D-backs (Pfaadt) vs Red Sox (Tolle): 08/19/26, 4:10 PM

[iortiz]

18 minutes ago, notin said:

Weissert has an option so the Sox clearly think he’s the better pitcher.  But I think the Sox Wil shuttle Weissert, Burgos, and Olds back and forth to make up for  their lack of starter depth.  But not Samaniego for reasons no one can explain.

Regardless, if the worst pitcher in your pen is Weissert, you have a really good bullpen…

To my eyes Burgos is better, and he should be a better option in close games everyday of the week and twice on Sundays over Weissert when all is said and done. Weissert has cost us a lot of games this season. 

[Duran Is The Man]

 f*** you Wiessert and f*** you Moron.  when Wisssert goes in, it's not if he'll give up a run, it's how many. every. f***ing. time.

[Nick]

10 hours ago, illinoisredsox said:

Yes.  If he’s on the 40 man and there is a stoppage, he can’t participate in any official baseball activities.  That means minor league games in addition to any medical treatment, etc.  

There is a political consideration as well (and let’s leave any comments on current federal immigration policy aside please; it is what it is). Arias is from Venezuela, so I assume he’s here on a work visa of some sort.  If he’s not being paid, would he even be allowed back into the US?  If not, that means he’s left with whatever workouts he can cob together in his home country.

IMO, they are better off leaving him at Worcester and having him actually playing baseball rather than doing who knows what in Venezuela.  He’s 20-21, he needs to play.

Plus they lose a year of control if he’s on the 40 man, even if there’s  no season.

I don’t envy the prople wio have to make these decisions

The whole point is whether he can help the parent club THIS YEAR. What's a big deal if he gets to play in the minors MAYBE if there's a work stoppage when he COULD help us win the World Series THIS year? I just don't get your thinking. The whole idea is to win the big one. Not winning because you didn't do enough affects 26 man years wasted. Think about THAT.

[Hugh2]

12 hours ago, JoeBrady said:

I don't see it.  Is someone saying that the RS won't promote Arias because there might be a work stoppage in 2027?  I don't get it.

While that certainly may be part of the equation I believe it has to be far down the list of priorities. 

[Hugh2]

12 minutes ago, Nick said:

The whole point is whether he can help the parent club THIS YEAR. What's a big deal if he gets to play in the minors MAYBE if there's a work stoppage when he COULD help us win the World Series THIS year? I just don't get your thinking. The whole idea is to win the big one. Not winning because you didn't do enough affects 26 man years wasted. Think about THAT.

We should also think about what most MLB caliber players do when they first enter the bigs.  Many players, even all star caliber players struggle anywhere from a few weeks to a year or two until they really grow into the player they are.  

I don't believe we have the ability to tell how fast a guy is going to hit the ground running at the big league level by evaluating his box score, and I think we've seen this time and time again over the years.  We should think about that too. 

Story is going to get first crack, whether or not people like that he is.  If he comes back and is the player he was last year he very well may be just as good as Arias would be adjusting at the big league level.  And if that is reality, then why wouldn't you take the extra year of control and play the guy you HAVE to pay. 

If it looks bad with Story you can always call up Arias. But if you call him up first the clock starts ticking. 

[moonslav59]

Those pen games have come back to haunt us.

[notin]

3 hours ago, Nick said:

The whole point is whether he can help the parent club THIS YEAR. What's a big deal if he gets to play in the minors MAYBE if there's a work stoppage when he COULD help us win the World Series THIS year? I just don't get your thinking. The whole idea is to win the big one. Not winning because you didn't do enough affects 26 man years wasted. Think about THAT.

Is 20yo Franklin Arias necessarily an improvement over uninjured Story? Sometimes these kids do struggle, regardless of Prospect Pedigree.  Just look at Kristian Campbell.

Now if an allegedly healthier Story struggles (possible) or gets hurt again (pretty f***ing likely), maybe they revisit Arias.  But the Sox can only play one shortstop at a time…

[notin]

24 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Those pen games have come back to haunt us.

Yes.  That’s why they’re stupid.

Im ok with an opener in front of Bello throwing 5-6 IP.  In fact, thats a really smart strategy.  But beyond that, no pen games, please…

 

[notin]

3 hours ago, Hugh2 said:

 

Story is going to get first crack, whether or not people like that he is.  If he comes back and is the player he was last year he very well may be just as good as Arias would be adjusting at the big league level.  And if that is reality, then why wouldn't you take the extra year of control and play the guy you HAVE to pay. 

If it looks bad with Story you can always call up Arias. But if you call him up first the clock starts ticking. 

Exactly.

Story is the starter and Arias is the lifeboat.  

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I'm not worried about a 20-year old playing shortstop. I just hope they take it easy on Old Man Story returning from his hernia -- pushing him too hard might ruin him for wife!

[Behindenemylines]

17 hours ago, iortiz said:

To my eyes Burgos is better, and he should be a better option in close games everyday of the week and twice on Sundays over Weissert when all is said and done. Weissert has cost us a lot of games this season. 

Agree! This is a game which the injuries in the bullpen (Whitlock and Slaten) cost us. I am so done with Weissert. 

