Red Sox sign Ranger Suarez. 5 years $130 Million

[notin]

2 hours ago, Old Red said:

My favorite comment was that Brez played GO FISH when others played HOLD EM.

Wasn’t that your comment?

[notin]

3 minutes ago, UtahSox said:

At least you’re admitting his plan never ever turns out. The fact you think our current roster, and options are his Plan B is funny because I believe we are probably on plan F. And if you dissect the transactions desperation definitely sets in.

I don’t agree with any of this.  Ranger Suarez was nobody’s Plan C, let alone Plan F.

I don’t see this desperation.  In fact, I’m not sure why youre decrying desperation when you clearly want it. For example:

Scenario 1:

Boras: Thanks for the offer.  But, surprise, surprise, we have another larger one, so you need to give us more money.

Breslow: Oh my God!! No!! Of course I will capitulate to all your demands!!!

Scenario 2:

Boras: Thanks for the offer.  But, surprise, surprise, we have another larger one, so you need to give us more money.

Breslow: I’ve seen this show before.  You have my offer. If it’s not enough, then take your other deal and I’ll sign someone else.

 

Which of those scenarios screams “desperation”?

[drewski6]

11 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

It's irrational to think Cora is finalizing any deals for the FO right now. 

I think Cora is probably looped in/asked to provide consult at some point in the process but I agree with you.

My point is not that Cora is finalizing deals currently, my point is that I want him to be or I want him to hire a GM if he wishes - but I want Cora above Breslow at this point.

The tough part is they (my opinion) shouldnt have given Breslow the CBO title, he wasnt qualified for it. Should have just given him GM title, because then you can make Cora CBO and it would disguise Breslows demotion.

If you have a VP and no SVP, and then you insert an SVP above the VP, that is very much a demotion, but its not as embarrassing as the VP getting his title downgraded to director.

I dont know how you could insert Cora above Breslow for baseball operations when Breslow is Chief of baseball operations - without messing with Breslows title.  Maybe principal of baseball operations? Maybe COO

COO of organization probably above CEO of baseball operations, even if it doesnt appear that way, so maybe thats how you do it.

But I want to demote Breslow, and whether or not he stays in a role where hes now reporting to Cora (not the other way around) is up to Cora first and Breslow second.

Cora can manage or hire a manager game level, dont really care.  Cora can fire breslow or leave him as a member of his front office team, dont really care. But I want Cora as head honcho, and if he likes breslow wants to keep breslow and breslow is fine with inserting cora above him, maybe you can do it in a way in which breslow keeps his title - because I dont want to go out of my way to embarrass him, thats not the point.  The point is I want Cora driving the bus. Bres can navigate if Cora wants. And Im not looking to strip all responsibility from Breslow either.

[drewski6]

11 minutes ago, notin said:

I don’t agree with any of this.  Ranger Suarez was nobody’s Plan C, let alone Plan F.

I don’t see this desperation.  In fact, I’m not sure why youre decrying desperation when you clearly want it. For example:

Scenario 1:

Boras: Thanks for the offer.  But, surprise, surprise, we have another larger one, so you need to give us more money.

Breslow: Oh my God!! No!! Of course I will capitulate to all your demands!!!

Scenario 2:

Boras: Thanks for the offer.  But, surprise, surprise, we have another larger one, so you need to give us more money.

Breslow: I’ve seen this show before.  You have my offer. If it’s not enough, then take your other deal and I’ll sign someone else.

 

Which of those scenarios screams “desperation”?

Scenario 2:

Boras: Thanks for the offer.  But, surprise, surprise, we have another larger one, so you need to give us more money.

Breslow: I’ve seen this show before.  And I dont trust that this other offer exists and Im not going to bid against myself  You have my offer. If it’s not enough, then take your other deal and I’ll sign someone else. 


