Red Sox 2012/2013 Offseason Thread

[BSN07]

I read that the other day as well, but it sounded like it was a hypothetical, and not based on any facts or knowledge of the insurance policy. I thought that insurance companies simply don't insure players after 3-4 years of a contract because they'd almost always get burned.

 

I believe the insurance policy kicked in and covers like 75% of the deal is he misses a full season due to injury. Or something like that. Regardless I believe Arods contract will count against the LT until it expires. I'm not sure what would happen with a buyout if it came to it.

[mvp 78]

No way would the Dodgers give up Kershaw. He's an absolute stud though. I'd give up a metric f***-ton for him.

[Bellhorn04]

I don't think the Dodgers are exactly in the 'trading away stud starters' mode right now.

[jung]

I would not think ARod has a single reason to consider a buyout of his contract.

[Bellhorn04]

Surely they can reassemble ARod into a DH at least.

[example1]

My guess is that the sox make a major acquisition via a trade.

 

I think it's going to make massive waves because its going to be for someone who nobody ever thought would be available.

 

Whether its for Gerrit Cole, perhaps Trevor Bauer, a 3 way deal for David Price, blow away the Dodgers for Clayton Kershaw, I'm not sure, but I'll tell you what, they're going to land a monster pitcher.

 

Highly unlikely, at least the Kershaw or Price part. No way the Rays do a trade that results in the Sox getting Price. Gerrit Cole or Trevor Bauer would be really exciting options, but would take a lot to acquire. Would the Sox be willing to move Middlebrooks + or Bogaerts + for one of them?

 

As valuable as young pitching is, aren't hitters who can hit 30+ HR consistently actually rarer in this post PEDs environment than a pitcher who can post a 3-something ERA? Not saying both of them are definitely 30+ guys, but they could be. Middlebrooks would have hit 32 in a 162g spread last year.

 

It really may just be an issue of waiting for Barnes, Webster and or De La Rosa to come up.

[jung]

It is hard for me to accept the notion that we are beyond the PED era. Seems to me they are still snaggin' people at a pretty alarming rate with a system that has more holes than swiss chess. I do think we are seeing a resurgence of dominant pitching and that the numbers we are seeing from the batters box side of things are more a reflection on the general quality of the pitching and the general sparsity of hitters making solid plate appearances.

[example1]

It is hard for me to accept the notion that we are beyond the PED era. Seems to me they are still snaggin' people at a pretty alarming rate with a system that has more holes than swiss chess. I do think we are seeing a resurgence of dominant pitching and that the numbers we are seeing from the batters box side of things are more a reflection on the general quality of the pitching and the general sparsity of hitters making solid plate appearances.

 

I'm pretty sure that the overall number of runs scored is not randomly associated with the reduction of some of the more hardcore PEDs out there. Stimulants, obvious steroids, etc., created superhuman athletes. I agree that there are probably PEDs still in the game, but they are different kinds and the results are different.

[jung]

Most definitely different PED's but they may not be all that less effective considering what the game has become.

 

Players now struggle more than ever with recovery...recovery from the double header, recovery from a night game when they are faced with a day game, recovery from arduous travel schedules and recovery from injury. Recovery is precisely what many of this generation of PED's addresses offering faster recovery, more complete recovery allowing players to go out and on the field with 100% of their capability intact as opposed to some number less than 100%. If we go back to the comments AGons made it would appear that just the travel schedule can be arduous enough to create issues for players.

 

In addition, we have no idea what they might be using because the one thing the MLB testing is not is comprehensive...it is just not.

 

I suspect that at this point a very high percentage of players are using something probably even multiple somethings. Now that these guys are onto more sophisticated formulas that don't result in bulking up, that tip off no longer exists. I would believe almost without question that there is a much higher percentage of players using something than there has ever been before. The $ incentive is simply to high, the test regimen is simply to incomplete and frankly the league and certainly the players association prefer not to know. That is not what they say, but if that were not the case, their positions would not be so obviously flawed. On the one hand we have MLB resisting improvements to a program of testing that is porous and flawed and a PA that avails itself of every opportunity to call for an end to testing instead of demanding improvements to testing.

[seabeachfred]

I think the pump is primed for a move like this as well. The interesting thing is that is sounds like Seattle is the leader in the clubhouse at three years and maybe 25m per. If Texas were to sign Greinke (fingers crossed) they would likely be out of the running. The biggest concern for the Sox with Hamilton is the length of contract he's asking for. If the Sox biggest competition for him is already at 3 years then they can jump in with a bigger AAV and make it happen. At 3 years that would be a tolerable acquisition; 4 years, maybe; anything longer, no thanks.

