Red Sox (Giolito) vs Blue Jays (Gausman): 9/23/25, 7:07pm

[illinoisredsox]

19 minutes ago, Duran Is The Man said:

Scherzer got rocked his last game. from espn: the Royals sent 10 batters to the plate against Max Scherzer (5-4), who exited after recording just two outs and allowing seven hits in the shortest non-injury start of his career. It was Scherzer’s shortest outing since facing just one batter while pitching for Washington on June 11, 2021, before leaving with an injury.

All of which means absolutely nothing. Any pitcher in the majors has the ability to shut down any team at any time.  What separates the great from the good from the average from the poor is how often they can do it.

In the 1955 World Series, Don Larsen started game 2 and didn’t last 2 innings.  4 days later he threw a perfect game. 

Scherzer isn’t anywhere near what he once was, but that doesn’t mean he’s not capable of coming up with a gem every once in a while.  He threw several pretty good games in a row in late July and August but has struggled since. 

I like our odds, but you never know.

[Yaz Fan Since 67]

Story and the rest of the team has had such a strange defensive season.  They make a ton of errors which are killers but they also make a lot of tough plays.  Now compare that to the Yankees, from what I have seen they just don't make plays that can be made and look really sloppy a lot of the time.

 

What fun these games are now.  I was in favor of the expanded playoffs because more teams are in the playoff race and so many games are huge right now. I had always thought the Tigers series would be different, figured they'd be playing out the string with backups. Now those will be playoff games and great fun to watch.  

 

We need the Crochet we have seen all season, not the Crochet we've seen recently.  

[moonslav59]

8 hours ago, FredLynn said:

If we were 10-9 and needed 14-5 to make the playoffs then it’s a choke. 10-9 is barely over .500. Not good enough for a team trying to make the postseason. 
So again: if we manage to complete the gag job then the 2025 FLOPS can join the choke club along with so many other Flops teams. If the make the playoffs they are exempt.

This franchise has a long history of blowing it. Let’s hope the 2025 team doesn’t join them.

We were 2.5 out from 1st place, yes- now we are 4 out.  We had the 4th best record inn the AL then, and still do, now. We were 3.5 up on team #6 and now we are 1 up. We are currently 2 up on team 7 with the tiebreaker (kinda like being 3 up) and were 5 up on team 7 on Sept 1st.

A bit dramatic on the "choke" thing, right?

A 2 game swing is not a choke.

If anything, we've been pretty even over the system. We've had lots of small ups and downs with a couple or three more longer ups than downs. It looks, to me, like other team's have had more stark winning and losing stretches.

Go SOX!

 

[Bellhorn04]

8 hours ago, FredLynn said:

If we were 10-9 and needed 14-5 to make the playoffs then it’s a choke. 10-9 is barely over .500. Not good enough for a team trying to make the postseason. 
So again: if we manage to complete the gag job then the 2025 FLOPS can join the choke club along with so many other Flops teams. If the make the playoffs they are exempt.

This franchise has a long history of blowing it. Let’s hope the 2025 team doesn’t join them.

The question is why you keep calling the 2025 team FLOPS when they haven't flopped yet.  And there's no possible intelligent answer to that question.

[mvp 78]

Record in Sept:

Tigers 5-14

Astros 9-11

Red Sox 10-9

Jays 11-9

Yankees 13-7

Mariners 15-5

Guardians 17-5

[Bellhorn04]

If it ended after last night the Sox, Tigers and Guardians are in and the Stros are out.

[drewski6]

Baseball is predictably unpredictable.  Look no further than Trevor "please dont opt out" story, who going into this season trevor "this bad contract feels neverending" story

[moonslav59]

33 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

The question is why you keep calling the 2025 team FLOPS when they haven't flopped yet.  And there's no possible intelligent answer to that question.

Like teams carry on tendencies from wholly different players from past debacles. Plus, why can't one view our team tendency of winning 4 times in less than 30 years, when a league with 30 teams should produce only 1 ring per 30 years?

Interesting to view a team with 4 rings in 21 years as a flop.  Our 50 Man roster (40+ 10 on 60 Day IL)

Why does one or two team's ghost crowd out 4 teams' ghosts?