 

[Randy Red Sox]

On 1/27/2026 at 7:07 PM, drewski6 said:

See, this guy gets it

Breslow is NOT a stiff. He has done a very good job building up the pitching depth both at the Major league level also on the farm.  This has been lacking for years. His attempt to add a quality 2B or 3B has been hampered by JH and his budget. Mayer can handle either 2B or 3B.

[mvp 78]

20 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

But I want to demote Breslow, and whether or not he stays in a role where hes now reporting to Cora (not the other way around) is up to Cora first and Breslow second.

 

[mvp 78]

8 minutes ago, Randy Red Sox said:

Breslow is NOT a stiff. He has done a very good job building up the pitching depth both at the Major league level also on the farm.  This has been lacking for years. His attempt to add a quality 2B or 3B has been hampered by JH and his budget. Mayer can handle either 2B or 3B.

Please don't simply handwave away Breslow's inability to obtain a 2b or 3b due to budget constraints. That's demeaning.

[notin]

23 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

Scenario 2:

Boras: Thanks for the offer.  But, surprise, surprise, we have another larger one, so you need to give us more money.

Breslow: I’ve seen this show before.  And I dont trust that this other offer exists and Im not going to bid against myself  You have my offer. If it’s not enough, then take your other deal and I’ll sign someone else. 


 

Whatever words you like.  Which one screams of desperation?  The one you rewrote without changing the meaning? Or the one blatantly written to epitomize desperation?

Not sure why bidding against himself is supposed to be a good thing.  It’s a frequent message board accusation that is rarely used positively.  I’ve never once said “Thank God he bid against himself.”

Well, now I have.  Thats one more absolute claim I can no longer make honestly…

[drewski6]

1 minute ago, notin said:

Whatever words you like.  Which one screams of desperation?  The one you rewrote without changing the meaning? Or the one blatantly written to epitomize desperation?

Not sure why bidding against himself is supposed to be a good thing.  It’s a frequent message board accusation that is rarely used positively.  I’ve never once said “Thank God he bid against himself.”

Well, now I have.  Thats one more absolute claim I can no longer make honestly…

I didnt use the word desperation (I dont think) so Im not sure why Im being asked to make a case that he was desperate.  Apologies if I said that and do not remember.

If anything , I think Breslow needs to be more desperate going forward.  Try a little harder to sign a bat.  Especially one like Bregman that fits on multiple levels (offense, defense, position, helps younger players, chemistry, PR). You (Notin) wanted Bregman back.

I dont look at the cubs/breg contract and go "oh boy am I glad that we didnt give Bregman that".  

Im not saying Breslow should bid against himself.  Im saying that he overestimated the strength of his standing offer.  "Im not going to bid against myself" - to me, implies "I already have the top offer on the table", and I think that if hes super confident that 165m, heavy heavy deferred, without willing to include a NTC (and knowing that was a big negative against his offer)....To think the 165m heavy deferred offer being dragged down by refusal to include NTC - to think thats the highest offer and be sooo confident in that when you saw ALonso and Schwarbers contracts .....

....I think he looks foolish, honestly. I think he should have known that his offer was quite unlikely to be the highest offer on the table. I knew it.

He might still get a Paredes/Marte/Geno, we'll see, I bet he gets someone and we'll see if the team hits enough to contend next year.  Im also aware that roster building doesnt stop. Im open to someone like KC breaking out with the bat or an in season acquisition.  But I think Breslow messed up (my opinion) and burned some rope.  How much he has left - I cant speculate on.

 

[notin]

3 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

I didnt use the word desperation (I dont think) so Im not sure why Im being asked to make a case that he was desperate.  Apologies if I said that and do not remember.

If anything , I think Breslow needs to be more desperate going forward.  Try a little harder to sign a bat.  Especially one like Bregman that fits on multiple levels (offense, defense, position, helps younger players, chemistry, PR). You (Notin) wanted Bregman back.

I dont look at the cubs/breg contract and go "oh boy am I glad that we didnt give Bregman that".  

