Red Sox 2025 Season Review/Offseason Preview Thread

[notin]

53 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Sox said 300M, Mookie said it was less and for the reporters to go talk to Bloom. If we're charitable, we can go with 300M because it doesn't really matter. 

Ive seen multiple reports of $300mill, but I want to say most of them were pre-Bloom.  By the time Bloom was hired, extending Betts was next to impossible…

[Bellhorn04]

2 hours ago, JoeBrady said:

IMO, Lester was far worse.  I think Betts always intended on leaving, but Lester said 'you're going to have to rip this jersey off my back'.

Zack Wilson (?) who worked in the Sox organization at the time insisted that Betts would gladly have stayed if they got to the number he was looking for.  Wilson said the Sox offer topped out at a little under $300 million and they had simply decided they didn't want to go any higher.  

[notin]

21 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Zack Wilson (?) who worked in the Sox organization at the time insisted that Betts would gladly have stayed if they got to the number he was looking for.  Wilson said the Sox offer topped out at a little under $300 million and they had simply decided they didn't want to go any higher.  

Zack Wilson played QB for the Miami Dolphins.  Zack Scott is the Sox (and later Mets) former FO person to whom you are referring…

 

 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

18 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Zack Wilson (?) who worked in the Sox organization at the time insisted that Betts would gladly have stayed if they got to the number he was looking for.  Wilson said the Sox offer topped out at a little under $300 million and they had simply decided they didn't want to go any higher.  

Though an exorbitant amount in regular human money, it wasn't quite commensurate with Mookie's market value at the time -- his agent and even his own mother both knew it and reminded him not to bend.

The Sox offer to Betts was more than Henry or any Boston owner ever offered a ballplayer before, but it was in the same ballpark as contracts signed by Machado and Harper, and Mookie was just a better all-around player in 2019, especially since he was entering his prime.

People can argue all they want now about whether Mookie is still better than Machado and Harper -- he's still got them both in career WAR -- but the real gauge for any franchise is how much are three World Series rings worth?

[mvp 78]

14 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

the real gauge for any franchise is how much are three World Series rings worth?

In a bizzaro world, everyone is complaining that the Boston Red Sox are ruining baseball instead of the Doyers. 

[JoeBrady]

5 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

Dodgers extended him for an amount that was closer to the "ridiculous and unreasonable" number than what the Sox offered. 

The RS offer, from what I heard, was $300M/10.  The LAD present value offer was $306.7M/12.  The RS offer, if true, was more lucrative.  Covid probably impacted that, but that's impossible to calculate.

[notin]

42 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

Though an exorbitant amount in regular human money, it wasn't quite commensurate with Mookie's market value at the time -- his agent and even his own mother both knew it and reminded him not to bend.

 

And yet several months after The Trade, Mookie signed with the Dodgers for roughly the same AAV Boston had offered him…

[mvp 78]

15 minutes ago, JoeBrady said:

The RS offer, from what I heard, was $300M/10.  The LAD present value offer was $306.7M/12.  The RS offer, if true, was more lucrative.  Covid probably impacted that, but that's impossible to calculate.

How is the Sox offer more lucrative? The PV value of the Dodgers offer is higher. The cash was far higher.

[mvp 78]

Having to talk about this six years later is demoralizing. 

[JoeBrady]

50 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

How is the Sox offer more lucrative? The PV value of the Dodgers offer is higher. The cash was far higher.

The cash was $6.7M higher in exchange for 2 extra years of service.  The PV average was a fair bit lower.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

56 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Having to talk about this six years later is demoralizing. 

And yet, we on this forum -- the benighted knights of the keyboards -- represent Red Sox Nation and thus must stay resolute to never let those who'd rewrite or erase HISTORY...

... no matter if those responsible are convicted, pardoned, promoted or immortalized for their immortal sins on plaque that builds between their fangs, and has bards singing "to dream, the Unflossible Dream..."

[Kimmi]

On 3/6/2026 at 6:47 PM, FredLynn said:

From what I read their offer to Alonso was not competitive. They didn't even try to get Schwarber. I think you cannot make a team comprised solely of top end talent like Betts, Alonso, Schwarber etc. You need a mix of excellent players and players who don't suck but are more average to slightly below average. What frosts me is that this year we had a chance to be really relevant and have a shot at a ring. I don't think many people believe that is the case anymore.

The Red Sox made a respectable offer to Alonso.  In the end, it was not competitive to what the Orioles offered because of the number of guaranteed years, but it wasn't a lowball offer.

I am happy with what the team did this offseason.  I think we not only have a shot at a ring, I think we have a good shot at a ring.

[Kimmi]

12 hours ago, jdc69 said:

If you are right, I agree. Not thinking about money, not resigning Lester was as stupid a non resigning as Mookie, though Mookie was younger. Its as stupid as any off-season decision of any team in any sport anytime. If you say Mookie came back with a ridiculous offer, that's to be considered, though Red Sox could afford it if anybody could. I specifically remembered Lester saying to the camera he was willing to take a home team discount. They both went on to win World Series with the team they signed to prove how stupid it was.

Lester was willing to take a home team discount.  The Red Sox should have been all over that.

From what I've read, Mookie countered with 12 years and $420M.  Sorry, but if you're looking to get extended before reaching free agency, you have to be willing to leave some money on the table.  To me, it was clear that Mookie was unwilling to do that.  

[Kimmi]

7 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

Dodgers extended him for an amount that was closer to the "ridiculous and unreasonable" number than what the Sox offered. 

Yes, and I still shake my head in disbelief that they offered him what they did during the uncertain times of the pandemic.  I think they could have gotten him for less.

Mookie bet on himself and it paid off.  Good for him.  However, that doesn't make the Red Sox wrong in trading him.  

