Bregman signs with the Cubs

[Old Red]

Love it, Love it, Love it! I loved the Alonso signing. I loved the Cease signing, and I loved this signing. Getting rid of Raffy for a one, and DONE.🙈🤭🤮

[Old Red]

6 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

I guess it would have been better to have not gotten Breggie, last winter, then, right?

As it turned out? Y E S! One, and done.🤮

[Bellhorn04]

8 hours ago, JoeBrady said:

As someone that wanted AB, this looks like a significant overpay.

It does look like an overpay, but the market for premium free agents is so limited.  We can't just turn our attention to the next Bregman because there is none.  There's Bichette but he'll be even more expensive.

[vjcsmoke]

I just KNEW this was going to happen. The Red Sox were lowballing as usual and LOSE out on Bregman.

Now they have neither Devers nor Bregman to fill the void of the missing power bat.

This is NOT a club serious about winning. This club is only serious about PINCHING PENNIES.

Absolutely shameful offseason.

 

[vjcsmoke]

8 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

I guess it would have been better to have not gotten Breggie, last winter, then, right?

IF you turn back time and never sign Bregman then you never create the drama that gives Red Sox ownership the EXCUSE to get rid of Devers. If you're being honest was it really worth it when we have nothing to show for all that melodrama? We lost an in his prime power bat and got back a bag of beans. Now both Bregman and Devers are playing for different teams and we have no prospects for a replacement when ownership has clearly shown they are unwilling to spend.

Is getting 70 millions off the books to line Henry's pockets a win for the Red Sox from an organizational point of view or the fans point of view? I really don't think so. It feels like the Bregman contract talks was just more posturing, hemming and hawing so that the Red Sox could pretend to be doing something when the plan from the beginning was to do as little as humanly possible while attempting to look busy.

[Old Red]

8 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

It does look like an overpay, but the market for premium free agents is so limited.  We can't just turn our attention to the next Bregman because there is none.  There's Bichette but he'll be even more expensive.

I know you think more highly of Bregman than I do, and wanted him back, but this was all pretty much assumed at least by me that this was always going to be just a one, and done when he signed what was pretty much just a one year deal last offseason, which makes the Raffy situation all the more puzzling. Once other teams got involved this offseason that were serious bidders it sealed the fate.

[urban cowboy]

Whether intentional, or just thrifty, it seems they are getting the financial house in order. Long term, it's much better to invest in the farm system, be patient, and make selective "over-pays" for big names. I think we have an excellent foundation and should stick with the players we have been developing, e..g., I wouldn't give up on Casas or Campbell, or even Mayer for that matter. Don't spend for the sake of spending. Bregman, dodged a bullet. Saurez, yuck. Even Contreras ... meh. (granted he was not super expensive)

[Bellhorn04]

27 minutes ago, Old Red said:

I know you think more highly of Bregman than I do, and wanted him back, but this was all pretty much assumed at least by me that this was always going to be just a one, and done when he signed what was pretty much just a one year deal last offseason, which makes the Raffy situation all the more puzzling. Once other teams got involved this offseason that were serious bidders it sealed the fate.

We're all just making our best guesses.  I thought the Devers trade was justified by his behavior.   But they have done nothing to replace his bat. 

[notin]

9 hours ago, UtahSox said:

I keep coming back to this, because there are really only one or two explanations. 

1. Breslow is as smart as he thinks he is.

If that’s true, then he had to know exactly how the last 14 months were going to play out with the Devers–Bregman situation. None of this would be accidental. Anyone paying attention knew how fans would react to trading Devers for a bag of peanuts. But if you sign Bregman, and make it a one year $40 million contract you can get off of the whole thing . It created the optics needed to justify trading away a generational hitter with 7 to 8 years of control remaining. If that was the plan, then he executed his mandate perfectly:

“clear payroll, reset the books, we’ll sign a bunch of guys we ALREADY have 5 years of control over, nonetheless sign them to big extensions increase our AAV Payroll ……. so Sam Kennedy can get on the mic at fan fest, and tout how this ownership has spent $498 million.” Such a bunch of hogwash. 