Im not saying Breslow should bid against himself.  Im saying that he overestimated the strength of his standing offer.  "Im not going to bid against myself" - to me, implies "I already have the top offer on the table", and I think that if hes super confident that 165m, heavy heavy deferred, without willing to include a NTC (and knowing that was a big negative against his offer)....To think the 165m heavy deferred offer being dragged down by refusal to include NTC - to think thats the highest offer and be sooo confident in that when you saw ALonso and Schwarbers contracts .....

....I think he looks foolish, honestly. I think he should have known that his offer was quite unlikely to be the highest offer on the table. I knew it.

He might still get a Paredes/Marte/Geno, we'll see, I bet he gets someone and we'll see if the team hits enough to contend next year.  Im also aware that roster building doesnt stop. Im open to someone like KC breaking out with the bat or an in season acquisition.  But I think Breslow messed up (my opinion) and burned some rope.  How much he has left - I cant speculate on.

 

The No Trade Clause strikes me as a silly dealbreaker.  The $165 million dollar debt already acts as a limited NTC.  Does Bregman really think teams were going to be clamoring to pay him $35mill a year through age 38? 
 

Plus his insistence on one arguably shows a lack of confidence.  I mean, didnt her think he can make us competitors every year?  Why is he so concerned about the Sox going into sell mode?

[moonslav59]

4 hours ago, drewski6 said:

The offer to Alonso was pathetic , the offer to Bregman was not as strong as Breslow thought it was, it got beat thrice (less total money than cubs offer, more deferred than cubs offer, wouldnt include NTC)

Also - right now our payroll is higher, so there was a green light to add money.   To be so off on Alonso, and not really have a competitve bid to Bregman is bad, and it doesnt seem like it was JH as much as previous years.  It sounds like Breslow being ego, stiff.  

I honestly all JH is saying is : if you gonna spend, make sure you win. And this was scary to Bloom, and Breslow is trying but cant get out of his own way

The GM is not always the scapegoat.  I think most people act like there is like an evil presence over the entire organiztion cast by JH because people like a good conspiracy theory.  But we have so many people reporting that no, breslow called bregmans offer a bluff was wrong. Egg meet face.

Not only do I think JH was not behind the mess up, I also think JH is pissed

Do it JH, fire the stiff

So, is it JH or Brez, because you sure made it sound like Brez had the capability to top all 3 aspects of the Cub offer, and that is why he "botched it."

I'm not claiming he didn't botch it. I'm claiming that not knowing what the limits put on him were, I'm holding back assigning blame for coming up short.

More importantly to me, I'd rather have Ranger Suarez even at the Bregman offer level, so I'm not losing sleep over losing Bregman. 

I am losing sleep over the big hole we have in the infield, while the two logjam we have on the roster remain a tangled overabundance of talent that will force some to be on the bench or misused off position.

If you you were to find out, and by you I mean everybody that thinks it was Brez who let Breggie get away, that the NTC was non negotiable, the differed money was need for tax purposes and was not negotiable and or the dollar amount offered was the highest amount he was permitted to go, would you still blame Brez for it?

These are not some half-baked constructions on my behalf. These were the all accounts issues that led to the Cubs winning the negotiations.

Yes, it sucks watching us lose every one of these things, but that anger does not change facts, and we don't know all the facts.

 

[notin]

38 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Please don't simply handwave away Breslow's inability to obtain a 2b or 3b due to budget constraints. That's demeaning.

It’s still January.

While the Sox might not do much snd might even be comfortable with Hamilton/Romy, a lot can happen.  Not sure if they’re simply waiting for Houck to be eligible for the 60 day IL or for other teams to have more pitching needs or whatever else.

Maybe the promote Arias.  Maybe they make a deal.  Maybe Kristian Campbell jumps back in the picture.

