Red Sox sign Ranger Suarez. 5 years $130 Million

[drewski6]

2 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Lita Ford was a babe back in the 80's, but I'm more of a Black Sabbath fan than an Ozzy solo album guy. 

Ranking Ozzy Sabbath Albums:

Vol 4

Sabbath Bloody Sabbath

Master of Reality

Paranoid

Black Sabbath

Sabotage

Technical Ecstasy

Never Say Die!

13

 

 

I saw Lita Ford live like a month ago.  She brought out Dee Snider for the Ozzie parts.  That was okay, but Dee did his thing after and Im not sure it was planned but she obv let him go a bit. It was also a loooooong concert.

He did his 2 and then covered an AC/DC song

He looked and sounded exactly the same.  Hes still ripped at like 70

[drewski6]

she looked good too but i was pretty far back.

[Old Red]

Heard a discussion today that at the presser introduction for Ranger Sam praised O’Halloran for working on the deal for Ranger, and not Brez who supposedly worked on, and bungled the Bregman negotiations. BorASS was the agent for both Ranger, and Bregman, and said the Ranger deal came together pretty quickly, where we all know the Bregman deal didn’t happen. The discussion was wondering if BorASS worked better with O’Hall, and Brez was told to sit this one out.🤔

[Duran Is The Man]

1 hour ago, Old Red said:

Heard a discussion today that at the presser introduction for Ranger Sam praised O’Halloran for working on the deal for Ranger, and not Brez who supposedly worked on, and bungled the Bregman negotiations. BorASS was the agent for both Ranger, and Bregman, and said the Ranger deal came together pretty quickly, where we all know the Bregman deal didn’t happen. The discussion was wondering if BorASS worked better with O’Hall, and Brez was told to sit this one out.🤔

wouldn't be a bit surprised. we all know Bresloverpay is a f***ing stiff.

[moonslav59]

Just now, Duran Is The Man said:

wouldn't be a bit surprised. we all know Bresloverpay is a f***ing stiff.

Not all. Not even close to all.

[Old Red]

51 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Not all. Not even close to all.

It doesn’t really matter if it’s not all, not even close to all, or none at all? Bregman was PLAN A, and by all accounts thatI heard especially from AJP,Brez bungled the Bregman negotiations right from the start.

[moonslav59]

38 minutes ago, Old Red said:

It doesn’t really matter if it’s not all, not even close to all, or none at all? Bregman was PLAN A, and by all accounts thatI heard especially from AJP,Brez bungled the Bregman negotiations right from the start.

You've been called out on the "all accounts" term before, yet you persist...

🤣

[Old Red]

19 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

You've been called out on the "all accounts" term before, yet you persist...

🤣

I said all accounts that I heard. Do you have anything to the contrary? You wouldn’t be persistently apologizing, or defending Brez again would you? Persistently saying you aren’t doesn’t pass the smell test, but I’m sure you’ll persist, and insist anyway all to NO avail.👋

[moonslav59]

33 minutes ago, Old Red said:

I said all accounts that I heard. Do you have anything to the contrary? You wouldn’t be persistently apologizing, or defending Brez again would you? Persistently saying you aren’t doesn’t pass the smell test, but I’m sure you’ll persist, and insist anyway all to NO avail.👋

See: that is diversion.

I happen to think Brez made mistakes on the Breggie negotiations, but I'm not going to pretend to know what happened. If JH was firm on the no trade clause, then I could give a rat's ass if every account said Brez bitched it. If JH insisted on deferring so much money, then who do you blame?

BTW, you never acknowledged the last time you claimed "by all accounts" the trade was graded an F, and we provided links that gave the trade a C or D. At least I admit when I get things wrong, and admit I'm often wrong, too. When you are wrong, you claim you were right.

Talk about smell.

