Red Sox 2012/2013 Offseason Thread

[seabeachfred]

The Red Sox have two players in their system who could be an ace. Lester and Buchholz. Maybe instead of throwing money at the problem by signing new players, they should throw money at the problem by trying to get those two guys to as healthy and strong as possible. It just seems like there are so many players who had troubles in Boston, and immediately went to another team and thrived.

 

Fire the entire medical staff, and offer to pay the medical staff of an elite team twice or three times as much as they've been making. Hire more trainers, masseuses, physical therapy experts. Find ways to protect them from the media. Maybe look for an elite-elite steroid dealer, like the one Bautista has been seeing.

 

Oh, and maybe replacing that Saltalamacchia guy couldn't hurt:lol:

 

Could or should, y es, but it isn't working with Lester and Buchholz. I get the feeling they are not mentally equipped to assume such a role and may no longer be physically able to either. Of course, you mention medical staff and right there we all know how inept we've been in that department, but what of our pitching coaches. In 2011 we got the one from Oakland none of the pitchers listened much to him and he didn't push it after awhile. Last season we had McClure and all I can say to that is.....ARE YOU f***ING KIDDING ME? The guy had failed and was fired by two other teams before we hired him. As for now, we get this dodo Nieves who had never been a ML pitching coach for any team. How the hell can y ou build a solid staff when you hire garbage like this?

 

Even Farrell crapped out after his first two years with us, allowing the inept FrancoMa to pretty much overrule him on many key occasions.

[BSN07]

Could or should, y es, but it isn't working with Lester and Buchholz. I get the feeling they are not mentally equipped to assume such a role and may no longer be physically able to either. Of course, you mention medical staff and right there we all know how inept we've been in that department, but what of our pitching coaches. In 2011 we got the one from Oakland none of the pitchers listened much to him and he didn't push it after awhile. Last season we had McClure and all I can say to that is.....ARE YOU f***ING KIDDING ME? The guy had failed and was fired by two other teams before we hired him. As for now, we get this dodo Nieves who had never been a ML pitching coach for any team. How the hell can y ou build a solid staff when you hire garbage like this?

 

Even Farrell crapped out after his first two years with us, allowing the inept FrancoMa to pretty much overrule him on many key occasions.

 

Because Farrell is likely to have a big part in the pitching program and be very hands on wth the SP. He needed a PC that was not going to be against it. Nieves has a good reputation around the league and I would guess is not against following Farrells plan.

[seabeachfred]

Because Farrell is likely to have a big part in the pitching program and be very hands on wth the SP. He needed a PC that was not going to be against it. Nieves has a good reputation around the league and I would guess is not against following Farrells plan.

 

That's encouraging 07. It's been sort of a downer today reading about how the damn Dodgers are signing everyone for tons of money while we cannot even nab a starting pitcher worthy of the name. Maybe things might work out after all....maybe.

[Palodios]

Dodgers just signed Ryu as well. Seems they have a glut of SP. Any interest in Billinglsey?

 

Absolutely. I wonder if they would be interested in Sands and De La Rosa?

 

But in all seriousness, yes, he's definitely worth looking into, but I seriously doubt they'd want to trade him-- Capuano or Harang are the guys who will probably be moved.

[Bellhorn04]

But Beckett, Hanley, Lilly, Harang, Billingsly, and a few others are all off the books within the next 2 seasons.They might be over for a couple years. But I think they will get back under(LT should be bumped up over the next couple seasons too).

 

The LT threshold is frozen at 189 million for 2014 through 2016, or until the end of the current CBA.

[SoxSport]

Just saw "Bull Durham" again today. Aside from being about Susan Sarandon's pussy, there was a serious baseball message: the pitcher should never overrule the catcher on pitch calls. That means the catcher better know what he is doing. I get the impression that hasn't always been the case lately in Boston. Just another detail overlooked by the management.

