Red Sox sign Ranger Suarez. 5 years $130 Million

[drewski6]

46 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

It makes total sense if they believe there was no bigger offer, and again, if thinking it was a bluff and it wasn't is a "botch," then I'm not sure I'd use that word in that context.

I agree, the NTC is meaningless if we were never going to step up our offer. (We don't know if it was JH's limit or Brez's refusal to go higher on that aspect.)

I like this, and I obviously agree when you say that you think Breslow had considered the cubs offer a bluff. I think if thats true (it is because like you said it makes sense , plus reputable names have said it) but I think that if true that its much more likely to be Breslow drawing the line because JH very likely isnt involved to the extent of knowing the offers on the table and which one is the highest and the market values. 

There obviously may be other people involved as well.

[drewski6]

I think Breslow botched it all the way, and Im using that word.  Ithink if anything Bres was saying we dont worry guys (Fenway Sports Group) we dont need to go up , other offer - its a bluff. I think he should be feeling some hot water no doubt.

[drewski6]

Cora closes the deal and gets us our third baseman, just saying.  And Bregman is like .800+ OPS , good D, and makes Anthony better too (at least thats what Anthony thinks/said)

Pretty big mess up even though the silver lining is that the contract would have certainly been uncomfortable and now we dont have that discomfort.  But we always intended to get Bregman. Breslow botched it.

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, drewski6 said:

I like this, and I obviously agree when you say that you think Breslow had considered the cubs offer a bluff. I think if thats true (it is because like you said it makes sense , plus reputable names have said it) but I think that if true that its much more likely to be Breslow drawing the line because JH very likely isnt involved to the extent of knowing the offers on the table and which one is the highest and the market values. 

There obviously may be other people involved as well.

I can see JH giving Brez some flex or maybe a pretty set budget, especially AAV, and Brez can move around the pieces to make it work, as in he could have signed Breggie had he not paid so much for Gray or Contreras, but I can certainly see JH drawing the line at the third tier, and the Breggie deal, with no deferrals puts us dangerously close to that "limit."

My whole position is basically having no position, because we just don't know.

Even if the whole "all accounts" breakdown of how that talks went down is 100% true, nto knowing what the budget limit was, who demanded a contract without a NTC and how much the deferrals were a JH demand or a Brez preference. 

I can see that whole deferral thing as being all about the AAV and the tax budget, and that is a hint, to me, that Brez has some sort of tax budget firm limit. I could be wrong, but I'm not pretending it is a fact, so I just keep  saying, we don't really know enough to think Breggie is not hear because of how Brez handled the talks.

He may have been a 100% buffoon but still never had a chance at getting a signature. Can you agree that is at least possible?

To totally discount any chance of this is reckless, IMO.

[drewski6]

17 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I can see JH giving Brez some flex or maybe a pretty set budget, especially AAV, and Brez can move around the pieces to make it work, as in he could have signed Breggie had he not paid so much for Gray or Contreras, but I can certainly see JH drawing the line at the third tier, and the Breggie deal, with no deferrals puts us dangerously close to that "limit."

My whole position is basically having no position, because we just don't know.

Even if the whole "all accounts" breakdown of how that talks went down is 100% true, nto knowing what the budget limit was, who demanded a contract without a NTC and how much the deferrals were a JH demand or a Brez preference. 

I can see that whole deferral thing as being all about the AAV and the tax budget, and that is a hint, to me, that Brez has some sort of tax budget firm limit. I could be wrong, but I'm not pretending it is a fact, so I just keep  saying, we don't really know enough to think Breggie is not hear because of how Brez handled the talks.

He may have been a 100% buffoon but still never had a chance at getting a signature. Can you agree that is at least possible?

I want to get there, forgive me, I cant get there. I cant see this going down in any other way than a pure Breslow botch.

Breslow is the chief baseball officer , not the GM , and I doubt JH is involved much at all. He's more likely to be a recluse.  I think when Breslow said "organizational policy" , I think it was becasue he doesnt like giving no trade clauses and he didnt think he had to

I think literally everything stems from Breslow not knowing the market for bats and thats why our offer for alonso was hilarious and our offer for bregman wasnt nearly as strong as breslow thought it was.

I dont get how hes so far off, especially after seeing the Schwarber and Alonso contracts - but he very much appears to be.

I think Bregman wanted to come back, everybody wanted him back, he was willing to leave dollars on the table, and Breslow wanted him back also but Breslow was too confident in his offer on the table 

And I dont think the cubs contract is an overpay at all.