[JoeBrady]

6 hours ago, Old Red said:

Heard a discussion today that at the presser introduction for Ranger Sam praised O’Halloran for working on the deal for Ranger, and not Brez who supposedly worked on, and bungled the Bregman negotiations. BorASS was the agent for both Ranger, and Bregman, and said the Ranger deal came together pretty quickly, where we all know the Bregman deal didn’t happen. The discussion was wondering if BorASS worked better with O’Hall, and Brez was told to sit this one out.🤔

As someone else pointed out, the fact that the Suarez deal came together so quickly means that they had already come together on numbers, pending the Bregman results.  Nothing mysterious here.

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, JoeBrady said:

As someone else pointed out, the fact that the Suarez deal came together so quickly means that they had already come together on numbers, pending the Bregman results.  Nothing mysterious here.

It seems that way, but I guess some like to assume the worst, and that Brez has no clue.

Afterall, he was our 12th round pick.

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, JoeBrady said:

As someone else pointed out, the fact that the Suarez deal came together so quickly means that they had already come together on numbers, pending the Bregman results.  Nothing mysterious here.

Breggie was overpaid. I'm glad we didn't go further.

I'm glad we got Suarez, and don't care if he was plan B or plan Z. They didn't just bumble into signing the largest and longest deal since Story. 

It wasn't done behind Brez's back, for sure- not that anyone claimed that

 

[Old Red]

9 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

It seems that way, but I guess some like to assume the worst, and that Brez has no clue.

Afterall, he was our 12th round pick.

Wow can you imagine the gaul of some people on another network actually not actually apologizing, or defending Brez, and just finding it interesting that Sam was praising O’Halloran for working on the Ranger deal, and not Brez. Brez must have tired himself all out working on, and finalizing the Bregman deal. Oh wait.🤫

[Old Red]

13 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

See: that is diversion.

I happen to think Brez made mistakes on the Breggie negotiations, but I'm not going to pretend to know what happened. If JH was firm on the no trade clause, then I could give a rat's ass if every account said Brez bitched it. If JH insisted on deferring so much money, then who do you blame?

BTW, you never acknowledged the last time you claimed "by all accounts" the trade was graded an F, and we provided links that gave the trade a C or D. At least I admit when I get things wrong, and admit I'm often wrong, too. When you are wrong, you claim you were right.

Talk about smell.

If, if, if. If you want to go on the assumption that it was JH who was firm on the no trade clause fine. You can also assume it was JH who wanted to defer the money for decades, but then turned around, and gave Ranger more PDV. JH must have told Brez to give Bregman a low offer, and pretty much a take it, or leave it, and not to believe BorASS that they had a better offer on the table. Good strategy to get Bregman mad to start with, and then come back with that so called aggressive offer when it was way too late. So you say Brez bitched it? GOOD ONE.🙈

[Old Red]

10 hours ago, JoeBrady said:

As someone else pointed out, the fact that the Suarez deal came together so quickly means that they had already come together on numbers, pending the Bregman results.  Nothing mysterious here.

I doubt very much they had already come together on the Numbers, and that they had planned all along to offer Ranger more PDV than they offered Bregman, and that only came about, because they lost out on Bregman, and upped the numbers then that Ranger ended up with.

[Bellhorn04]

19 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

Lita Ford was a babe back in the 80's, but I'm more of a Black Sabbath fan than an Ozzy solo album guy. 

Ranking Ozzy Sabbath Albums:

Vol 4

Sabbath Bloody Sabbath

Master of Reality

Paranoid

Black Sabbath

Sabotage

Technical Ecstasy

Never Say Die!

13

 

 

Pretty good.  My fave is Sabbath Bloody Sabbath followed by Sabotage.  Monstrous riffs.

[notin]

15 hours ago, Old Red said:

It doesn’t really matter if it’s not all, not even close to all, or none at all? Bregman was PLAN A, and by all accounts thatI heard especially from AJP,Brez bungled the Bregman negotiations right from the start.

Old Red lives in a world of Sox management criticism. 
 