2. Breslow isn’t as smart as he thinks he is.

In that case, none of this went according to plan—and it shows. It exposes how outclassed he is at building a culture, understanding emotional intelligence, selling a long-term vision, and convincing BOTH ownership and elite free agents that this organization knows where it’s headed. And I sure hope the media/fan. Don’t let them off the hook.

Either way, the result is the same. Nothing about this tenure has been inspiring. At best, it’s calculated austerity. At worst, it’s gross organizational malfeasance. And so far, it’s been beyond underwhelming.

Yeah!! Stupid conspiracy theories!!

[Bellhorn04]

5 minutes ago, urban cowboy said:

Whether intentional, or just thrifty, it seems they are getting the financial house in order. Long term, it's much better to invest in the farm system, be patient, and make selective "over-pays" for big names. I think we have an excellent foundation and should stick with the players we have been developing, e..g., I wouldn't give up on Casas or Campbell, or even Mayer for that matter. Don't spend for the sake of spending. Bregman, dodged a bullet. Saurez, yuck. Even Contreras ... meh. (granted he was not super expensive)

It kind of feels like the approach now is to be patient forever...

[Randy Red Sox]

9 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

I doubt we add a #2. Yes. I think they feel we don't need one.

They say they are not going to trade an Of'er. I'm not sure why they think that way. Not only do we have 4 FT OF'ers, we also have Campbell and even Masa who can play LF.

Maybe they believe Tolle, Early and the rookie bats will carry us.

I'm not upset at losing Breggie at that cost and length. I was over Alosno.

I do think we can find ways to make us better. I like a lot of what Brez has done, but I'm not sure he'll go as far as I want or as far as many others seem to want. I think they realize we need a bat and a 3Bman. Suarez seems to be the last man standing now. Overpaying for him shouldn't take 5 years, so maybe there is hope.

How many here really think Brez and JH should have outbid the Cubs for Breggie?

Not me. Bregman is all about the $$ and I would have not matched that. What I would do is go as high as 6 years and 200 million for Bo who I think is at least as good a player and is 4 years younger. I know signing him is a pipe dream though and it won't happen.

I also think someone will overpay for Suarez too and after all how much is a weak fielding 3B who will hit about .230 and maybe 35 HR and K a ton??  We have lost Devers who was good for 35 Hr's and a much better avg and a similar glove for a guy who will likely cost close to the same as Suarez will get. All for 2/3 of a 40 million dollar season from Bregman. And people slam Devers for being a bad teammate. I don't recall hearing he was a bad teammate before Bregman was signed.

As for a #2 SP the Sox feel they got that from Gray. I guess we will see. They are also counting on Sandavol and Otavio to fill out the rotation along with Bello and Crawford as a #6/swing guy. I can't wait to listen to the Bastards of Boston podcast today to hear their views.

[Randy Red Sox]

9 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

I guess it would have been better to have not gotten Breggie, last winter, then, right?

in hindsigt YES.  I certainly don't think he was worth 40 million.  I also think it was badly handled with Devers. Yes Devers overreacted after he ALLEGEDLY refused to play 1B but I am pretty sure that I read/heard somewhere that Cora said he never asked him. to play 1B.

I am not defending Devers at all but I don't really recall being a bad team-mate BEFORE Bregman arrived. Terrible defensive 3B yes but not a real bad team-mate. And now we have neither and your hope is to sign Suarez who overall is not as good a player as Devers and will cost close to the same $$.

So YES in hindsight signing Bregman was a mistake and not even getting a comp pick makes it even worse.

[Bellhorn04]

Bregman's deal includes $70 million deferred.

[Old Red]

7 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Bregman's deal includes $70 million deferred.

No trade, and NO opt outs.

[JoeBrady]

10 hours ago, harmony said:

AB Part 2.