I know that last one seems like a long shot among long shots, but once I saw Denise Richards play a nuclear physicist named Dr. Christmas Jones, I stopped eliminating possibilities on the basis of stupidity…

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, UtahSox said:

Moon, you sound like my mother-in-law making excuses for her son’s bad decisions. It’s always someone else’s fault—trauma from 30 years ago, friends who are doctors or finance bros influencing him to make bad decisions but it’s not his fault. At some point, if you’re Craig Breslow and you hold the job, you’re responsible for what you say and what you do. These ownership constraints, bad luck etc just don’t land anymore. 

Yes, we don’t know the exact conversations between John Henry and Breslow. But we do know what Breslow has said publicly. And I’d imagine that shiny Yale diploma on his wall taught him at least one basic lesson: don’t say things to the media unless you’re confident you can back them up. Or, at minimum, check with ownership before you do.

So when he tells us “we’ll be big players at the trade deadline” and we end up with some curly red-haired guy who absolutely can’t pitch, that’s not bad luck. That’s a failure of expectation-setting. There is accountability there. <Strike 1>

Then came the end-of-season comments, which—credit where it’s due—were actually spot on: We need a middle-of-the-order bat and a legitimate No. 2 starter.

That messaging strongly suggested a plan: maybe keeping Bregman, maybe adding a Pete Alonso–type bat, and pairing that with a real top-end arm. Instead, he finds a “good deal” with the Cardinals that kind of fills those needs if you squint hard enough. And by “fills,” I mean only with a generous amount of imagination. <strike two.>

Then we get to the Bregman fiasco—which has been discussed plenty—but there’s another angle that matters. It looks increasingly like Framber Valdez might have been available on a short, two-year type deal. The speed with which Breslow pivoted after the Bregman situation collapsed felt desperate, not calculated. And while Ranger Suárez is a great addition, Framber Valdez by most accounts is the better pitcher. It looks like he could have been had on a 2 yr deal…. I’ll add I like Suárez, and if we get to postseason he is virtually unhittable —which should be a blast to watch when it happens. But it looks like desperation to me. 

So now here we sit. Breslow still has options. He can:

1. Spend a little more money without mortgaging the future, bring in Suarez on a short one- or two-year deal.

2. Or make a trade that hurts a bit, but actually lands a real difference-maker at second or third base

This team is not boxed in. This team has options. 

But based on what he himself has told the media, it’s hard not to conclude that his plans and negotiation tactics simply aren’t working. Making excuses for him at this point is asinine. Does John Henry kind of suck as an owner these days? Yes. Could Henry be placing real constraints on Breslow behind the scenes? Also yes.

But Breslow is still the one going in front of microphones, telling fans what’s going to happen—and then repeatedly falling astronomically short. That part is not on ownership. That’s on competence, execution, and the ability to sell Fenway, which should be one of the easier jobs in baseball. Literally a tie goes to the Red Sox every time.

please don’t take one sentence out of this entire admitted the way too long diatribe, and dissect it, take the opinion on the whole. Which is yes we do not have Breslow and JH phone conversations/text messages,but there is a pattern of incompetence that has grown at a really fast rate over the last 14 months.

For the last time, I don't have a position and am not defending anything except maybe the truth, but since the truth is unknown, I have no position on who botched what.

If someone said Brez had nothing to do with losing out on Bregman, I'd question that just as much.

Blaming anyone before all the facts are known is wrong in my book. That being said, I do think if the "by all accounts" reports are true, Brez did look comical or "funny" as I have stated before. He called a bluff and lost, perhaps. That's kinda funny in poker, but not so funny, if it's your money lost.

It's not unreasonable to think Brez thought BorA$$ was bluffing, but at the same time had limits that disallowed movement on 1, 2 or all 3 of the areas the Cubs beat his offer. To claim Brez is to blame is to believe he could have moved on enough of those areas to equal or top the Cubs offer and get Breggie to sign. Maybe his buffoonery did botch even that idea, as he pissed Breggie off by enough to sign with the Cubs, anyway. That is possible, too.

How does anyone know the facts needed to determine if Brez had the capabilities to up the offer in just enough areas and by just enough to get Breggie to BOS? Show me those facts and I'll be driving the Bumbling Brez Botched it wagon.

