factor too of course.

I was going to add that for sure. He was beautiful to watch both at the plate and in the field. Remember that game in Detroit - early season 75?

[Bellhorn04]

I was going to add that for sure. He was beautiful to watch both at the plate and in the field. Remember that game in Detroit - early season 75?

 

Yes. I have a lot of vivid memories of the late 70's teams.

[Spudboy]

Thanks Bellhorn. Freddy was as smooth as they come - his swing, running style, and throwing.

 

Fred Lynn was a great athlete who's time in Boston was far too short. It's cool to see him in the stands watching games.

 

And of course, welcome to the rogue state of Red Sox Nation Ogden.

[a700hitter]

Thanks Bellhorn. Freddy was as smooth as they come - his swing, running style, and throwing.

I always heard my Dad's generation talk about the graceful style of Joe D., but I can't imagine a more graceful player than Freddie Lynn. He made the spectacular look routine. It broke my heart when he and Fisk left. Edited January 30, 2015 by a700hitter

[mvp 78]

Fred Lynn is also one of the nicest people you'll ever meet. Solid guy.

[cp176]

Fred Lynn is also one of the nicest people you'll ever meet. Solid guy.

 

Good to know - absolutely loved watching him play -

[Spudboy]

Fred Lynn is also one of the nicest people you'll ever meet. Solid guy.

 

Yup. I have never met him but he does seem to be a really nice man. And he has that Leave It To Beaver look. Like a young boy. That helps the perception that he is someone nice.

[GomesBeard]

Fred Lynn is also one of the nicest people you'll ever meet. Solid guy.

 

I've seen both him and El Tiante outside Fenway interacting with fans - Luis more than Fred, but both are very approachable and good guys.

[Spudboy]

I've seen both him and El Tiante outside Fenway interacting with fans - Luis more than Fred, but both are very approachable and good guys.

 

Louis does have the sandwich concession on Yawkey way. This is probably why you have seen him there.

 

I have had the pleasure of talking to Tiante several times. We both eat at the same Mexican restaurant and we have crossed paths there over the past 25 years.

 

He is a remarkably friendly person.

[seabeachfred]

I was going to add that for sure. He was beautiful to watch both at the plate and in the field. Remember that game in Detroit - early season 75?

 

Fred was a great talent, no question about it, but his departure from Boston impacted his career and he was never the same player again. He was also very injury and, unfortunately, a very slow healer. Lynn lived just two miles from me, went to El Monte High School and competed in the same Pacific League as my Arcadia did. He was the PL's Player in the League in 1970 and was a standout pitcher as well. He lost to Arcadia 1-0 the last league game giving Mark Keppel the title and El Monte second place. Permit me to boast just a trifle. That spring I was the Frosh-Soph baseball coach at Arcadia and we went 21-1, finishing right on top. It was first year coaching in my community.

 

And I got married that summer too.

Edited January 30, 2015 by seabeachfred

[seabeachfred]

Fred Lynn was a great athlete who's time in Boston was far too short. It's cool to see him in the stands watching games.

 

And of course, welcome to the rogue state of Red Sox Nation Ogden.

 

And Spud, enough with this boot licker talk. You're not that at all. You're an optimist and right now I think we all should be thinking positive about the coming season.

[cp176]

Fred was a great talent, no question about it, but his departure from Boston impacted his career and he was never the same player again. He was also very injury and, unfortunately, a very slow healer. Lynn lived just two miles from me, went to El Monte High School and competed in the same Pacific League as my Arcadia did. He was the PL's Player in the League in 1970 and was a standout pitcher as well. He lost to Arcadia 1-0 the last league game giving Mark Keppel the title and El Monte second place. Permit me to boast just a trifle. That spring I was the Frosh-Soph baseball coach at Arcadia and we went 21-1, finishing right on top. It was first year coaching in my community.

 

And I got married that summer too.

 

 

Good for you. You deserve to boast a bit. Your experience gives you great insight into the game.

[Ogden]

I'm not against to all high/long contracts. I think each potential contract is a particular case.

 

BTW welcome to talksox Ogden.

 

 

Personally I have an aversion to contracts longer than 5 years or 4 years for a pitcher. Different strokes for different folks, I guess. And thank you kind sir. http://www.new-jersey-leisure-guide.com/image-files/thumbs-up.jpg

Edited January 31, 2015 by Ogden

[iortiz]

Personally I have an aversion to contracts longer than 5 years or 4 years for a pitcher. Different strokes for different folks, I guess. And thank you kind sir. http://www.new-jersey-leisure-guide.com/image-files/thumbs-up.jpg

Welcome Ogden.