Alex Bregman and Adrian Beltre were 31-year-old third basemen who spent only one year in Boston before leaving town.

Yup, I still remember the cries of 'cheap' when we signed Beltre.

[Old Red]

10 hours ago, UtahSox said:

I keep coming back to this, because there are really only one or two explanations. 

1. Breslow is as smart as he thinks he is.

If that’s true, then he had to know exactly how the last 14 months were going to play out with the Devers–Bregman situation. None of this would be accidental. Anyone paying attention knew how fans would react to trading Devers for a bag of peanuts. But if you sign Bregman, and make it a one year $40 million contract you can get off of the whole thing . It created the optics needed to justify trading away a generational hitter with 7 to 8 years of control remaining. If that was the plan, then he executed his mandate perfectly:

“clear payroll, reset the books, we’ll sign a bunch of guys we ALREADY have 5 years of control over, nonetheless sign them to big extensions increase our AAV Payroll ……. so Sam Kennedy can get on the mic at fan fest, and tout how this ownership has spent $498 million.” Such a bunch of hogwash. 

2. Breslow isn’t as smart as he thinks he is.

In that case, none of this went according to plan—and it shows. It exposes how outclassed he is at building a culture, understanding emotional intelligence, selling a long-term vision, and convincing BOTH ownership and elite free agents that this organization knows where it’s headed. And I sure hope the media/fan. Don’t let them off the hook.

Either way, the result is the same. Nothing about this tenure has been inspiring. At best, it’s calculated austerity. At worst, it’s gross organizational malfeasance. And so far, it’s been beyond underwhelming.

Just remember Brez was only the 12th pick in the HOBO draft.

[JoeBrady]

10 hours ago, UtahSox said:

But if you sign Bregman, and make it a one year $40 million contract you can get off of the whole thing .

My guess is that they signed Bregman thinking that either Mayer or Campbell would need another year of development.

[JoeBrady]

1 hour ago, Old Red said:

assumed at least by me that this was always going to be just a one, and done

My assumption as well.  My argument at the time was that we weren't to extend Bregman at $30M to play 3rd when we had one of the top prospects in BB to do so.  I was under the assumption that KC would be our 2B.  The entire Bregman issue relates to KC not coming close to grabbing the 2B position.  Last year at this time, I'd have been very happy with a 2026 IF of Casas, Campbell, Story and Mayer.

[moonslav59]

12 hours ago, Randy Red Sox said:

None of our OF will bring us a #2 without adding a prospect.  Even signing Suarez which I doubt they will do will be a significant downgrade at 3B given that he has a glove for no apparent reason. Probably a moot point anyway because I am fairly certain someone will outbid us on him. 

I guess it depends on what you think a #2 is. Gray is a #2. He did not cost us a top 7 prospect.

BTV won't even accept a Duran+Crawford for Lodolo trade, as they view it as too extreme of an overpay.

I can see thinking Pablo Lopez, Luis Castillo, Brad Singer and Mitch Keller are #3s not #2's but they could be had for one of our Of'er or maybe even Campbell + Crawford or Harrison.

I may be overvaluing Duran, Rafaela and Abreu, but there are some quality pitchers out there that will not cost us Tolle, Early, Witherspoon, Bennet or Valera. One year guys like Bubic won't either. I'm not sure about Peralta: he may take a biggie to get, but 3 years of Duran, 4 years of Abreu and 8 years of Rafaela have real good value.

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, Old Red said:

Just remember Brez was only the 12th pick in the HOBO draft.

In that context, we found a gem.

[Bellhorn04]

1 minute ago, moonslav59 said:

I guess it depends on what you think a #2 is. Gray is a #2. He did not cost us a top 7 prospect.

Gray is a 36 year old #2, that's the main qualifier for me... 

[moonslav59]

56 minutes ago, JoeBrady said:

My assumption as well.  My argument at the time was that we weren't to extend Bregman at $30M to play 3rd when we had one of the top prospects in BB to do so.  I was under the assumption that KC would be our 2B.  The entire Bregman issue relates to KC not coming close to grabbing the 2B position.  Last year at this time, I'd have been very happy with a 2026 IF of Casas, Campbell, Story and Mayer.