[Dojji]

Just saw "Bull Durham" again today. Aside from being about Susan Sarandon's pussy, there was a serious baseball message: the pitcher should never overrule the catcher on pitch calls. That means the catcher better know what he is doing. I get the impression that hasn't always been the case lately in Boston. Just another detail overlooked by the management.

 

I think we all hoped Salty would mature more than he did over the last 2 years. Before then, there really was no ability to sub in a younger catcher to try and ease him in alongside a still-vital Varitek because of the Martinez trade -- a deal I'm still shaking my head in disgust over.

 

Even if all you had to work with at the time was George Kottaras, that's still less stupid than emptying the cupboard to bring in yet another aging catcher when you're trying to maintain a perennial contender. At least TRY to groom a younger catcher while he's still able to learn at Tek's feet for multiple seasons.

[reYoukilis]

Just saw "Bull Durham" again today. Aside from being about Susan Sarandon's pussy, there was a serious baseball message: the pitcher should never overrule the catcher on pitch calls. That means the catcher better know what he is doing. I get the impression that hasn't always been the case lately in Boston. Just another detail overlooked by the management.

 

Supposedly Ross is excellent in this area.

[Lucienbel]

Because Farrell is likely to have a big part in the pitching program and be very hands on wth the SP. He needed a PC that was not going to be against it. Nieves has a good reputation around the league and I would guess is not against following Farrells plan.

 

I definitely think Nieves deserves a shot. While he's never worked in the majors, people need to start somewhere. The one thing I have promised myself that I will do is give Farrell and his coaching staff a fair shot this season, so we'll see what happens. It seems like he had a plan in mind when he went to make this staff, and it also seems like he was able to get some guys that would help him carry it out well. Now lets hope Cherrington gets a pitcher or two that are decent so this club at least gets a fair chance.

[DocHolliday]

Lots of dominoes falling over the weekend with the Grienke signing and the Shields trade.

 

Should be another interesting week of corresponding moves.

 

You have to think a move to address the rotation should be coming soon - with Ellsbury, Salty/Lavarnway, Aceves, and various minor leaguers all as potential trade chips and the FA market for pitchers beginning to take shape.

[BSN07]

Lots of dominoes falling over the weekend with the Grienke signing and the Shields trade.

 

Should be another interesting week of corresponding moves.

 

You have to think a move to address the rotation should be coming soon - with Ellsbury, Salty/Lavarnway, Aceves, and various minor leaguers all as potential trade chips and the FA market for pitchers beginning to take shape.

 

Ya I would imagine we are going to start seeing a rush of action. Floyd is still a trade candidate. Mets want a Kings ransom for Dickey which I think is laughable, so pass. Nieves doesn't work either. Bailey could be trade bait. Cincy wants a leadoff CF. If the Sox can secure another COF then Ellsbury to Cincy for one year of Bailey(I think hes probably a #4 in the AL East right now, but could be a #2 if he adjusts well) + maybe a prospect(Ells has 30 HR potential easy in that bandbox in Cincy)would make sense.

 

Lester

Buchholz

Floyd

Bailey

Doubront

 

Lackey, Morales

 

I think that rotation although with some ? would have enough promise to get the Sox started next season. Also it doesn't clog anything long term if some of those guys don't work out, doesn't cost any of the major prospects. Also if for some reason things go south before the TDL any one of those SP would have some value in trades. So they could restock again with some prospects and focus on 2014. I like these moves cause it allows them to go many different directions depending on how the team is doing.

[User Name]

Bailey has been a mediocre, injury-riddled pitcher his entire career. One decent year and he's already being penciled in as an effective AL East pitcher.

 

I don't think so.

[BSN07]

Bailey has been a mediocre, injury-riddled pitcher his entire career. One decent year and he's already being penciled in as an effective AL East pitcher.

 

I don't think so.

 

I said #4 with possible upside to maybe #2 if everything clicks. While it's not the AL East he pitches in a hitters park and has done a good job. He's not going to be an ace. But those guys aren't available. Besides he's 26. He is entering his prime. I think it's foolish to give up on someone at his age and skill level. Ya he's an injury worry. But who's to say last season wasn't his breakthrough year? It's worth a shot.