Who gives a f*** if Bregman was Plan A?  They wanted Bregman.  It didn’t happen. Someone else got stuck with him.  It happens.  Life goes on .  Ask Toronto. Ask San Francisco. At least, unlike those teams, the Sox actually had a Plan B they were able to make happen…

[notin]

35 minutes ago, Old Red said:

I doubt very much they had already come together on the Numbers, and that they had planned all along to offer Ranger more PDV than they offered Bregman, and that only came about, because they lost out on Bregman, and upped the numbers then that Ranger ended up with.

Thank you once again for your insider perspective…

[Bellhorn04]

1 hour ago, notin said:

Old Red lives in a world of Sox management criticism. 
 

Who gives a f*** if Bregman was Plan A?  They wanted Bregman.  It didn’t happen. Someone else got stuck with him.  It happens.  Life goes on .  Ask Toronto. Ask San Francisco. At least, unlike those teams, the Sox actually had a Plan B they were able to make happen…

I would have been happy to sign Bregman but Suarez was a pretty nice pivot.  We just need a third baseman and we're ready to go. 

[moonslav59]

3 hours ago, notin said:

Old Red lives in a world of Sox management criticism. 
 

Who gives a f*** if Bregman was Plan A?  They wanted Bregman.  It didn’t happen. Someone else got stuck with him.  It happens.  Life goes on .  Ask Toronto. Ask San Francisco. At least, unlike those teams, the Sox actually had a Plan B they were able to make happen…

The funniest part of all this is that Ole Red didn't want Breggie at that cost or years, but is pissed at Brez for bungling the negotiations.

[notin]

2 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

The funniest part of all this is that Ole Red didn't want Breggie at that cost or years, but is pissed at Brez for bungling the negotiations.

I wouldn’t have minded Bregman back, but that they pivoted snd still improved the team with a better, younger player is a good thing.

And frankly, that Breslow “bungled” the negotiations is outsider thinking.  Breslow wanted him at a certain price point, the Cubs offered more.  That Breslow didn’t believe such an offer existed isn’t that surprising considering that type of ploy happens all the time. Boras did the same thing with the Yankees during Bellinger contract talks.  Except he was bluffing then…

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, Bellhorn04 said:

I would have been happy to sign Bregman but Suarez was a pretty nice pivot.  We just need a third baseman and we're ready to go. 

Let's say we get the worst choice for our 2026 3B/2Bman addition- maybe Vientos (bad D/decent power.)

Is Suarez + Vientos > Bregman and no more pitchers?

I'd say yes, especially as the years move on past 2026. (on paper, anyway.)

How about E Suarez + R Suarez > Bregman + nada? (We'd likely have to dump salary to make this happen, and it almost certainly won't be Masa or Hicks, but rather Duran ($7.8M) Bello ($9.2M) Campbell ($7.5M) Rafaela ($6,2M) or maybe 2 of these guys. If we trade 1 or 2 of these guys for prospects, it's not good for the 2026 season. It might not be good, even if we get ML'ers back. The issue with the E Suarez and trade salary idea is this:

Who do we trade Bello for, if we have ESuarez at 3B and Mayer at 2B? A catcher? A top RP'er? A 2Bman and demote Mayer to AAA? A 3Bman and DH  E Suarez? 

It's kinda complex.

[moonslav59]

3 minutes ago, notin said:

I wouldn’t have minded Bregman back, but that they pivoted snd still improved the team with a better, younger player is a good thing.

And frankly, that Breslow “bungled” the negotiations is outsider thinking.  Breslow wanted him at a certain price point, the Cubs offered more.  That Breslow didnt believe such AB offer existed isnt that surprising considering that type of ploy happens all the time. Boras did the same thing with the Yankees during Bellinger contract talks.  Except he was bluffing then…

Exactly how I felt.