[drewski6]

The more I think about it, the more I realize that for me personally , Im there

Breslow needs to go, Alex Cora 4 prez

[moonslav59]

19 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

I want to get there, forgive me, I cant get there. I cant see this going down in any other way than a pure Breslow botch.

Breslow is the chief baseball officer , not the GM , and I doubt JH is involved much at all. He's more likely to be a recluse.  I think when Breslow said "organizational policy" , I think it was becasue he doesnt like giving no trade clauses and he didnt think he had to

I think literally everything stems from Breslow not knowing the market for bats and thats why our offer for alonso was hilarious and our offer for bregman wasnt nearly as strong as breslow thought it was.

I dont get how hes so far off, especially after seeing the Schwarber and Alonso contracts - but he very much appears to be.

I think Bregman wanted to come back, everybody wanted him back, he was willing to leave dollars on the table, and Breslow wanted him back also but Breslow was too confident in his offer on the table 

And I dont think the cubs contract is an overpay at all.

If you can't even say, if that was the highest he could go, or think it's possible he could never offer a NTC, then you and I have different criteria for making up our minds and placing what sounds like unconditional blame on someone.

[Duran Is The Man]

40 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

Cora closes the deal and gets us our third baseman, just saying.  And Bregman is like .800+ OPS , good D, and makes Anthony better too (at least thats what Anthony thinks/said)

Pretty big mess up even though the silver lining is that the contract would have certainly been uncomfortable and now we dont have that discomfort.  But we always intended to get Bregman. Breslow botched it.

i think Bregman really wanted to stay. i think Cora really wanted him to stay. and i think Breslow f***ed it up. 

[JoeBrady]

8 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

I'm sorry that drewski was a dingus to you. Please, can we move on from this discussion? 

I'm done.  In fact, so long as Drew doesn't bother to reference me, I have absolutely no reason to reference him.

[JoeBrady]

5 hours ago, Old Red said:

One on here thinks the Red Sox didn’t really want to sign Bregman. IDK for sure.

Anything is possible.  When Bay was leaving, I was 100% convinced that the RS were going to offer him just enough to look competitive, but not enough for him to sign.  And I say that as a big Bay fan.

[moonslav59]

26 minutes ago, Duran Is The Man said:

i think Bregman really wanted to stay. i think Cora really wanted him to stay. and i think Breslow f***ed it up. 

Is it possible they both wanted him to stay, and the offer was the best they could do?

The part that makes me think it's possible is that there were 3 areas where maybe just MAYBE one limit placed on Brez might have been enough to keep the deal from happening.

The money

The NTC

The deferred money (or AAV)

[Duran Is The Man]

43 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Is it possible they both wanted him to stay, and the offer was the best they could do?

The part that makes me think it's possible is that there were 3 areas where maybe just MAYBE one limit placed on Brez might have been enough to keep the deal from happening.

The money

The NTC

The deferred money (or AAV)

i think Breslow was inflexible, ergo, stiff. it wouldn't be that big a deal to me, but not signing him after losing Raffy for signing him in the first place is what sucks. and that wouldn't be so bad if they signed someone to replace him/Devers. so now, besides a black hole at second, we also have one at third. i wish they still had the both of them, but hey...what a shitshow.

[moonslav59]

9 minutes ago, Duran Is The Man said:

i think Breslow was inflexible, ergo, stiff. it wouldn't be that big a deal to me, but not signing him after losing Raffy for signing him in the first place is what sucks. and that wouldn't be so bad if they signed someone to replace him/Devers. so now, besides a black hole at second, we also have one at third. i wish they still had the both of them, but hey...what a shitshow.

I feel the same way, but my question remains unanswered. I feel like the anger is causing us to get mad at someone, and the GM is always the scapegoat.

IMO, we should have signed Alonso, but the Breggie leadership thing had real value.

To me, Breggie was not an improvement, and he's getting older, but he sure is better than DHam at 2B.

[drewski6]

9 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

I feel the same way, but my question remains unanswered. I feel like the anger is causing us to get mad at someone, and the GM is always the scapegoat.

IMO, we should have signed Alonso, but the Breggie leadership thing had real value.

To me, Breggie was not an improvement, and he's getting older, but he sure is better than DHam at 2B.

The offer to Alonso was pathetic , the offer to Bregman was not as strong as Breslow thought it was, it got beat thrice (less total money than cubs offer, more deferred than cubs offer, wouldnt include NTC)

Also - right now our payroll is higher, so there was a green light to add money.   To be so off on Alonso, and not really have a competitve bid to Bregman is bad, and it doesnt seem like it was JH as much as previous years.  It sounds like Breslow being ego, stiff.  