 

I do not expect that all the contracts work out 100 % but If 70% of the contract works out I will call it deal.

Edited January 31, 2015 by iortiz

[Spitball]

Optimism:

 

http://www.ispot.tv/ad/7I5l/values-com-baseball-optimism-song-by-kool-and-the-gang

[RedSoxNC84]

So Alexi Ogando.. I'm guessing he'll get a crack at the rotation in ST, will probably end up in the bullpen or the DL though. Solid low cost high upside signing though.

[Kimmi]

Personally I have an aversion to contracts longer than 5 years or 4 years for a pitcher. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

 

 

I am not a fan of long contracts either. I know that sometimes they are a necessary evil, and in rare cases, a player warrants breaking the bank for, but that would be the exception. I really like what Ben did in the offseason prior to 2013, with his shorter contracts at a higher AAV.

[BSN07]

So Alexi Ogando.. I'm guessing he'll get a crack at the rotation in ST, will probably end up in the bullpen or the DL though. Solid low cost high upside signing though.

 

From what I have seen so far the reports are saying probably 7th inning guy.

[sk7326]

I am not a fan of long contracts either. I know that sometimes they are a necessary evil, and in rare cases, a player warrants breaking the bank for, but that would be the exception. I really like what Ben did in the offseason prior to 2013, with his shorter contracts at a higher AAV.

 

You are doubtlessly right in isolation - but sometimes you have to win in an auction situation. I think with the longer deals, you have to evaluate what the "low point" is. You will be overpaying for it, but if you can live with it - and get a lot of value early, it can be a fair investment. In isolation, the Angels extending Mike Trout for 10 million years seems silly - but in context they are (while risking injury clearly) actually probably underpaying if anything.

[Kimmi]

You are doubtlessly right in isolation - but sometimes you have to win in an auction situation. I think with the longer deals, you have to evaluate what the "low point" is. You will be overpaying for it, but if you can live with it - and get a lot of value early, it can be a fair investment. In isolation, the Angels extending Mike Trout for 10 million years seems silly - but in context they are (while risking injury clearly) actually probably underpaying if anything.

 

 

True enough. None of these contracts, or moves in general, can be looked at in isolation. The big factor for me is the "if you can live with it" part. It's just not good decision making to put all of your eggs in one basket, either financially or in terms of prospects, and then be handcuffed if that player doesn't pan out. Once again, this goes back to starting with a strong farm.

[Ogden]

I'd rather over-pay a shorter term contact than give a guy a long term deal. Look how the Yankees are hamstrung by the ridiculously long term contracts they have issued. But they screwed themselves twice by also over-paying for the extra years. That's why I hope Cashman sticks around.

[Bellhorn04]

I'd rather over-pay a shorter term contact than give a guy a long term deal. Look how the Yankees are hamstrung by the ridiculously long term contracts they have issued. But they screwed themselves twice by also over-paying for the extra years. That's why I hope Cashman sticks around.

 

The Yankees philosophy on long term deals has certainly been hurting them the last few years especially.

 

It remains to be seen if the current Red Sox philosophy on long term deals will result in sustained success or not - or even if they'll maintain it.

[Kimmi]

I'd rather over-pay a shorter term contact than give a guy a long term deal. Look how the Yankees are hamstrung by the ridiculously long term contracts they have issued. But they screwed themselves twice by also over-paying for the extra years. That's why I hope Cashman sticks around.

 

 

That's exactly the way I feel. If the player bombs, the team won't be hamstrung for years to come.

 

As far as Cashman goes, I get the feeling that he could/would do a better job if he were given more autonomy. I think he too often has to succumb to the wishes of the Steinbrenners and Levine. Regardless, I am a little disappointed and surprised that they didn't sign any outrageous contracts this offseason.

[Kimmi]

The Yankees philosophy on long term deals has certainly been hurting them the last few years especially.

 

It remains to be seen if the current Red Sox philosophy on long term deals will result in sustained success or not - or even if they'll maintain it.

 

 

The Sox philosophy on long term deals has more or less been in place since this ownership group took over, hasn't it? I know they had some lapses with Crawford and Lackey, but for the most part, they set their ceiling on what they think a player is worth, and they will not go over it. They usually seem willing to overpay some, which is more or less a necessity to signing good FAs, but they will not grossly overpay. I can't see them not maintaining that philosophy.

[User Name]

Less years/more money is definitely the way to go.