Red Sox 2025 Season Review/Offseason Preview Thread

[Old Red]

24 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

What is the cost of a ticket today in comparison to 2003? 

Depending on the game, bleacher seats can be $69-76 face value now. Field box goes up to $307. While his payroll has doubled, fans are definitely paying more than double to go see the Sox. 

 

Yes the highest tickets around, but the revenue to payroll seems to be lagging behind.

[mvp 78]

6 minutes ago, JoeBrady said:

I don't think you're getting it.  Most of the accountants want smart spending, not spending just for the sake of spending. 

No. I'm not sitting here treating my fandom like it's the company I work for. I understand that you don't spend for the sake of spending, but that's a different argument than actual problem. JH has determined to not spend above a certain threshold which artificially limits what the team can do. This forces his CBO to trade assets to acquire players rather than simply use financial might to acquire them. The best team would do both. Right now, the Sox are not adequately using their financial might when they have the ability to. 

Was I a proponent of the Carl Crawford signing? No. Bad move for LF. AGon was fine though.

Players from this year I'm not upset the Sox didn't sign to FA deals: Schwarber, Alonso, Cease, Naylor, King. Without knowing the 3b plan (Breggie?), it's hard to say who they should have signed. I'm not a huge Bo guy, so I won't be upset if they pass on him as well. Ranger Suarez can't pitch 32 games in one season to save his life. It's just not a good FA class. I don't know enough about Imai to comment. The guy I wanted was Woodruff, but he probably wasn't leaving the Brewers.

The mistake was not grabbing another pitcher to match with Crochet last season. Sox were scared off by the Fried number, but that's the cost of doing business. Per FanGraphs, Fried was well worth his contract and should be if he stays healthy. If not Fried, they should have just never let Eovaldi go in '22 and kept him around as the perpetual #2. 

Spending just to spend is Masa, Buehler, Kluber, Sandoval and I don't think anyone is on board with that. 

[JoeBrady]

1 hour ago, drewski6 said:

I have firends who never evere ever make fantasy trades in our league.

How many posters do we have in here?  I mentioned this about twenty years ago and got surprisingly little feed back.

Anyone want to create a standard 8-team Yahoo league?  We could make it for free.  Or, if we have enough bold fans, we could create a small $$$ league, with the winner giving the money to their favorite charity.

LMK if anyone is interested.

[mvp 78]

6 minutes ago, JoeBrady said:

This is a pet peeve for me, as well as a corporate philosophy.  Getting off the RS for a moment, I think some teams should tank occasionally, cut the payroll in half, but then cut the ticket prices and concession prices at the same time.  I think you could engage a fair amount of fans of a rebuild, if they thought the team was making a sacrifice as well.

Unfortunately, teams apparently aren't allowed to say that, and then they spiral down until they have 60 wins and the rebuild is blindingly obvious.

The Red Sox didn't cut ticket prices though. It would have been actual good PR for once. 

[Hitch]

3 minutes ago, JoeBrady said:

This is a pet peeve for me, as well as a corporate philosophy.  Getting off the RS for a moment, I think some teams should tank occasionally, cut the payroll in half, but then cut the ticket prices and concession prices at the same time.  I think you could engage a fair amount of fans of a rebuild, if they thought the team was making a sacrifice as well.

Unfortunately, teams apparently aren't allowed to say that, and then they spiral down until they have 60 wins and the rebuild is blindingly obvious.

I like this idea. You don't even have to announce it. Just do it and lower prices. Cut the fat, get the farm, go again, reward the fans during the process.

I don't think fans would sign up for it though. We've seen it constantly for the past 24 hours. It's still very much the mindset of - we're the Boston Red Sox, we should be outspending everyone. Despite being 4th in revenue and 4 further back in terms of overall wealth. Hell, we've got MVP quoting an actor playing JH in a fictional meeting, from a movie, to back up his dislike of the man. 🫣 You're not going to get pragmatism from a lot of fans it would appear.

[mvp 78]

2 minutes ago, JoeBrady said:

How many posters do we have in here?  I mentioned this about twenty years ago and got surprisingly little feed back.