Now, if someone wants to argue that had he not traded for and paid over $20M each for Gray and Contreras, he'd have had enough resources to offer more money and less deferred money to Bregman, you'd have a point to be debated. I might even agree with that, but the NTC issue would still be an unknown aspect on deciding who is to blame, if Breggie said no based on just that.

See it the way you want. I don't know if what Brez did and didn't do was all his fault. It very well could be. I agree he is a poor communicator, but an offer is an offer, and usually the words aren't what gets a guy to sign or not. Our offer fell short in 3 key areas. That seems factual. It seems those areas mattered to Breggie & BorA$$. If Brez had the power to solve the needed issues, then yes, it's on him. (And, I'd still say we grossly overpaid, and I'd rather have Ranger.)

[moonslav59]

25 minutes ago, notin said:

 Why is he so concerned about the Sox going into sell mode?

One word:

Devers

[mvp 78]

45 minutes ago, notin said:

The No Trade Clause strikes me as a silly dealbreaker.  The $165 million dollar debt already acts as a limited NTC.  Does Bregman really think teams were going to be clamoring to pay him $35mill a year through age 38? 
 

Plus his insistence on one arguably shows a lack of confidence.  I mean, didnt her think he can make us competitors every year?  Why is he so concerned about the Sox going into sell mode?

The risk to Bregman is the Sox eat half the contract and trade him with two years left or something similar. He gets his money, but has to upend his life again. 

Sox putting that line in the sand doesn't make much sense if others around the league are providing them. Why disadvantage yourself? 

[mvp 78]

41 minutes ago, notin said:

It’s still January.

While the Sox might not do much snd might even be comfortable with Hamilton/Romy, a lot can happen.  Not sure if they’re simply waiting for Houck to be eligible for the 60 day IL or for other teams to have more pitching needs or whatever else.

Maybe the promote Arias.  Maybe they make a deal.  Maybe Kristian Campbell jumps back in the picture.

It's January 30th! 

Promote Arias? He didn't even OPS 700 in AA. What would promoting him further do? 

KC struggled to hit AAA pitching in '24 and is a terrible 2b. If he's in the picture, I don't think it looks good for 2026. The bottom half of the lineup would be KC/Marcelo/Narvaez/Rafaela. There's upside, but a low floor.

 

[mvp 78]

23 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

One word:

Devers

[drewski6]

57 minutes ago, notin said:

The No Trade Clause strikes me as a silly dealbreaker.  The $165 million dollar debt already acts as a limited NTC.  Does Bregman really think teams were going to be clamoring to pay him $35mill a year through age 38? 
 

Plus his insistence on one arguably shows a lack of confidence.  I mean, didnt her think he can make us competitors every year?  Why is he so concerned about the Sox going into sell mode?

If the cubs want him at 175 , deferred down to 155 in adjusted value....And he signs with the red sox at 165 deferred (remember considerably more than cubs deferment)....So thats prob adjusted down to like 135.....He just created a 40 trade value unit surplus for the sox regarding his contract vs what the cubs want him at.

Then yes, he is turning himself into a tradeable asset immediately.  If I was a free agent and you wont give me a NTC then im taking the highest offer without question.  Im not taking a discount to sign with you so you can trade me.

I agree its unlikely that the sox would ink him at a discount and flip him, it would smell terrible.  But I see why he wants to protect against this

[drewski6]

I would imagine that more often than not, if a GM/CBO is asking a player to leave money on the table, and the player agrees - theres a NTC.  I would speculate its almost assumed.

[UtahSox]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

For the last time, I don't have a position and am not defending anything except maybe the truth, but since the truth is unknown, I have no position on who botched what.

If someone said Brez had nothing to do with losing out on Bregman, I'd question that just as much.