 

 

edit: He has similar numbers to McCarthy who a lot of people would have been ok with him going to the Sox.

[a700hitter]

edit: He has similar numbers to McCarthy who a lot of people would have been ok with him going to the Sox.

McCarthy wouldn't have cost us Ellsbury. We have the money to sign a McCarthy without losing much payroll flexibility. We really don't have a lot of trading chips-- Ellsbury is the major one. I wouldn't waste Ellsbury on Bailey.

[BSN07]

McCarthy wouldn't have cost us Ellsbury. We have the money to sign a McCarthy without losing much payroll flexibility. We really don't have a lot of trading chips-- Ellsbury is the major one. I wouldn't waste Ellsbury on Bailey.

 

Yes but Ellsbury is gone after this season. Bailey is a FA too. So they would still get a pick. Bailey has upside and is probably a better bet to be able to extend if he did well. I also said they would need to add a COF before doing this. So theoretically you could look at it as Ellsbury, Victorino and current SP or Vic, Ross/Hamilton/Swisher/whomever and Bailey added to the SP. Which scenario do you like better? I like the one with Vic in CF player X n RF and Bailey added to the rotation.

[User Name]

The problem here is trading Ellsbury for a pitcher who not only isn't that good, but is only controlled for a year. It makes no sense.

[a700hitter]

Yes but Ellsbury is gone after this season. Bailey is a FA too. So they would still get a pick. Bailey has upside and is probably a better bet to be able to extend if he did well. I also said they would need to add a COF before doing this. So theoretically you could look at it as Ellsbury, Victorino and current SP or Vic, Ross/Hamilton/Swisher/whomever and Bailey added to the SP. Which scenario do you like better? I like the one with Vic in CF player X n RF and Bailey added to the rotation.

I never had a high opinion of Bailey. He has not lived up to he promise he had as a prospect.

[example1]

Agreed on Bailey. Sox should at least get a pick for Ellsbury when he leaves, and I don't think Bailey is enough return. Bailey plus high upside lower minor leaguer maybe.

[BSN07]

Agreed on Bailey. Sox should at least get a pick for Ellsbury when he leaves, and I don't think Bailey is enough return. Bailey plus high upside lower minor leaguer maybe.

 

Ok but think about it, how many deals for Ellsbury get you a SP+? Not many. Most of the deals we have discussed here would send prospects along with Ellsbury in a deal for a SP. I lke this deal because it's a SP with some upside and no prospects added to Ellsbury. Now f there was someone considerably better available in a deal that sent Ells + prospects then ok, but I don't think that deal is out there right now.

 

They can still get a Pick for Bailey. He will be 27 going into his age 28 season next off season. The Sox can offer him a qualifying offer because I think it would be safe to bet someone will sign him.

[dupree]

Its looking more & more like Ellsbury is staying until atleast midseason hoping he has a good first half & then if talks between Boras & the FO are outrageously far apart then they will roll him

 

Another question is does anyone think that Hamilton will leave Texas now with Grienke signing with the Dodgers? Texas has said they would only go 3 but i think they will go more. Also if the run at Grienke & if Texas would have landed him then it would of left Hamilton out in the cold with the organization has pissed him off any? Also the talks about landing Upton in a trade has shown some inside knowledge that Hamilton is wanting more years than what the Rangers are willing to go & are letting Hamilton walk without coming right out and saying we are not in.

 

Ultimately i think Hamilton goes back & the Upton doesnt happen and he stays in AZ

But still i think the red sox needs another big bat in the middle of the order or last place here we come plus no pitching has been added

[DocHolliday]

Its looking more & more like Ellsbury is staying until atleast midseason hoping he has a good first half & then if talks between Boras & the FO are outrageously far apart then they will roll him

 

Another question is does anyone think that Hamilton will leave Texas now with Grienke signing with the Dodgers? Texas has said they would only go 3 but i think they will go more. Also if the run at Grienke & if Texas would have landed him then it would of left Hamilton out in the cold with the organization has pissed him off any? Also the talks about landing Upton in a trade has shown some inside knowledge that Hamilton is wanting more years than what the Rangers are willing to go & are letting Hamilton walk without coming right out and saying we are not in.