[moonslav59]

5 hours ago, notin said:

Yes.  That’s why they’re stupid.

Im ok with an opener in front of Bello throwing 5-6 IP.  In fact, thats a really smart strategy.  But beyond that, no pen games, please…

 

The water under the bridge may be too murky to ever clear up.

[JoeBrady]

18 hours ago, notin said:

Regardless, if the worst pitcher in your pen is Weissert, you have a really good bullpen…

I wasn't going to respond, but since you did, it is worth noting (or notin?) that Weissert's ERA+ is 100 this year and 120 for his career.

[JoeBrady]

9 hours ago, Hugh2 said:

We should also think about what most MLB caliber players do when they first enter the bigs. 

Knowing how hot Arias is, and know how cold Story was, history still suggests Story will out-perform in the short run.  And Story is an existential type of decision.  If we go with Arias, then Story gets cut.  If Arias hits .200, we won't have Story to fall back on.

[JoeBrady]

6 hours ago, notin said:

Yes.  That’s why they’re stupid.

Im ok with an opener in front of Bello throwing 5-6 IP.  In fact, thats a really smart strategy.  But beyond that, no pen games, please…

 

I think we've only had one BP game in the 2nd half, and that was during a doubleheader.

[Maxbialystock]

18 hours ago, iortiz said:

To my eyes Burgos is better, and he should be a better option in close games everyday of the week and twice on Sundays over Weissert when all is said and done. Weissert has cost us a lot of games this season. 

He is right now with 10 IP and a 2.70 ERA.

Weissert's August ERA is 5.40 but last month it was 3.27.  In June 4.00, in May 3.27.  in April 3.38.  In March he gave up 6 runs in 2.1 IP for an ERA 16.20.  

[moonslav59]

2 hours ago, JoeBrady said:

I wasn't going to respond, but since you did, it is worth noting (or notin?) that Weissert's ERA+ is 100 this year and 120 for his career.

ERA and ERA+ are not good stats for RP'ers who often only need to get one or two outs in an inning they enter.

His .723 OPS against and 1.26 WHIP are far from bad, but not very good either.

Career .693 is not bad at all.

[notin]

13 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

ERA and ERA+ are not good stats for RP'ers who often only need to get one or two outs in an inning they enter.

His .723 OPS against and 1.26 WHIP are far from bad, but not very good either.

Career .693 is not bad at all.

Weissert’s ERA is nice but his HR/9 is pretty ugly…

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

25 minutes ago, notin said:

Weissert’s ERA is nice but his HR/9 is pretty ugly…

a 4.10 ERA is nice to opponents, especially when it doesn't account for inherited baserunners allowed that only mar the ERA of the pitcher he replaced...

... for example, 6 of Weissert's 8 HRs served came with men on base (though I don't know how many of those men were inherited runners).

Then again, bb-ref tells us this: 2 outs, RISP = BA of .191... but High Leverage = .308.

However, no one in Italy can forget when their closer struck out Aaron Judge in the WBC! Greg will never have to pay for an expresso in Tuscany again.

[notin]

46 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

 

However, no one in Italy can forget when their closer struck out Aaron Judge in the WBC! Greg will never have to pay for an expresso in Tuscany again.

Is an expresso just a faster version of an espresso?

[drewski6]

15 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

ERA and ERA+ are not good stats for RP'ers who often only need to get one or two outs in an inning they enter.

His .723 OPS against and 1.26 WHIP are far from bad, but not very good either.

Career .693 is not bad at all.

He is what he is, a good 7th/8th man in the pen.

[drewski6]

5 minutes ago, notin said:

Is an expresso just a faster version of an espresso?

tomato on the basis of low hanging fruit.  Weve all heard the espresso vs expresso jokes.  

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, notin said:

Weissert’s ERA is nice but his HR/9 is pretty ugly…

That is his kryptonite.

[JoeBrady]

15 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

ERA and ERA+ are not good stats for RP'ers who often only need to get one or two outs in an inning they enter.

His .723 OPS against and 1.26 WHIP are far from bad, but not very good either.

Career .693 is not bad at all.

OPS (& FIP) is a better measure for an RP in the short-term, but career numbers usually reflect OPS over the long run.

[moonslav59]

5 minutes ago, JoeBrady said:

OPS (& FIP) is a better measure for an RP in the short-term, but career numbers usually reflect OPS over the long run.

Agreed. Even old fashioned WHIP is better.

[JoeBrady]

2 hours ago, notin said:

Weissert’s ERA is nice but his HR/9 is pretty ugly…

His FB% is at 32.6%.  That's dangerous.

[JoeBrady]

1 minute ago, moonslav59 said:

Agreed. Even old fashioned WHIP is better.

Whip doesn't account for FB/GB differentials.  Weissert's WHIP is fine.  It's the FB% that is killing him.

[drewski6]

1 minute ago, JoeBrady said:

Whip doesn't account for FB/GB differentials.  Weissert's WHIP is fine.  It's the FB% that is killing him.

certainly an issue for a sinkerball primary pitcher.

[drewski6]

"I use my sinker to get fly ball outs" doesnt sound like a great strategy.

[drewski6]

hes good for what he is.  hes like a criswell.  cant all be electric.