Agreed,

The Campbell and Mayer outlooks look more sketchy now, and even if KC finds his groove again, it will probably be as a LF'er or... gasp... DH.

I'm not sure Arias holds the same hope that KC and Mayer had, so another one and done infielder is not really what we need. We NEED to fix the 2B decade long problem, once and for all. I'm fine with starting 2026 with Mayer/Romy at 2B. I'm actually more than fine with that idea, but that leaves Eaton as our 3Bman, and that needs a major upgrade.

Yes, Suarez sucks on defense. If it takes 3 years to sign him, he can play 1B year 3, but that's 2 seasons of rotten 3B defense. I suppose we can move Mayer to 3B, late in games, and that could help, but we really need a big bat like E Suarez. I'd do it.

If we trade, I'd rather we find a 3Bman than a 2Bman, but either would be fine, as long as we dont have to give up too much.

[moonslav59]

3 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Gray is a 36 year old #2, that's the main qualifier for me... 

Indeed, and that is a concern. That is why I think Duran for Lodolo makes sense.

Sign Suarez or trade DHam and Crawford/Harrison for Vientos. Not ideal, but not a bad 26.

[Tedballgame]

3 hours ago, Bellhorn04 said:

It does look like an overpay, but the market for premium free agents is so limited.  We can't just turn our attention to the next Bregman because there is none.  There's Bichette but he'll be even more expensive.

If the Red Sox offered 5/150 would that be lowballing? I don't think so. The Cubs over paid.

[moonslav59]

4 minutes ago, Tedballgame said:

If the Red Sox offered 5/150 would that be lowballing? I don't think so. The Cubs over paid.

Exactly. $170M/5 would have been a gross overpay, and knowing JH, it would have meant dumping another salary or not signing anybody else of significance for 5 years.

I doubt Breggie takes $5M less to play for BOS, so we'd have had to match the Cubs gross overpay.

Bye, bye, Breggie!

[Tedballgame]

8 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Exactly. $170M/5 would have been a gross overpay, and knowing JH, it would have meant dumping another salary or not signing anybody else of significance for 5 years.

I doubt Breggie takes $5M less to play for BOS, so we'd have had to match the Cubs gross overpay.

Bye, bye, Breggie!

He was a one year mercenary. I'm not attached to him. Its not losing Fisk, Clemens, Damon or Mookie. Those hurt. I do think he will help the Cubs for the next few years if he can stay on the field.

[Old Red]

30 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Gray is a 36 year old #2, that's the main qualifier for me... 

Gray at this point is a 36 year old SP, and hasn’t done anything in a Red SOX uniform yet, which hopefully he does better than he did in a Yankee uniform.

[Larry Cook]

1 minute ago, Old Red said:

Gray at this point is a 36 year old SP, and hasn’t done anything in a Red SOX uniform yet, which hopefully he does better than he did in a Yankee uniform.

Being on a 1 year deal, he had incentive to excel!!  
if early and/or Tolle step forward big time, gray could also be tremendous trade bait for prospects come July for some nl contender 

[moonslav59]

17 minutes ago, Tedballgame said:

He was a one year mercenary. I'm not attached to him. Its not losing Fisk, Clemens, Damon or Mookie. Those hurt. I do think he will help the Cubs for the next few years if he can stay on the field.

Agreed, but we can't ignore losing 1150 PAs from Devers, Breggie, Ref & Lowe.

We can make up for it with better pitching or defense or add another bat by spring, but Breggie and Lowe were good on D, and we lost Gio, Dobbins and Wilson, so the pitching and defensive gains are yet to be realized.

[moonslav59]

16 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Gray... hasn’t done anything in a Red SOX uniform yet...

Coulda said the same about Crochet, Breggie, Chapman and Wilson, last winter.