Anyone want to create a standard 8-team Yahoo league?  We could make it for free.  Or, if we have enough bold fans, we could create a small $$$ league, with the winner giving the money to their favorite charity.

LMK if anyone is interested.

We had an annual yahoo league for several seasons, but it fell apart a few years ago. I think it was $20 most years and then free the last year. https://talksox.com/forums/forum/66-contestsprizes/

[mvp 78]

2 minutes ago, Hitch said:

I like this idea. You don't even have to announce it. Just do it and lower prices. Cut the fat, get the farm, go again, reward the fans during the process.

I don't think fans would sign up for it though. We've seen it constantly for the past 24 hours. It's still very much the mindset of - we're the Boston Red Sox, we should be outspending everyone. Despite being 4th in revenue and 4 further back in terms of overall wealth. Hell, we've got MVP quoting an actor playing JH in a fictional meeting, from a movie, to back up his dislike of the man. 🫣 You're not going to get pragmatism from a lot of fans it would appear.

I go to enough MiLB games and watch way more on MLB.tv, if you give me MiLB prices I'm not going to complain. I'll watch a AAA team if it's not BOS pricing. 

[Old Red]

41 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

You are correct. This Henry is spending about double what the one in 2003 and 2004 did. 

Good point.

This Henry is locking up our young stars, so we don't see another Betts, Bogey, Lester fiasco. Correctomundo!

This Henry of today gave out the biggest contracts in Sox history both in terms of large and long and another in AAV.

For once, I agree with you!

🤪

Like I said before JH is not one of the big boys anymore. What the Red Sox paid in payroll in 2018-19 when they were at the top of the list wouldn’t be near the top anymore, which you conveniently left out. It’s great they lock up the young suspects, but they also need some outside help that may be expensive, so as I’ve said not only there are bigger boys now, but more of them. It’s not just the Yankees anymore, but Toronto too just in the division. Be happy the Red SOX spending is about double to 2003-2004, and be happy Roman is locked up, but if you think JH is as dedicated today as he was when he bought the team, or even 11 years ago when he showed up at the Felger, and Mazz show to set the record straight as he called it I think you are more than mistaken.

[mvp 78]

Also, do you think it's the actor that comes up with the line? That's what it sounds like. 

[Hitch]

2 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

I go to enough MiLB games and watch way more on MLB.tv, if you give me MiLB prices I'm not going to complain. I'll watch a AAA team if it's not BOS pricing. 

It's what should happen, but won't because, well - business. Everyone wants to make money not give it away.

[JoeBrady]

1 hour ago, drewski6 said:

The people who are afraid to say this is the beginning our window its time for results

I don't think anyone thinks that.  As far as I am concerned, this is our window, and should both add another IF AND trade for a #2.  

But one counter-point to windows, I think some fans have unrealistic expectations and think every year could be our year, if only we spent more.  We were a bad team from 2020-2024, despite getting a little lucky in 2021.  Adding big FAs to weak teams with no pitching never works.

Past that, while I would still decline on contracts like Alonso, we should certainly be spending.

[mvp 78]

1 minute ago, Old Red said:

Like I said before JH is not one of the big boys anymore. What the Red Sox paid in payroll in 2018-19 when they were at the top of the list wouldn’t be near the top anymore, which you conveniently left out. It’s great they lock up the young suspects, but they also need some outside help that may be expensive, so as I’ve said not only there are bigger boys now, but more of them. It’s not just the Yankees anymore, but Toronto too just in the division. Be happy the Red SOX spending is about double to 2003-2004, and be happy Roman is locked up, but if you think JH is as dedicated today as he was when he bought the team, or even 11 years ago when he showed up at the Felger, and Mazz show to set the record straight as he called it I think you are more than mistaken.

For reference, Pedro was paid 12.5M every year. Sandoval is going home with 12.75M this year. 😎

[Hitch]

1 minute ago, mvp 78 said:

Also, do you think it's the actor that comes up with the line? That's what it sounds like. 