The Cubs paid more than I said was the max, but had we paid that extra amount, I'd have been happy Breggie was back. I'm usually not big on the whole clubhouse leadership thing, but Breggie was an extreme plus on that, and I firmly believe he helped several Sox players in just one year with the Sox. His defense was a welcome sight to see, too. His offense was a plus, despite not having the power we need. We'd have been a much better team with him, right now.

The plus side is that we are also a much better team with Ranger, just in a different way. He also rates to age better than Breggie. We also have two logjams (OF and SP depth) that we should be able to use to acquire a decent 3B/2Bman, without subtracting enough to make the trade a push. We should win any trade we make for a 3B/2Bman, in terms of how much we improve that position vs lessening our bench strength.

I'm not sure about all the ins and outs of the Breggie talks , but I seriously doubt it was Brez who set the no trade clause in stone and the must have major deferments clause, too. If it was, then it's fair to place blame on Brez. The whole "by all accounts" Brez bungled it ignore the accounts that talked about the no trade clause and steep deferments.

Would Breggie have said yes to $5M more from the Sox but without the no trade clause and deferments? Do "all accounts" address that aspect?

[Old Red]

2 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

The funniest part of all this is that Ole Red didn't want Breggie at that cost or years, but is pissed at Brez for bungling the negotiations.

You are right I didn’t want Bregman back for any longer than they originally signed him for, which was three years, but you are wrong when you say I’m pissed for as you say that Brez bitched the negotiations. I am just pointing out that the Red Sox could not land Bregman who was PLAN A just like they discussed it on ESPN, and MLB Network, and also on different talk shows just like this one, and yes even on NESN. Of course I don’t criticize Brez just like I didn’t criticize Bloom which is just like you didn’t apologize, or defend Bloom, or apologize, or defend Brez, or JH.The funniest part was that none of the different sports sites I mentioned praised Brez at all in him handling the Bregman negotiations. How do you account for that? Are they all pissed? Are they all wrong?👋

[notin]

10 minutes ago, Old Red said:

You are right I didn’t want Bregman back for any longer than they originally signed him for, which was three years, but you are wrong when you say I’m pissed for as you say that Brez bitched the negotiations. I am just pointing out that the Red Sox could not land Bregman who was PLAN A just like they discussed it on ESPN, and MLB Network, and also on different talk shows just like this one, and yes even on NESN. Of course I don’t criticize Brez just like I didn’t criticize Bloom which is just like you didn’t apologize, or defend Bloom, or apologize, or defend Brez, or JH.The funniest part was that none of the different sports sites I mentioned praised Brez at all in him handling the Bregman negotiations.👋

What kind of praise did you expect for offering a player $35mill a year to play third base?

[moonslav59]

5 minutes ago, Old Red said:

You are right I didn’t want Bregman back for any longer than they originally signed him for, which was three years, but you are wrong when you say I’m pissed for as you say that Brez botched the negotiations. I am just pointing out that the Red Sox could not land Bregman who was PLAN A just like they discussed it on ESPN, and MLB Network, and also on different talk shows just like this one, and yes even on NESN. Of course I don’t criticize Brez just like I didn’t criticize Bloom which is just like you didn’t apologize, or defend Bloom, or apologize, or defend Brez, or JH.The funniest part was that none of the different sports sites I mentioned praised Brez at all in him handling the Bregman negotiations.👋

You said Brez "supposedly  bungled" the negotiations. If changing the word to botched is inflammatory, I apologize.

"Sam praised O’Halloran for working on the deal for Ranger, and not Brez who supposedly worked on, and bungled the Bregman negotiations. " - Ole Red

Now, you'll accuse me of "overanalyzing," which is what you say when posters call you out on your  statements.

I'm not seeking our or saying anyone did or should "praise" Brez. I'm not even saying he did not bungle or botch the Breggie negotiations. I'm saying I don't know, because we don't know who insisted on the no-no trade clause and deferments. I could care less if 100% of "sites" you watch and listen to did not praise Brez or blamed him for things we don't know who was at fault over.

