Red Sox sign Ranger Suarez. 5 years $130 Million

[drewski6]

2 minutes ago, JoeBrady said:

What's your point?  The Cubs bid more than us.

that you are a clown.

[Old Red]

7 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

But AJP isnt talking about his gut , his opinion, or his speculation.

Hes telling you what happened, and Im not hearing any pushback.

AJ got his info from his network inside the MLB industry.

[moonslav59]

3 minutes ago, JoeBrady said:

What's your point?  The Cubs bid more than us.

Yup.

Because the Cubs offered more, Brez misread the market?

The Cubs offered more. Whether Brez thought they did or not doesn't matter, if $165M was all he'd ever offer, not to mention no trade clauses and...

[drewski6]

Just now, Old Red said:

AJ got his info from his network inside the MLB industry.

TY was wondering.  Could be some telephone, details could be a little off.

But AJP said it, Carrabis said something similar. As did Milliken. And the team didnt deny it nor did Breslow.

But its not what Joe wants to believe, so hes going to say "hey none of us really know" and insert his own speculation

Are you sure we arent all biologically frogs? I mean we'll never ACTUALLY know. Im jsut asking questions 

- see how easy that is.

Obscuring the established to manipulate is right out of the playbook

[drewski6]

3 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Yup.

Because the Cubs offered more, Brez misread the market?

The Cubs offered more. Whether Brez thought they did or not doesn't matter, if $165M was all he'd ever offer, not to mention no trade clauses and...

Seems to be what AJ Pierzynski , Tyler Milliken and Carrabis are telling you.

[JoeBrady]

44 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

that you are a clown.

If that's your acknowledgement that I am right, thank you.

[Old Red]

43 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Yup.

Because the Cubs offered more, Brez misread the market?

The Cubs offered more. Whether Brez thought they did or not doesn't matter, if $165M was all he'd ever offer, not to mention no trade clauses and...

Everyone knows the final outcome, but the main story to some is the negotiation process starting from the beginning, which led to that final outcome. Go FISH.

[JoeBrady]

45 minutes ago, Old Red said:

54 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

But AJP isnt talking about his gut , his opinion, or his speculation.

Hes telling you what happened, and Im not hearing any pushback.

AJ got his info from his network inside the MLB industry.

Only one of these two versions can be right.  Either AJP heard it from a first-hand, unbiased source, or he's just passing along a rumor.  Who is the 'network insider'?

[drewski6]

Just now, JoeBrady said:

Only one of these two versions can be right.  Either AJP heard it from a first-hand, unbiased source, or he's just passing along a rumor.  Who is the 'network insider'?

Carrabis, Speier , Milliken, and AJ Pierz have all reported that Brez was super confident in his 165m offer on the table and could ride it out.

Brez has not denied this, nor has the team.

[drewski6]

The funny part is I dont even care.  Im just here to tell you that people using - "hey, we just dont know"

Is something that people have been using as tactic to obfuscate and i see through it.

In this case, theres a lot of people lining up to tell us what happened, and its not what you wish happened

Maybe if you keep wishing though.

[JoeBrady]

45 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

But its not what Joe wants to believe,

I couldn't care less.  When I hear from Bregman, then I might care more.  Just a couple of quotes:

"(The Cubs) offered more money," Heyman continued when asked what the biggest difference this offseason was. 

“They made an offer to Alex Bregman early in the offseason and said, ‘Here it is,’ and (Bregman’s) camp kept going back, saying, ‘That’s not our market, our market’s higher than that,’ and it made Alex a little bit mad and they would not move,” Pierzynski said during a recent episode of “Foul Territory.” “The Red Sox, literally, would not move and would not budge and really wouldn’t negotiate until it was too late.”

[drewski6]

10 minutes ago, JoeBrady said:

I couldn't care less.  When I hear from Bregman, then I might care more.  Just a couple of quotes:

"(The Cubs) offered more money," Heyman continued when asked what the biggest difference this offseason was. 

“They made an offer to Alex Bregman early in the offseason and said, ‘Here it is,’ and (Bregman’s) camp kept going back, saying, ‘That’s not our market, our market’s higher than that,’ and it made Alex a little bit mad and they would not move,” Pierzynski said during a recent episode of “Foul Territory.” “The Red Sox, literally, would not move and would not budge and really wouldn’t negotiate until it was too late.”