I honestly all JH is saying is : if you gonna spend, make sure you win. And this was scary to Bloom, and Breslow is trying but cant get out of his own way

The GM is not always the scapegoat.  I think most people act like there is like an evil presence over the entire organiztion cast by JH because people like a good conspiracy theory.  But we have so many people reporting that no, breslow called bregmans offer a bluff was wrong. Egg meet face.

Not only do I think JH was not behind the mess up, I also think JH is pissed

Do it JH, fire the stiff

[drewski6]

Better either go get some bats (multiple) or win a lot 2-1 games.  One thing Breslow has going for him is that outside of Toronto, NYY, Seattle , the AL is weak so could get into the playoffs with this flawed team.

[Old Red]

4 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

The offer to Alonso was pathetic , the offer to Bregman was not as strong as Breslow thought it was, it got beat thrice (less total money than cubs offer, more deferred than cubs offer, wouldnt include NTC)

Also - right now our payroll is higher, so there was a green light to add money.   To be so off on Alonso, and not really have a competitve bid to Bregman is bad, and it doesnt seem like it was JH as much as previous years.  It sounds like Breslow being ego, stiff.  

I honestly all JH is saying is : if you gonna spend, make sure you win. And this was scary to Bloom, and Breslow is trying but cant get out of his own way

The GM is not always the scapegoat.  I think most people act like there is like an evil presence over the entire organiztion cast by JH because people like a good conspiracy theory.  But we have so many people reporting that no, breslow called bregmans offer a bluff was wrong. Egg meet face.

Not only do I think JH was not behind the mess up, I also think JH is pissed

Do it JH, fire the stiff

My favorite comment was that Brez played GO FISH when others played HOLD EM.

[drewski6]

1 hour ago, Old Red said:

My favorite comment was that Brez played GO FISH when others played HOLD EM.

"Look , I tried to help him. I even wrote a song about it, gotta know when to hold em vs fold em.  Problem is, he didnt even know what game he was playing, and even I cant help that" - Kenny Rogers

..........

I have it on good authority that Breslows wife hasnt gotten a good night sleep in a week because Breslow keeps waking up in the middle of the night , sitting up, and yelling "you're bluffing" 

They are considering intervention.

 

[mvp 78]

8 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

"Look , I tried to help him. I even wrote a song about it, gotta know when to hold em vs fold em.  Problem is, he didnt even know what game he was playing, and even I cant help that" - Kenny Rogers

..........

I have it on good authority that Breslows wife hasnt gotten a good night sleep in a week because Breslow keeps waking up in the middle of the night , sitting up, and yelling "you're bluffing" 

They are considering intervention.

 

You are very worried about other people's wives. I think you should talk to someone about that. 

[notin]

13 hours ago, drewski6 said:

Cora closes the deal and gets us our third baseman, just saying. 

Too many of your anti-Breslow posts live in the realm of speculation and shifting timelines.  And never acknowledge that the Sox at least successfully executed Plan B…

[drewski6]

7 minutes ago, notin said:

Too many of your anti-Breslow posts live in the realm of speculation and shifting timelines.  And never acknowledge that the Sox at least successfully executed Plan B…

Ill acknowledge a successful roster build when the team shows it can hit.

[mvp 78]

14 minutes ago, notin said:

Too many of your anti-Breslow posts live in the realm of speculation and shifting timelines.  And never acknowledge that the Sox at least successfully executed Plan B…

I think we are beyond Plan B, but there's no way Cora is closing any deal. That's just myth making. 

[drewski6]

35 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

You are very worried about other people's wives. I think you should talk to someone about that. 

HAHA, you say that as Im scrambling to pre-clean before my smoking hot cleaning lady gets here (who is married) because I dont want her to think Im gross.

Im trying to make the place the right about of gross, so she feels needed but not grossed out.

Of course, Im respectful and yes I enjoy chatting her up, but I wont try anythign for a few reasons (1. I respect her marriage, 2. I love my girl, 3. I dont want to lose her as a cleaning lady)

But I am at least a little worried what she thinks and shes someones wife, so thats another one.  I can also think of at least one more too (close female friend in bad marriage).

[drewski6]

4 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

I think we are beyond Plan B, but there's no way Cora is closing any deal. That's just myth making. 

Really, you think its irrational to believe that Cora would have landed Bregman?

[notin]

12 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

Really, you think its irrational to believe that Cora would have landed Bregman?

Well, it certainly is an unsupported hypothesis…

[notin]

15 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

Im trying to make the place the right about of gross, so she feels needed but not grossed out.