Um, no, The person who came up with the line is the writer, obviously. In this case, Aaron Sorkin. 

The meeting between Beane and Henry is fictional. Sorkin talks about piecing together what he thinks they may have talked about had they met that day.

Just like The Social Network (another Sorkin movie) is a movie jampacked full of imagined conversations, not a documentary of what happened. 

[mvp 78]

4 minutes ago, Hitch said:

It's what should happen, but won't because, well - business. Everyone wants to make money not give it away.

Well, they should give it away. Give it to me specifically. My wife wants to redo most of the house. 

[mvp 78]

2 minutes ago, Hitch said:

Um, no, The person who came up with the line is the writer, obviously. In this case, Aaron Sorkin. 

The meeting between Beane and Henry is fictional. Sorkin talks about piecing together what he thinks they may have talked about had they met that day.

Just like The Social Network (another Sorkin movie) is a movie jampacked full of imagined conversations, not a documentary of what happened. 

I saw it on my tv. It actually happened. Brad Pitt met John Henry. 

[Hitch]

1 minute ago, mvp 78 said:

Well, they should give it away. Give it to me specifically. My wife wants to redo most of the house. 

I think they should give it to you, too. It would make you less grouchy! 😆

[JoeBrady]

1 hour ago, Hitch said:

Devers is not here because he twice refused to help the team and challenged the entire organisation.

He's also not here because his value as a DH is less than it would be as even a weak-fielding 3B.  If I have a 110-112 OPS+ guy that I am already paying for, I'd prefer to use Devers $30M+ elsewhere.

[mvp 78]

1 minute ago, Hitch said:

I think they should give it to you, too. It would make you less grouchy! 😆

It would certainly go a long way. 

[JoeBrady]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

Do you think 2025 was the same as 2022-2024?

Even if it turns out to be a one and done uptick, it was an uptick, nonetheless.

It's a huge uptick.  We were a bad team from 2022-2024, with little help from cheap prospects.  If you don't have that, no amount of spending will make up for it.  Now we have plenty on controlled, high-quality players.

[Old Red]

14 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

For reference, Pedro was paid 12.5M every year. Sandoval is going home with 12.75M this year. 😎

Good point.🤓

[JoeBrady]

1 hour ago, drewski6 said:

Ive never bought a house because I try to zag when everyone else zigs, and Im over here kind of wishing I bought a house 15 years ago.

15 years ago was when people were zagging.  Warren Buffet said it best (he borrowed it from someone else) when he said 'be fearful when others are greedy and greedy when other people are fearful'.  After the mortgage debacle, I'd see comments all day long in Bloomberg people saying they would never buy a house, or that buying a house was stupid.  That's usually when to make a move.

That said, if you took your house mortgage money and invested in the S&P, you're still doing pretty well.

[drewski6]

15 minutes ago, JoeBrady said:

I don't think anyone thinks that.  As far as I am concerned, this is our window, and should both add another IF AND trade for a #2.  

But one counter-point to windows, I think some fans have unrealistic expectations and think every year could be our year, if only we spent more.  We were a bad team from 2020-2024, despite getting a little lucky in 2021.  Adding big FAs to weak teams with no pitching never works.

Past that, while I would still decline on contracts like Alonso, we should certainly be spending.

Of course people think that! Ive thought that! (Fear that its put up or shut up time)

The most recent Celtics championship. The team had fallen short of winning it all a couple years in a row, and the excuse that Brown/Tatum were still young had been used up by the previous years of falling just short, and you cant really point to supporting cast either because the duo had played with a lot of different players.

It was put up or shut up time for the dynamic duo of Tatum and Brown, and they rose to the occasion and met the expectations.

But going into that year, I was getting nervous because more was at stake vs lets say 3 yrs prior when JT was 22 and Brown was 24 where even a playoff birth would be gravy. But the point is the stress/expectations werent there when your team is super young but they come as that team matures.

My beloved PC Friars, our coach Kim English has not had a last good couple of years. I like Kim English, so Im more nervous this year because the excuses are running dry.