 

Ultimately i think Hamilton goes back & the Upton doesnt happen and he stays in AZ

But still i think the red sox needs another big bat in the middle of the order or last place here we come plus no pitching has been added

 

I agree that Hamilton will likely end up back in TX, especially with the way the market has developed to this point.

 

The only other possible trade I could see the Rangers making to address CF would be an Andrus for Granderson swap. Given the Yankees issues on the left side of the infield and their reluctance to resign both Cano and Granderson after this season, this would make sense for them (move Gardner to CF and put Jeter in RF or 3B, sign someone like Ichiro to play LF). For the Rangers, it addresses their CF need and allows them to move Profar to SS and let Olt/Moreland split time between 1B and DH (with Olt also giving Beltre occasional days off at 3rd base).

 

Still, there are a lot of ?'s with this type of move and I think it's unlikely they go this route.

[dupree]

I agree that Hamilton will likely end up back in TX, especially with the way the market has developed to this point.

 

The only other possible trade I could see the Rangers making to address CF would be an Andrus for Granderson swap. Given the Yankees issues on the left side of the infield and their reluctance to resign both Cano and Granderson after this season, this would make sense for them (move Gardner to CF and put Jeter in RF or 3B, sign someone like Ichiro to play LF). For the Rangers, it addresses their CF need and allows them to move Profar to SS and let Olt/Moreland split time between 1B and DH (with Olt also giving Beltre occasional days off at 3rd base).

 

Still, there are a lot of ?'s with this type of move and I think it's unlikely they go this route.

 

I had never thought of that trade but with the Yankees having around 170million already committed & still needing pitching a 3rd baseman

Personally i love seeing them in a financial crunch & i hate the organization with everything in me but as far as a baseball move to free up payroll they are going to have to do something or only have 15 players on the major league roster

[dupree]

We all know we need pitching & could talk about it until our fingers have blisters & start to skab over before the FO actually gets an arm...

 

Current line-up

 

Ellsbury

Victorino

Peddy

Ortiz

Nap

Middlebrooks

Salty

Gomes

Iggy

 

We need atleast 1 more big bat... I think a left handed bat to slot in there at the 3 spot and move Vic to the bottom of the order and peedy back in the 2 spot is a move for this year and into the future... Bring in Hamilton on a 5 year 125 contract and let the media and all the adoring fans say how bad of move for him and the FO it was... But come midseason and the redsox are 7-10 games ahead in 1st place all the nay sayers will not be saying a word and talking about how good of job this offseason was

Winning changing everything... at current time we are still a 70 win team

[SoxFanForsyth]

We all know we need pitching & could talk about it until our fingers have blisters & start to skab over before the FO actually gets an arm...

 

Current line-up

 

Ellsbury

Victorino

Peddy

Ortiz

Nap

Middlebrooks

Salty

Gomes

Iggy

 

We need atleast 1 more big bat... I think a left handed bat to slot in there at the 3 spot and move Vic to the bottom of the order and peedy back in the 2 spot is a move for this year and into the future... Bring in Hamilton on a 5 year 125 contract and let the media and all the adoring fans say how bad of move for him and the FO it was... But come midseason and the redsox are 7-10 games ahead in 1st place all the nay sayers will not be saying a word and talking about how good of job this offseason was

Winning changing everything... at current time we are still a 70 win team

 

I know that this is a "as of right now" lineup, but I really think the Sox hate Salty's defense, specifically his pitch calling and framing.

 

I don't buy into CERA very often, but nearly all of our pitchers have just been awful with Salty.

 

All this to say, I think Lavarnway starts at C over Salty. At least we'll get some damn OBP out of that position.

 

I do agree, though, we need another LHH in this lineup.