Of course, Im respectful and yes I enjoy chatting her up, but I wont try anythign for a few reasons (1. I respect her marriage, 2. I love my girl, 3. I dont want to lose her as a cleaning lady)

 

So you’re more worried about losing your cleaning lady than your girlfriend?  That seems a little… well, I mean.

Just how clean does she get stuff and does she mop floors?

[mvp 78]

23 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

Really, you think its irrational to believe that Cora would have landed Bregman?

It's irrational to think Cora is finalizing any deals for the FO right now. 

[UtahSox]

12 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

I feel the same way, but my question remains unanswered. I feel like the anger is causing us to get mad at someone, and the GM is always the scapegoat.

IMO, we should have signed Alonso, but the Breggie leadership thing had real value.

To me, Breggie was not an improvement, and he's getting older, but he sure is better than DHam at 2B.

Moon, you sound like my mother-in-law making excuses for her son’s bad decisions. It’s always someone else’s fault—trauma from 30 years ago, friends who are doctors or finance bros influencing him to make bad decisions but it’s not his fault. At some point, if you’re Craig Breslow and you hold the job, you’re responsible for what you say and what you do. These ownership constraints, bad luck etc just don’t land anymore. 

Yes, we don’t know the exact conversations between John Henry and Breslow. But we do know what Breslow has said publicly. And I’d imagine that shiny Yale diploma on his wall taught him at least one basic lesson: don’t say things to the media unless you’re confident you can back them up. Or, at minimum, check with ownership before you do.

So when he tells us “we’ll be big players at the trade deadline” and we end up with some curly red-haired guy who absolutely can’t pitch, that’s not bad luck. That’s a failure of expectation-setting. There is accountability there. <Strike 1>

Then came the end-of-season comments, which—credit where it’s due—were actually spot on: We need a middle-of-the-order bat and a legitimate No. 2 starter.

That messaging strongly suggested a plan: maybe keeping Bregman, maybe adding a Pete Alonso–type bat, and pairing that with a real top-end arm. Instead, he finds a “good deal” with the Cardinals that kind of fills those needs if you squint hard enough. And by “fills,” I mean only with a generous amount of imagination. <strike two.>

Then we get to the Bregman fiasco—which has been discussed plenty—but there’s another angle that matters. It looks increasingly like Framber Valdez might have been available on a short, two-year type deal. The speed with which Breslow pivoted after the Bregman situation collapsed felt desperate, not calculated. And while Ranger Suárez is a great addition, Framber Valdez by most accounts is the better pitcher. It looks like he could have been had on a 2 yr deal…. I’ll add I like Suárez, and if we get to postseason he is virtually unhittable —which should be a blast to watch when it happens. But it looks like desperation to me. 

So now here we sit. Breslow still has options. He can:

1. Spend a little more money without mortgaging the future, bring in Suarez on a short one- or two-year deal.

2. Or make a trade that hurts a bit, but actually lands a real difference-maker at second or third base

This team is not boxed in. This team has options. 

But based on what he himself has told the media, it’s hard not to conclude that his plans and negotiation tactics simply aren’t working. Making excuses for him at this point is asinine. Does John Henry kind of suck as an owner these days? Yes. Could Henry be placing real constraints on Breslow behind the scenes? Also yes.

But Breslow is still the one going in front of microphones, telling fans what’s going to happen—and then repeatedly falling astronomically short. That part is not on ownership. That’s on competence, execution, and the ability to sell Fenway, which should be one of the easier jobs in baseball. Literally a tie goes to the Red Sox every time.

please don’t take one sentence out of this entire admitted the way too long diatribe, and dissect it, take the opinion on the whole. Which is yes we do not have Breslow and JH phone conversations/text messages,but there is a pattern of incompetence that has grown at a really fast rate over the last 14 months.

[drewski6]

21 minutes ago, notin said:

Well, it certainly is an unsupported hypothesis…

Can you meet me at "unsubstantiated hypothesis?"

[UtahSox]

54 minutes ago, notin said:

Too many of your anti-Breslow posts live in the realm of speculation and shifting timelines.  And never acknowledge that the Sox at least successfully executed Plan B…

At least you’re admitting his plan never ever turns out. The fact you think our current roster, and options are his Plan B is funny because I believe we are probably on plan F. And if you dissect the transactions desperation definitely sets in.

[drewski6]

19 minutes ago, notin said:

So you’re more worried about losing your cleaning lady than your girlfriend?  That seems a little… well, I mean.

Just how clean does she get stuff and does she mop floors?

No the order wasnt a ranking lol