 

If the Red Sox are really interested in Josh Hamilton they had better not dither. Everything now seems to point to the Yankees suddenly getting into the mix and if they do he will end up in the Bronx. This is their MO and they have done this before. They feign no interest, watch other teams feint and fake and then blow by them. I believe Hamilton needs to be signed as soon as possible IF the Red Sox are really interested in him because you better believe that with A-Rod gone they could use a LH power man and Josh would be devastating in their ballpark. IMHO the Red Sox have no more time to lose on this.

[Marqui]

GordonEdes

Red Sox offered pitcher Ryan Dempster a two-year, $25 million deal and were turned down, according to source

[jung]

Well now isn't that interesting. I wonder if the Sox haven't finally revealed something about how they process their possible pitching options.

 

I suppose I could see how Dempter would turn that deal down. Might not sound like enough to come over here and get clocked. Sort of suggests that Dempster is smarter than the Sox are when it comes to pitching.

 

I don't understand not taking a shot at some of the guys that were out there for one year deals only to try to hang Dempster around their necks for two years. It does sort of sound like something they would do....unfortunately.

[a700hitter]

GordonEdes

Red Sox offered pitcher Ryan Dempster a two-year, $25 million deal and were turned down, according to source

This doesn't inspire much confidence.

[Lucienbel]

This doesn't inspire much confidence.

 

Hopefully they just decide that's the best deal they'll give him and call it a day on him.

[a700hitter]

The Red Sox "would be expected to jump in" on Kyle Lohse if he was willing to accept a three-year contract, writes ESPN Boston's Gordon Edes.* We heard during the Winter Meetings that the Red Sox and Angels were both interested in Lohse.

This is also uninspiring.

[RedSoxNC84]

At least it wasn't 3/39.

[RedSoxNC84]

Johnny Damon is looking for a job, maybe he'll be our next right fielder

[iortiz]

IMO we overpaid Victorino and this guy Gomes. So, if that is going to be the way this offseason, I prefer to overpay on SPs even on 2nd/3rd tier pitchers than bench players like Gomes and the C we signed .... We just can't go like this and trust in our "3-5" or even our "1-2", So... Get the gooddamn arms.

[a700hitter]

IMO we overpaid Victorino and this guy Gomes. So, if that is going to be the way this offseason, I prefer to overpay on SPs even on 2nd/3rd tier pitchers than bench players like Gomes and the C we signed .... We just can't go like this and trust in our "3-5" or even our "1-2", So... Get the gooddamn arms.

We like to sit and hope that Cherries has a good plan that he is working on implementing, but then you watch a long list of pitchers come off the boards and read about him making big offers to the likes of Dempster and Lohse. It makes you scratch your head.

[iortiz]

We like to sit and hope that Cherries has a good plan that he is working on implementing, but then you watch a long list of pitchers come off the boards and read about him making big offers to the likes of Dempster and Lohse. It makes you scratch your head.

 

Unfortunately we skipped on guys like Buehrle, Kuroda, Gio, etc in the past. I clearly remember that some posters said that this offseason was going to be a better deck and that we had to wait. Big fish are gone. We need to fix for once and for all our rotation. IDK if this going to be via FA or trade but Ben has to start this offseason and do not wait one more year IMO.

[a700hitter]

Unfortunately we skipped on guys like Buehrle, Kuroda, Gio, etc in the past. I clearly remember that some posters said that this offseason was going to be a better deck and that we had to wait. Big fish are gone. We need to fix for once and for all our rotation. IDK if this going to be via FA or trade but Ben has to start this offseason and do not wait one more year IMO.

 

Yep, and I think you had cautioned people last year that the big fish would be extended by their teams and not be available.

[Palodios]

Unfortunately we skipped on guys like Buehrle, Kuroda, Gio, etc in the past. I clearly remember that some posters said that this offseason was going to be a better deck and that we had to wait. Big fish are gone. We need to fix for once and for all our rotation. IDK if this going to be via FA or trade but Ben has to start this offseason and do not wait one more year IMO.

 

Pretty much everyone who was available last year was available against this year, except for Gio, and Gio Gonzalez would have cost Bogaertz, Bradley and Ranaudo--maybe more. The real problem is that when those players were all available again this year, the Red Sox took a pass.

[iortiz]

Yep, and I think you had cautioned people last year that the big fish would be extended by their teams and not be available.