“The Sox felt confident in their five-year, $165 million offer, but internally, wanted to avoid bidding against themselves rather than upping their bid at the start of the year in an effort to close out a deal.” The agreement with the Cubs was presented to the Sox as a fait accompli, without a chance to counter, per

@alexspeier

.
Look, how do we really know that George Washington was the first president, neither of us were there.  And how do we really know that theearth is round. I mean sure, its what weve been told but how do we reallllllllly know

You can cast doubt on anything, and its a tactic, BUT alex speier tyler milliken  , aj pierzynski, and carrabis are all painting a similar picture, and it fits a pattern we've seen from breslow and i think you are being incredulous when you doubt it.

What happened was there was an initial offer (we dont know much about it) that was eventually upped to the 165m w heavy deferrals without a NTC.  And by the team this revised offer crossed Bregman's desk , he was already quite frustrated with Breslow and this offer just frustrated him further and he cut off contact. It might be the max that you would pay, it might be more, but all along the people telling breslow that they had bregmans market wrong were proven right.

Because the cubs offer was significantly better.

And we've seen breslow struggle to communicate, and we've seen him be flat unlikeable , and what alex speier is adding is that breslow was never given a third chance after the 165m offer (second chance). Thats bad GM. Not because he refused to give Bregman a blank check, but because he took himself out of the running and his pompous attitude led to a communication breakdown.

So we dont know if breslow is mister line in the sand, value-hawk. But what we do know is that he struggles at communicating and the negotiations ended with bregman and boras getting fed up with breslow and ending em, not necessarily because breslow knew that a penny more would be too much and wow we should applaud him for that.

 

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, drewski6 said:

Seems to be what AJ Pierzynski , Tyler Milliken and Carrabis are telling you.

Could very well be.

I've never claimed Brez botched or didn't botch it. They have their opinions and supposedly some facts. They could be right.

My position is I don't know, and I'm glad Brez didn't offer more. I like the results, even if the process was messed up (or not.)

[moonslav59]

50 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Everyone knows the final outcome, but the main story to some is the negotiation process starting from the beginning, which led to that final outcome. Go FISH.

You are the guy that always says the final result is all that matters. Does the result or process matter to you?

You didn't want Breggie at that price, and neither did I, but now, for some reason, the results are not what matters, and you seemingly are going along for the Brez roast ride.

Would you be happier if Brez did not botch the talks and we got Breggie for $180M?

(Still waiting for the answer from the last question I presented 3 times.)

[drewski6]

Breslow made it very easy for Bregman to sign with the cubs by being dense and annoying.  Thats the last thing you want to do. You want to make Bregman feel like hes wanted/welcomed and almost betraying his teammates by moving on.

The entire time Breslow was revolving his offseason plans around Bregman, while he was simultaneously implying Bregman was lying/exaggerating his market and daring him to take other offers if he had em. Thats jerkness getting in the way.

Breslow gets a lot of credit and leash for getting Crochet, but hes not perfect and his communication skills need improvement.  That doesnt mean hes a bad GM. But Ive been saying this even before the Bregman communication breakdown, and here we are.  There are no disputing accounts what happened, no denials, no counter-narratives (this is the red sox, they love a counter narrative). All we have is 4 accounts, all agreeing that there was a communication breakdown.

 

[drewski6]

9 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Could very well be.

I've never claimed Brez botched or didn't botch it. They have their opinions and supposedly some facts. They could be right.

My position is I don't know, and I'm glad Brez didn't offer more. I like the results, even if the process was messed up (or not.)

Well, I can certainly appreciate that if you didnt want him at 175m/deferred down to 150m (ish) present day value with a NTC that you probably wouldnt care much how /why the breakdown happened.

[Old Red]

29 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

You are the guy that always says the final result is all that matters. Does the result or process matter to you?

You didn't want Breggie at that price, and neither did I, but now, for some reason, the results are not what matters, and you seemingly are going along for the Brez roast ride.