Same thing with a QB.  If you love Drake Maye and he struggles year 1, you are like no biggie, rookie.  If he struggles year 3, and you are a fan, you start getting nervous.

When its put up or shut up time when its do or die time, there is an elevation of nerves. Some people dont like that and seek to convince themselves that its not put up or shut up time, that any year is just like any other.

But not every year has the same amount on the line.  Look at the Bruins a couple years ago.  THey had such a good reg season, it was bergy and krejci last year, it was a huge year.  We were supposed to win it all. But we fell on our face. That was a harder end to bruins season than most because of what was at stake.

Being backed against the wall is scary. Last chance is scary. 

[mvp 78]

20 minutes ago, JoeBrady said:

It's a huge uptick.  We were a bad team from 2022-2024, with little help from cheap prospects.  If you don't have that, no amount of spending will make up for it.  Now we have plenty on controlled, high-quality players.

They are controlled, but they aren't cheap anymore after signing extensions (which started in '24 TBF). 

[Hugh2]

1 hour ago, UtahSox said:

Sometimes everybody zags for a reason….. IMO the most dangerous thought you can have, is the thought that you’re the smartest person in the room. 

Your opinion is well shared me thinks.  

That's also one of my favorite lines of all time "the smartest guys in the room" also a great book about the all the "smarties" who ran ENRON into the ground.  

[UtahSox]

sounds like Bregman has an “aggresive offer” from RS and hasn’t accepted. 

Shifting gears out of the box idea…… 

I was just listening to MLB radio and they were talking about how bad everyone missed on Tucker Market.

I think Red Sox should now go up to him and offer him a 5yr 70m deal. 14m AAV. Offer 50m cash for first year, 5m for years 2-5. *with an opt out clause after year 1. Kyle gets 50m in his pocket…. Retests the waters next year.

then go offer the same deal to Bichette 50m cash 1st year 5m for years 2-5 a 14m aav. Get these 2 for 2026.

For the same 28m aav you’re gonna get Bregman. 

now you’re down 100m in cash but we’ve established we’ve been netting like crazy last few years. Follow that with you can trade 2 out of 4 outfielders for SP2. Abreu/ Duran/ Campbell or Rafaela. 

 

[Old Red]

28 minutes ago, JoeBrady said:

It's a huge uptick.  We were a bad team from 2022-2024, with little help from cheap prospects.  If you don't have that, no amount of spending will make up for it.  Now we have plenty on controlled, high-quality players.

I wouldn’t necessarily call the Red Sox bad for the most part from 2022-2024 even though they had losing records, and last place in the division finishes. They seem to fade In those years right around the trade deadline.

[UtahSox]

Just now, Old Red said:

I wouldn’t necessarily call the Red Sox bad for the most part from 2022-2024 even though they had losing records, and last place in the division finishes. They seem to fade In those years right around the trade deadline.

The #3-4 revenue team should NEVER finish sub 500 IMO. When was the last time the Yankees were sub 500? It’s easier to remember the few years they miss the playoffs than the years they made a deep run. Because they rarely miss the playoffs. This should be our standard. 

[JoeBrady]

1 hour ago, UtahSox said:

Biggest differentiator in wealth in our country is owning a home.

Just imho, the best financial aspect of owning a house is that it forces you to pay attention to your spending habits.  Nothing focuses the mind more than being able to reconcile your checking account in your head.

[UtahSox]

Just now, JoeBrady said:

Just imho, the best financial aspect of owning a house is that it forces you to pay attention to your spending habits.  Nothing focuses the mind more than being able to reconcile your checking account in your head.

Agree that financial discipline is a Major factor. As historically homes haven’t risen as much as S&P 500 yet wealth favors home owners. Stability less moving around, feel different about your disposable income if you have a mortgage etc etc. 

[JoeBrady]

1 hour ago, drewski6 said:

Who wins a team of 100 WAR with a 300m payroll (.3 WAR /$)

or a team with a 50 WAR with a 100m payroll (.5 WAR/$)

More money is always better.  But getting 100% return on $280M will beat the heck out of a team with an 85% return on $300M.  There is no easy or straightforward answer.