Blaming anyone before all the facts are known is wrong in my book. That being said, I do think if the "by all accounts" reports are true, Brez did look comical or "funny" as I have stated before. He called a bluff and lost, perhaps. That's kinda funny in poker, but not so funny, if it's your money lost.

It's not unreasonable to think Brez thought BorA$$ was bluffing, but at the same time had limits that disallowed movement on 1, 2 or all 3 of the areas the Cubs beat his offer. To claim Brez is to blame is to believe he could have moved on enough of those areas to equal or top the Cubs offer and get Breggie to sign. Maybe his buffoonery did botch even that idea, as he pissed Breggie off by enough to sign with the Cubs, anyway. That is possible, too.

How does anyone know the facts needed to determine if Brez had the capabilities to up the offer in just enough areas and by just enough to get Breggie to BOS? Show me those facts and I'll be driving the Bumbling Brez Botched it wagon.

Now, if someone wants to argue that had he not traded for and paid over $20M each for Gray and Contreras, he'd have had enough resources to offer more money and less deferred money to Bregman, you'd have a point to be debated. I might even agree with that, but the NTC issue would still be an unknown aspect on deciding who is to blame, if Breggie said no based on just that.

See it the way you want. I don't know if what Brez did and didn't do was all his fault. It very well could be. I agree he is a poor communicator, but an offer is an offer, and usually the words aren't what gets a guy to sign or not. Our offer fell short in 3 key areas. That seems factual. It seems those areas mattered to Breggie & BorA$$. If Brez had the power to solve the needed issues, then yes, it's on him. (And, I'd still say we grossly overpaid, and I'd rather have Ranger.)

ok so since you can’t without a shadow of a doubt know who said no/ thought the other guy was bluffing you absolve him of most blame?

moving on…., 
I’d say the Ranger vs Bregman signing comparison is incomplete, IF it was the last move of 2026 season then I’d say AB is more valuable to this team based on other holes in roster.
 

IF we sign or trade for a serviceable OFFENSIVE 2nd/3rd baseman….. then I would agree with you Suarez > Bregman. I’m also not going to pretend to know what contract is going to be better in year 4 & 5. 
 

One thing I can say for certain I sure wish we could have handed Ranger the ball in game 2 vs Yankees last year. 

[drewski6]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

 

If you you were to find out, and by you I mean everybody that thinks it was Brez who let Breggie get away, that the NTC was non negotiable, the differed money was need for tax purposes and was not negotiable and or the dollar amount offered was the highest amount he was permitted to go, would you still blame Brez for it?

 

 

I think the chances of that are quite low because I believe the reporting is that it was Breslow who believed that his contract was tops and "didnt want to bid against himself"

What you are describing is more of a "RS hit their limit" , which to me isnt the same.

Put another way - I think that if Breslow believed that he would have had to match the cubs offer he would have and I think he would have had the green light to because Im working from a belief that we didnt up our offer because we didnt think we would have to (as opposed to being like we dont think theres value if we go any further north)

So what you are describing isnt really on my radar as a high probability, but certainly, if Breslow cannot offer a NTC no matter what and that was always a dealbreaker , then sure - not breslows fault.

But I find it all to be much less likely than simply Breslow thought Bregman would take the offer on the table and thought he had it in the bag until the shock of the cubs agreement.  

If Im willing to pay $200 for something at a store and I get there and its on sale for $150, Im not going to pay more because I dont have to.  This doesnt mean I was unwilling to spend the $200.  I think the sox should have and would have matched the offer had they thought they had to, but didnt think they had to.

[drewski6]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

One word:

Devers

Good point here

[mvp 78]

On 1/14/2026 at 3:56 PM, mvp 78 said:

Then I guess the Sox haven't committed to spending! 

Time to crow some more! 

RIP Catherine O'Hara

[drewski6]

1 hour ago, notin said:

It’s still January.

While the Sox might not do much snd might even be comfortable with Hamilton/Romy, a lot can happen.  Not sure if they’re simply waiting for Houck to be eligible for the 60 day IL or for other teams to have more pitching needs or whatever else.