[moonslav59]

3 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

He's been good at 2b and SS too? He's put up 28 fWAR since going to LA (worth $225M) and 152 HRs. Even if he stinks in a few years, he will have already earned his full contract. He's basically the cost of Masa and Sandoval this year. I'd take Mookie over those two. 

Agreed.

He might even have a few decent seasons left in him.

[Kimmi]

5 hours ago, JoeBrady said:

IMO, Lester was far worse.  I think Betts always intended on leaving, but Lester said 'you're going to have to rip this jersey off my back'.

Lester really wanted to stay.  Betts did not.  JMO, of course.

Still one of my all time favorite Red Sox moments is the hug between Lester and Francona after Lester threw his no hitter.

 

[mvp 78]

5 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Agreed.

He might even have a few decent seasons left in him.

He'll earn his contract over the next 5 seasons. After that, it'll just be PR. They may have phantom IL him each season. 

[Kimmi]

1 hour ago, mvp 78 said:

Having to talk about this six years later is demoralizing. 

It's what we do here.  Mookie appreciates it.

[Kimmi]

10 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Agreed.

He might even have a few decent seasons left in him.

The problem is typically not in the first half of the contract.  That type of contract can financially handcuff a team during the latter half, unless you're the Dodgers and are willing to spend like drunken sailors.

[moonslav59]

Just now, Kimmi said:

The problem is typically not in the first half of the contract.  That type of contract can financially handcuff a team during the latter half, unless you're the Dodgers and are willing to spend like drunken sailors.

Indeed, but Betts lived up to every inch of the first part of his deal. As MVP pointed out, he's just about earned all the money, already.

I think he'll still be decent for a few more years, too. That's icing on the cake, even if he's not "earning" his remaining salary- year by year. (It's amazing that he's played 5 years and has 7 left.)

He's 33 and will be 34-39 for his last 6 seasons of his 12 year deal.

Had we signed him to $300M/10, which we are not certain we offered that or he'd have taken it, but we'd be half way through.

[notin]

1 hour ago, mvp 78 said:

How is the Sox offer more lucrative? The PV value of the Dodgers offer is higher. The cash was far higher.

The Dodgers consisted not only of $300,000,000 in deferred money, but it was to be paid out at $30 per year for 10,000,000 years …

[Kimmi]

2 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Indeed, but Betts lived up to every inch of the first part of his deal. As MVP pointed out, he's just about earned all the money, already.

I think he'll still be decent for a few more years, too. That's icing on the cake, even if he's not "earning" his remaining salary- year by year. (It's amazing that he's played 5 years and has 7 left.)

He's 33 and will be 34-39 for his last 6 seasons of his 12 year deal.

Had we signed him to $300M/10, which we are not certain we offered that or he'd have taken it, but we'd be half way through.

I don't disagree that Betts will likely be worth his entire contract by the time it's all said and done.  That still doesn't change the fact that the last years of the contract could be a huge albatross.  He might end up being good for all 12 years.  Who knows?  I'm just not a fan of these big contracts, and it's not a risk I'm willing to take (despite the fact that it's not my money.  LOL)

 

[notin]

35 minutes ago, Kimmi said:

The problem is typically not in the first half of the contract.  That type of contract can financially handcuff a team during the latter half, unless you're the Dodgers and are willing to spend like drunken sailors.

I’m starting to wonder why the epitome of fiscal irresponsibility is a drunken sailor, a man who, when at sea, has no ability to spend while he earns

Now let’s compare this to a college student with a credit card…

[jad]

55 minutes ago, notin said:

I’m starting to wonder why the epitome of fiscal irresponsibility is a drunken sailor, a man who, when at sea, has no ability to spend while he earns

Now let’s compare this to a college student with a credit card…

Shore leave gets 'em every time.

[JoeBrady]

2 hours ago, Kimmi said:

The Red Sox made a respectable offer to Alonso.  In the end, it was not competitive to what the Orioles offered because of the number of guaranteed years, but it wasn't a lowball offer.

I am happy with what the team did this offseason.  I think we not only have a shot at a ring, I think we have a good shot at a ring.

I know Fred is the only one that believes in ST numbers, but for those that do:

• Alonso OPS is .792 and Contreras is at 1.563.
• Schwarber is at .833 while Duran is at 2.167.

[moonslav59]

Phillies extend Luzardo to $135M/5 starting in 2027.

[notin]

3 hours ago, Kimmi said:

The Red Sox made a respectable offer to Alonso.  In the end, it was not competitive to what the Orioles offered because of the number of guaranteed years, but it wasn't a lowball offer.

I am happy with what the team did this offseason.  I think we not only have a shot at a ring, I think we have a good shot at a ring.

Whatever they offered Alonso was probably too much.  One-dimensional player whose only selling point was he was supposed to be substantially cheaper than someone like Bregman.

Contreras doesn’t excite me.  But I think prefer him to Alonso at what Baltimore is paying him…

[notin]

18 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Phillies extend Luzardo to $135M/5 starting in 2027.

Same deal as Ranger Suarez…

[moonslav59]

2 minutes ago, notin said:

Same deal as Ranger Suarez…

Yup.

Suarez (31 in AUG) 129 ERA+ last 2 years (308 IP)/ 129 ERA+ last 5 years (694 IP)

Luzardo (29 in SEP, but contract begins at age 29-30) 104 ERA+ (250 IP)/ 103 ERA+ last 5 years (624 IP) He did have a nice 2 year stretch '22-'23 with a 129 ERA+.

[Bellhorn04]

8 hours ago, notin said:

Zack Wilson played QB for the Miami Dolphins.  Zack Scott is the Sox (and later Mets) former FO person to whom you are referring…

 

 

Thanks, there was a good reason for that question mark...