[BSN07]

I know that this is a "as of right now" lineup, but I really think the Sox hate Salty's defense, specifically his pitch calling and framing.

 

I don't buy into CERA very often, but nearly all of our pitchers have just been awful with Salty.

 

All this to say, I think Lavarnway starts at C over Salty. At least we'll get some damn OBP out of that position.

 

I do agree, though, we need another LHH in this lineup.

 

I think Ross plays more then both of them.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I think Ross plays more then both of them.

 

That'd be fine with me. I like Ross a lot. In terms of calling a game, he reminds me of Varitek.

 

Except he can throw people out. And hit.

[DocHolliday]

We all know we need pitching & could talk about it until our fingers have blisters & start to skab over before the FO actually gets an arm...

 

Current line-up

 

Ellsbury

Victorino

Peddy

Ortiz

Nap

Middlebrooks

Salty

Gomes

Iggy

 

We need atleast 1 more big bat... I think a left handed bat to slot in there at the 3 spot and move Vic to the bottom of the order and peedy back in the 2 spot is a move for this year and into the future... Bring in Hamilton on a 5 year 125 contract and let the media and all the adoring fans say how bad of move for him and the FO it was... But come midseason and the redsox are 7-10 games ahead in 1st place all the nay sayers will not be saying a word and talking about how good of job this offseason was

Winning changing everything... at current time we are still a 70 win team

 

This is what I would hope would happen if they signed Hamilton. I just have my doubts about his ability to perform to the expectations we all would have for him. And even if he did, if they don't address the SP issues, they would still struggle and we would all be saying things like "they should have spent more $ on a pitcher like McCarthy or Jackson instead of dumping it all on OF and 1B."

 

By default though, Hamilton signing here would come after the SP was addressed. Hamilton would only sign here if they traded Ellsbury. And the only scenario I see them trading Elllsbury is to address the SP.

[dupree]

I think Ross does play a lot but I think he splits time with someone

I didnt think when the off season started that we would be talking soo much about trading Salty but the pitching staff has been horrible with him but i think John Farrell can change it all around & if Salty stays he will get the majority of the time looking to the dugout getting pitch calls from Farrell or the PC with Farrell telling him what to call

 

Lav and Iggy both could be bigger trade market pieces than Ells & Salty because of peoples view of their low cost & high ceilings... i know they didnt show much last year but still most clubs like on the verge prospects than players only under control for a year like Ells and Salty had good power #s for the position but is too streaky for me he should only hit from the left side & Ross hit from the right.. platoon set

[BSN07]

He will play like 50%, Lavs 40% and Napoli 10%(catching Lackey). That's my guess.

[dupree]

This is what I would hope would happen if they signed Hamilton. I just have my doubts about his ability to perform to the expectations we all would have for him. And even if he did, if they don't address the SP issues, they would still struggle and we would all be saying things like "they should have spent more $ on a pitcher like McCarthy or Jackson instead of dumping it all on OF and 1B."

 

By default though, Hamilton signing here would come after the SP was addressed. Hamilton would only sign here if they traded Ellsbury. And the only scenario I see them trading Elllsbury is to address the SP.

 

Ellsbury isnt going anwhere until midseason at the earliest cuz the FO will think they are losing quality replacement prospect pieces if they let him go now..

 

Hamilton is a definite need in my eyes... good or bad opinions on him he has shwon he can hit & carry a line up... get him in an organization that has other hitters in fron and behind to protect him from being walked all game & watch a laser show... peddy then hamilton would be epic... also get him just a lil more disciplined with waiting on his pich will help him as well but i love the fact that when u pitch to this guy u have to worry about him swinging no matter what the pitch count hes done it for years dont fix what doesnt need fixing

 

Also on the pitching front a trade for a guy like trevor cahill instead of Bauer would be a good sign... slot Cahill into the #4 slot will take the pressure off & is a great addition down year last year but we saw what he done in Oakland i like options like thta instead of pitchers from the NL coming to the AL & thinking they can pitch when a pitchers has to worry bout all 9the hitters