You see this as defending Brez. it's not. It's not praising or criticizing. If I don't know something, I refrain from saying they bungled it.

If he did bungled it, I'm glad. I wish Bloom bungled the Masa negotiations.

 

[moonslav59]

2 minutes ago, notin said:

What kind of praise did you expect for offering a player $35mill a year to play third base?

Some would have praised Brez had he signed Bregman to fill in the blank amount. I do believe that,

But, so what? Ole Red & I would have said they overpaid and should not have done it, and Brez would still be a bum in Ole Red's eyes, no matter what. (not mine.)

[Old Red]

8 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

You said Brez "supposedly  bungled" the negotiations. If changing the word to botched is inflammatory, I apologize.

"Sam praised O’Halloran for working on the deal for Ranger, and not Brez who supposedly worked on, and bungled the Bregman negotiations. " - Ole Red

Now, you'll accuse me of "overanalyzing," which is what you say when posters call you out on your  statements.

I'm not seeking our or saying anyone did or should "praise" Brez. I'm not even saying he did not bungle or botch the Breggie negotiations. I'm saying I don't know, because we don't know who insisted on the no-no trade clause and deferments. I could care less if 100% of "sites" you watch and listen to did not praise Brez or blamed him for things we don't know who was at fault over.

You see this as defending Brez. it's not. It's not praising or criticizing. If I don't know something, I refrain from saying they bungled it.

If he did bungled it, I'm glad. I wish Bloom bungled the Masa negotiations.

 

How about AJP’s account who seemed to have inside information on how Brez handled things? You are not really calling me out for my statements when I’m just repeating what I heard others say on other networks not named talksox.

[moonslav59]

5 minutes ago, Old Red said:

How about AJP’s account who seemed to have inside information on how Brez handled things? You are not really calling me out for my statements when I’m just repeating what I heard others say on other networks not named talksox.

If you don't think Brez bungled the negotiations, say so and I will 100% apologize. I assume if someone says "by all accounts" then doesn't say, but I disagree with what everyone is saying, they think the statement is true. Forgive me, if I'm wrong doing that.

I assumed you posted your statement because you agreed with it and did not say otherwise in that post,

It's not the first time you cast Brez in this light, and the whole 12th round pick is just one example. I'm fine with not thinking Brez is doing a good job. There is ample examples on mistakes he's made. 

I'm not sure if not signing Bregman was a mistake and for several reasons.

1. I thought $150M was too much, but acceptable. (I think we both agree he wasn't worth what he got.)

2. I'm not sure if the no trade clause and deferments were the reasons he signed with the Cubs, of if it was the money. If it wasn't about the money, I don't know if Brez is to blame or not for those aspects of the offer, and the fact that many or all sites are saying Brez bungled it proves nothing to me. (I also would not repeat what other say, if I disagreed with it, unless I came out and said I disagree or doubt what they are saying.)

3. I think Brez has done a pretty good job turning the team around and using the assets Bloom left him in a mostly beneficial way. I'm especially happy with the apparent uptick in our pitching outlook from the MLB level all the way down to the most "suspect" of suspects in A ball and the DSL. He's made mistakes, that I have pointed out, and he has made some good moves that I have supported. Overall, I feel he's done a good job. 

I don't run away from supporting Brez on things I think he's done well, but. I won't sit idle when I'm accused of supporting Brez on issues I have not supported or have no opinion on, due to lack of information needed to have a firm opinion.

[Old Red]

30 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Some would have praised Brez had he signed Bregman to fill in the blank amount. I do believe that,

But, so what? Ole Red & I would have said they overpaid and should not have done it, and Brez would still be a bum in Ole Red's eyes, no matter what. (not mine.)

Don’t forget Kimmi whom would have been with us. Just, because Brez failed his main mission doesn’t mean he’d be a bum. Kind of harsh aren’t you? Even for a 12th pick.