Would you be happier if Brez did not botch the talks and we got Breggie for $180M?

(Still waiting for the answer from the last question I presented 3 times.)

The process is what gets you to the final result. No I didn’t want Bregman, buts it’s never been about that with me. All I said from the beginning is that Bregman was PLAN A, and some on here said just get the deal done, and the Red Sox didn’t get him, and from what I’ve heard from AJ, and others I think Brez’s negotiation had something to do with that, or at the very least didn’t help. Number 12 played GO FISH.

[moonslav59]

7 minutes ago, Old Red said:

The process is what gets you to the final result. No I didn’t want Bregman, buts it’s never been about that with me. All I said from the beginning is that Bregman was PLAN A, and some on here said just get the deal done, and the Red Sox didn’t get him, and from what I’ve heard from AJ, and others I think Brez’s negotiation had something to do with that, or at the very least didn’t help. Number 12 played GO FISH.

Well, "the process" involves watching suspects become superstars, but you poo-poo that idea.

Can you for just once answer what you think?

Did Brez botch the negotiations?

Iy yes, do you think Breggie signs with the Sox if Brez does everything right but can't offer the no trade clause or even match the Cubs numbers?

[notin]

2 hours ago, drewski6 said:

But AJP isnt talking about his gut , his opinion, or his speculation.

Hes telling you what happened, and Im not hearing any pushback.

You NEVER hear pushback.  FO folks who give pushback don’t last long.  Heck it was only LAST YEAR when Zack Short finally gave the dirt of Betts’ free agent offers.

AJ probably got his info from Boras’ people.   Right? 

[notin]

1 hour ago, drewski6 said:

“The Sox felt confident in their five-year, $165 million offer, but internally, wanted to avoid bidding against themselves rather than upping their bid at the start of the year in an effort to close out a deal.” The agreement with the Cubs was presented to the Sox as a fait accompli, without a chance to counter, per

@alexspeier

.
Look, how do we really know that George Washington was the first president, neither of us were there.  And how do we really know that theearth is round. I mean sure, its what weve been told but how do we reallllllllly know

You can cast doubt on anything, and its a tactic, BUT alex speier tyler milliken  , aj pierzynski, and carrabis are all painting a similar picture, and it fits a pattern we've seen from breslow and i think you are being incredulous when you doubt it.

What happened was there was an initial offer (we dont know much about it) that was eventually upped to the 165m w heavy deferrals without a NTC.  And by the team this revised offer crossed Bregman's desk , he was already quite frustrated with Breslow and this offer just frustrated him further and he cut off contact. It might be the max that you would pay, it might be more, but all along the people telling breslow that they had bregmans market wrong were proven right.

Because the cubs offer was significantly better.

And we've seen breslow struggle to communicate, and we've seen him be flat unlikeable , and what alex speier is adding is that breslow was never given a third chance after the 165m offer (second chance). Thats bad GM. Not because he refused to give Bregman a blank check, but because he took himself out of the running and his pompous attitude led to a communication breakdown.

So we dont know if breslow is mister line in the sand, value-hawk. But what we do know is that he struggles at communicating and the negotiations ended with bregman and boras getting fed up with breslow and ending em, not necessarily because breslow knew that a penny more would be too much and wow we should applaud him for that.

 

So now we’re back to the $165mil was the original offer?  These stories are all over the place…

[notin]

3 hours ago, drewski6 said:

We have one. Its AJ Pierzynski. And he told you exactly what happened.  Breslow angered Bregman because Breslow isnt good with people, and Bregman wanted to come back, but he looked at Boras and hes like "this dude isnt listening to me, and its aggravating. Plus I have more money in hand from the cubs."  ANd Boras stayed silent cuz hes not the bad guy here.

Then Bregman told Breslow he was going to sign with the cubs, and thats when bregman upped his offer to 165m,...but he also increased the deferrals and wouldnt include the ntc, and bregman was like you gotta be kidding me

ANd now people wanna pretend that we dont know what happened or that it was breslow being shrewd. Hard line in the sand, i respect that.

None of it happened.  I told you guys that Breslow doesnt human good and it would bite us and there you go

Point Drewski

The timeline appears to be shifting.