Maybe the promote Arias.  Maybe they make a deal.  Maybe Kristian Campbell jumps back in the picture.

I know that last one seems like a long shot among long shots, but once I saw Denise Richards play a nuclear physicist named Dr. Christmas Jones, I stopped eliminating possibilities on the basis of stupidity…

Trivia: who performed the main theme/song in this movie? I had it as a question on weds and whiffed and it haunts me (even though we won). I should have gotten it because I like the band.

[drewski6]

46 minutes ago, UtahSox said:

ok so since you can’t without a shadow of a doubt know who said no/ thought the other guy was bluffing you absolve him of most blame?

moving on…., 
I’d say the Ranger vs Bregman signing comparison is incomplete, IF it was the last move of 2026 season then I’d say AB is more valuable to this team based on other holes in roster.
 

IF we sign or trade for a serviceable OFFENSIVE 2nd/3rd baseman….. then I would agree with you Suarez > Bregman. I’m also not going to pretend to know what contract is going to be better in year 4 & 5. 
 

One thing I can say for certain I sure wish we could have handed Ranger the ball in game 2 vs Yankees last year. 

I dont blame Bello at all, I didnt agree with the quick hook. He had only given up a 2 run homer to a hot Ben Rice. We scored 2.3 runs/game that series. I dont blame the SP.  And not only do I think it was NOT the SP that did us in last year, but I think that the SP was going to get better this year even without bringing in any of Gray/Ranger/Oviedo. I think Kutter coming back and Im expecting Tolle to be a rookie of the year contestant.

I think that a staff of:

Crochet
Crawford
Tolle
Bello
Early
Sandoval
Harrison

Is already PLENTY good enough.  I think its already like the second or third best in teh AL.

I dont think we needed a single starter.

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, UtahSox said:

ok so since you can’t without a shadow of a doubt know who said no/ thought the other guy was bluffing you absolve him of most blame?

moving on…., 
I’d say the Ranger vs Bregman signing comparison is incomplete, IF it was the last move of 2026 season then I’d say AB is more valuable to this team based on other holes in roster.
 

IF we sign or trade for a serviceable OFFENSIVE 2nd/3rd baseman….. then I would agree with you Suarez > Bregman. I’m also not going to pretend to know what contract is going to be better in year 4 & 5. 
 

One thing I can say for certain I sure wish we could have handed Ranger the ball in game 2 vs Yankees last year. 

1. I would not call misjudging if it was a bluff or not a "botch." It happens all the time.

2. More importantly, my main point is that the possible limits placed on Brez concerning NTC, deferments and top dollar offer are unknown, so getting Breggiie might have been impossible.

This doesn't change the narrative, to you?

Again, maybe Brez botched it. Maybe the real botch was spening on Contreras or Gray, instead of Breggie. IMO, spending on Ranger was a better idea, so I don't count that as a possible "botch."

[UtahSox]

1 hour ago, drewski6 said:

I dont blame Bello at all, I didnt agree with the quick hook. He had only given up a 2 run homer to a hot Ben Rice. We scored 2.3 runs/game that series. I dont blame the SP.  And not only do I think it was NOT the SP that did us in last year, but I think that the SP was going to get better this year even without bringing in any of Gray/Ranger/Oviedo. I think Kutter coming back and Im expecting Tolle to be a rookie of the year contestant.

I think that a staff of:

Crochet
Crawford
Tolle
Bello
Early
Sandoval
Harrison

Is already PLENTY good enough.  I think its already like the second or third best in teh AL.

I dont think we needed a single starter.

I do disagree about Bello hook in game 2, he was getting hit hard. Felt like it was teetering.

Don’t disagree with this pitching staff being deep BEFORE adding Gray and Suarez…… but also Ranger Suarez postseason performances have been stuff of legend. I’m freaking excited for that contingency plan if we end up in wild card and you have to face Crochet/ Suarez on back to back nights. 
 