 

Well, I guess, you just do not let walk guys like Cain, even if you have to overpay them.

[a700hitter]

Pretty much everyone who was available last year was available against this year, except for Gio, and Gio Gonzalez would have cost Bogaertz, Bradley and Ranaudo--maybe more. The real problem is that when those players were all available again this year, the Red Sox took a pass.

I have followed the progress of the guys that the Nats gave up. They got a very good deal. Plus, they got a sweet contract extension for Gio.

[Palodios]

I have followed the progress of the guys that the Nats gave up. They got a very good deal. Plus, they got a sweet contract extension for Gio.

 

Maybe it worked out well in the end for the Nats, but two of those guys were top 50 prospects. The equivalent haul from the Red Sox was Bogaertz and Bradley. That's a steep price to pay for a guy who had a 4.20 ERA outside of Oakland.

 

If put in the same situation again, I would still avoid Gio, and pick up Buerhle. Picking up no one is the problem here.

[iortiz]

Pretty much everyone who was available last year was available against this year, except for Gio, and Gio Gonzalez would have cost Bogaertz, Bradley and Ranaudo--maybe more. The real problem is that when those players were all available again this year, the Red Sox took a pass.

 

Yup, I have no clue why they pass over and over again, even knowing that this is our main need, I just do not get it... Unless they are trying to get a guy like Felix or something, I simply do not understand... And I do not think that the answer in order to solve this (pitching) is in our farm in the short/middle-term.

[example1]

Unfortunately we skipped on guys like Buehrle, Kuroda, Gio, etc in the past. I clearly remember that some posters said that this offseason was going to be a better deck and that we had to wait. Big fish are gone. We need to fix for once and for all our rotation. IDK if this going to be via FA or trade but Ben has to start this offseason and do not wait one more year IMO.

 

While I understand your frustration I just don't see how Buehrle would make this team considerably better right now. Lets say they signed him last year, would we be happy with the rotation now? How about in 2-3 years?

 

My point isn't that your frustration is misguided. It's that each of these non-moves had context and reasoning. I think missing out on Kuroda sucked last year. However, they had no money thanks to a bunch of other s***** contracts (which many people here applauded at the time they were signed). Gio Gonzalez, if I remember correctly, would have required Will Middlebrooks. That might be a trade worth makin but it is a significant value and I'm not upset the sox have Middlebrooks at this point.

 

Yes they need to get one or two great SPs, no doubt. I suspect they will, but it may not be this offseason where we say "that's the one!".

 

Also, Lohse? No thanks. One year, maybe...

[a700hitter]

Maybe it worked out well in the end for the Nats, but two of those guys were top 50 prospects. The equivalent haul from the Red Sox was Bogaertz and Bradley. That's a steep price to pay for a guy who had a 4.20 ERA outside of Oakland.

 

If put in the same situation again, I would still avoid Gio, and pick up Buerhle. Picking up no one is the problem here.

 

I disagree with you about Gio, but I am in total agreement with your assessment of the overall problem. There were many ways to go. Doing nothing is perplexing to me?

[iortiz]

While I understand your frustration I just don't see how Buehrle would make this team considerably better right now. Lets say they signed him last year, would we be happy with the rotation now? How about in 2-3 years?

 

My point isn't that your frustration is misguided. It's that each of these non-moves had context and reasoning. I think missing out on Kuroda sucked last year. However, they had no money thanks to a bunch of other s***** contracts (which many people here applauded at the time they were signed). Gio Gonzalez, if I remember correctly, would have required Will Middlebrooks. That might be a trade worth makin but it is a significant value and I'm not upset the sox have Middlebrooks at this point.

 

Yes they need to get one or two great SPs, no doubt. I suspect they will, but it may not be this offseason where we say "that's the one!".

 

Also, Lohse? No thanks. One year, maybe...

I do not know what the name is going to be and what it is going to take (money/trade). The truth is that we just do not do nothing while other teams take risks... Sure, some will sound very "risky" (like Lohse or Dempster) and some not that much (like Kuroda or Buehrle) but Geez, At least try something for God's sake.

[Palodios]

I've been seriously warming up to the thought of signing Edwin Jackson. His career numbers scared me a bit, but I didn't realize that he made his MLB debut at 19.

 

He's 29 years old, so a three year contract would only put him at 32. Over the last four years, he's been a 4.00 ERA pitcher, tons of innings. I wonder if 3/39 would be enough to get him on this team?