Im confused.  Did Breslow up his offer before or after learning about the Cubs?

[drewski6]

22 minutes ago, notin said:

You NEVER hear pushback.  FO folks who give pushback don’t last long.  Heck it was only LAST YEAR when Zack Short finally gave the dirt of Betts’ free agent offers.

AJ probably got his info from Boras’ people.   Right? 

According to Speier, the Red Sox felt confident in their five-year, $165 million offer and were reluctant to move aggressively early, wary of “bidding against themselves.” 

[drewski6]

[Olney] The Red Sox believed they were going to land Bregman with their 5-year, $165 million offer. Including his ‘25 deal, they would’ve paid him $205m over six years, w deferrals. Real disappointment in the organization today.

[drewski6]

19 minutes ago, notin said:

The timeline appears to be shifting.

Im confused.  Did Breslow up his offer before or after learning about the Cubs?

I agree that there are some details that are inconsistent, but I dont think its reasonable to dismiss the whole story, or even the gist/meat of it. A story that has been widely circulated and partially corroborated 

My hunch is either there was only one offer, or the second offer was either made soon after the initial or right before Bregman cut communication. What is consistent across like 5 sources, is that the sox really thought they had him. And they really did operate this offseason in a way that coincides with this.  

This also fits a now well established pattern of communication breakdowns involving Breslow.  Im not saying that he's done an overall bad job, but this is just another chapter in the Breslow folding his arms across his chest and being confrontational with demeanor and body language.

[Duran Is The Man]

1 hour ago, drewski6 said:

Breslow made it very easy for Bregman to sign with the cubs by being dense and annoying.  Thats the last thing you want to do. You want to make Bregman feel like hes wanted/welcomed and almost betraying his teammates by moving on.

The entire time Breslow was revolving his offseason plans around Bregman, while he was simultaneously implying Bregman was lying/exaggerating his market and daring him to take other offers if he had em. Thats jerkness getting in the way.

Breslow gets a lot of credit and leash for getting Crochet, but hes not perfect and his communication skills need improvement.  That doesnt mean hes a bad GM. But Ive been saying this even before the Bregman communication breakdown, and here we are.  There are no disputing accounts what happened, no denials, no counter-narratives (this is the red sox, they love a counter narrative). All we have is 4 accounts, all agreeing that there was a communication breakdown.

 

i always got the idea that Bregman really wanted to stay with the Sox, but the f***ing stiff just couldn't get the deal done—because, well... he's a f***ing stiff.

[JoeBrady]

1 hour ago, drewski6 said:

“The Sox felt confident in their five-year, $165 million offer, but internally, wanted to avoid bidding against themselves rather than upping their bid at the start of the year in an effort to close out a deal.” The agreement with the Cubs was presented to the Sox as a fait accompli, without a chance to counter, per

@alexspeier

IMO, $165M/5 was too high.  But otherwise, I'm fine with that process.

• Confident in their offer
• Wanted to avoid bidding against themselves

[JoeBrady]

27 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

According to Speier, the Red Sox felt confident in their five-year, $165 million offer and were reluctant to move aggressively early, wary of “bidding against themselves.” 

The PV of the Cubs deal is only $154M per Cots.  I assume the $165M includes deferrals, but without knowing how much, it is difficult to compare the two deals.

[notin]

34 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

According to Speier, the Red Sox felt confident in their five-year, $165 million offer and were reluctant to move aggressively early, wary of “bidding against themselves.” 

So you think they should bid against themselves?  I’m confused.

Reportedly Boras tried the same “we have another offer” tactic on the Yankees sith Bellinger.  But the Yankees called his bluff and got the deal they wanted…

[Randy Red Sox]

3 hours ago, JoeBrady said:

Only one of these two versions can be right.  Either AJP heard it from a first-hand, unbiased source, or he's just passing along a rumor.  Who is the 'network insider'?

so who really cares?? Bregman is a Cub so let's move on.

[drewski6]

1 hour ago, Duran Is The Man said:

i always got the idea that Bregman really wanted to stay with the Sox, but the f***ing stiff just couldn't get the deal done—because, well... he's a f***ing stiff.

See, this guy gets it