*IF ANY of Kutter/Tolle/ Oviedo/ Early take a leap forward….. this could be insane 

[drewski6]

12 minutes ago, UtahSox said:

I do disagree about Bello hook in game 2, he was getting hit hard. Felt like it was teetering.

Don’t disagree with this pitching staff being deep BEFORE adding Gray and Suarez…… but also Ranger Suarez postseason performances have been stuff of legend. I’m freaking excited for that contingency plan if we end up in wild card and you have to face Crochet/ Suarez on back to back nights. 
 

*IF ANY of Kutter/Tolle/ Oviedo/ Early take a leap forward….. this could be insane 

I like Suarez too.  I just hope we keep looking for offense both internally (KC could take a leap) AND externally, but Im sure we will.  

[Old Red]

3 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

For the last time, I don't have a position and am not defending anything except maybe the truth, but since the truth is unknown, I have no position on who botched what.

If someone said Brez had nothing to do with losing out on Bregman, I'd question that just as much.

Blaming anyone before all the facts are known is wrong in my book. That being said, I do think if the "by all accounts" reports are true, Brez did look comical or "funny" as I have stated before. He called a bluff and lost, perhaps. That's kinda funny in poker, but not so funny, if it's your money lost.

It's not unreasonable to think Brez thought BorA$$ was bluffing, but at the same time had limits that disallowed movement on 1, 2 or all 3 of the areas the Cubs beat his offer. To claim Brez is to blame is to believe he could have moved on enough of those areas to equal or top the Cubs offer and get Breggie to sign. Maybe his buffoonery did botch even that idea, as he pissed Breggie off by enough to sign with the Cubs, anyway. That is possible, too.

How does anyone know the facts needed to determine if Brez had the capabilities to up the offer in just enough areas and by just enough to get Breggie to BOS? Show me those facts and I'll be driving the Bumbling Brez Botched it wagon.

Now, if someone wants to argue that had he not traded for and paid over $20M each for Gray and Contreras, he'd have had enough resources to offer more money and less deferred money to Bregman, you'd have a point to be debated. I might even agree with that, but the NTC issue would still be an unknown aspect on deciding who is to blame, if Breggie said no based on just that.

See it the way you want. I don't know if what Brez did and didn't do was all his fault. It very well could be. I agree he is a poor communicator, but an offer is an offer, and usually the words aren't what gets a guy to sign or not. Our offer fell short in 3 key areas. That seems factual. It seems those areas mattered to Breggie & BorA$$. If Brez had the power to solve the needed issues, then yes, it's on him. (And, I'd still say we grossly overpaid, and I'd rather have Ranger.)

There is NO last time with you, you do have a position, and you are defending something, and you are the only one who doesn’t see it.🙈🤭🤮

[Old Red]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

1. I would not call misjudging if it was a bluff or not a "botch." It happens all the time.

2. More importantly, my main point is that the possible limits placed on Brez concerning NTC, deferments and top dollar offer are unknown, so getting Breggiie might have been impossible.

This doesn't change the narrative, to you?

Again, maybe Brez botched it. Maybe the real botch was spening on Contreras or Gray, instead of Breggie. IMO, spending on Ranger was a better idea, so I don't count that as a possible "botch."

How many times can you fit the word BOTCH in a post, which is a word you are so hung up on. I’ve heard all kinds of words used describing the Bregman situation not only on here, but other venues, and actually talking to people. Botched, BUNGLED, F——- up, s*** Show, messed up, Butchered, Misread The Room, and my favorite played GO FISH just to name a few, and what is the common denominator associated with all of these yes it’s #12 Brez. That’s what so many other people are saying, or have said, and you don’t agree with them, and you don’t have to, but they don’t agree with you, and they don’t have to either. That’s how it works like it, or not. You can say you are not defending till the cows come home, but it’s not going to change a thing. Brez had a solid year to put something together, and it failed, and that it failed good, or bad is a FACT.👋