Then, when you look at what "flop" actually means, it means a team with high expectations does not meet them, or a team that was way ahead of everyone, then fell apart at the end. The Sox are neither of those.

I know what it's like to feel negative about the Sox chances. I was a fan from the early 70's and expected defeat and chokes like I expected the sun to rise. I get it, but yes, what is the basis for this example of a team?

Our current 50 man roster (40+10 on 60 Day IL) has 42 players who weren't even on the 40 to start the 2022 season! 34 were not on the 40 on opening day 2023! Hell, Hendriks is #25 out of 50! 24 players were added after the 2024 season began, and that's not even counting the players, Like O'Neill, who came and went.

[FredLynn]

50 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

The question is why you keep calling the 2025 team FLOPS when they haven't flopped yet.  And there's no possible intelligent answer to that question.

Probably because here at crunch time they are playing, essentially. .500 baseball. This is in part because Breslow whiffed at the TD. Seattle got Suarez and Naylor to bolster their lineup . We got M&Ms. 

[FredLynn]

1 minute ago, moonslav59 said:

Like teams carry on tendencies from wholly different players from past debacles. Plus, why can't one view our team tendency of winning 4 times in less than 30 years, when a league with 30 teams should produce only 1 ring per 30 years?

Interesting to view a team with 4 rings in 21 years as a flop.  Our 50 Man roster (40+ 10 on 60 Day IL)

Why does one or two team's ghost crowd out 4 teams' ghosts?

Then, when you look at what "flop" actually means, it means a team with high expectations does not meet them, or a team that was way ahead of everyone, then fell apart at the end. The Sox are neither of those.

I know what it's like to feel negative about the Sox chances. I was a fan from the early 70's and expected defeat and chokes like I expected the sun to rise. I get it, but yes, what is the basis for this example of a team?

Our current 50 man roster (40+10 on 60 Day IL) has 42 players who weren't even on the 40 to start the 2022 season! 34 were not on the 40 on opening day 2023! Hell, Hendriks is #25 out of 50! 24 players were added after the 2024 season began, and that's not even counting the players, Like O'Neill, who came and went.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating. On Sept 1 we were challenging for first place. Instead of putting their feet on the gas pedal the team is coasting. If they make the playoffs the Flops label goes away. Otherwise they join the many teams that choked in September. .500 ball at crunch time isn’t good enough.

[moonslav59]

20 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Record in Sept:

Tigers 5-14

Astros 9-11

Red Sox 10-9

Jays 11-9

Yankees 13-7

Mariners 15-5

Guardians 17-5

I see two flops, 3 Mehs and 2 hot teams.

Here are some cherrypicked sample sizes:

SEP 14th>

8-1 CLE

7-1 SEA

6-3 NYY

5-3 BOS

4-5 TOR

3-5 HOU

1-7 DET

 

AUG 31>

16-5 SEA

17-6 CLE

13-8 NYY

12-9 TOR

11-9 BOS

8-13 HOU

6-14 DET

 

AUG 21>

21-10 CLE (1-2 v BOS)

20-9 SEA

20-11 NYY (4-4 v BOS)

18-12 BOS

16-13 TOR (0-1 v BOS)

15-15 HOU

9-19 DET

 

July 4th>

45-27 CLE

43-26 BOS

43-27 SEA

41-29 NYY & TOR

32-38 HOU (2-4 v BOS)

31-38 DET

[moonslav59]

14 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

Probably because here at crunch time they are playing, essentially. .500 baseball. This is in part because Breslow whiffed at the TD. Seattle got Suarez and Naylor to bolster their lineup . We got M&Ms. 

We had also won 3 straight up to Sept 2nd, Anthony's last game. Yes, we've been about .500 since then.

BTW, OPS since Aug 1st:

.851 Naylor (8HRS and 26 RBI in 172 PAs)

.682 Suarez (11 Hrs and 24 RBI in 195 PAs)

Our 1Bmen and Anthony replacements:

.815 Lowe (2 Hrs and 14 RBI in 101 PAs)

.787 Romy (2 HRs and 17 RBI in 147 PAs)

.794 Eaton (1 HR and 10 RBI in 59 PAs)

While the HR total are way unbalanced, the RBIs are 50 for SEA in 367 PAs and 41 RBIs in 317 PAs for BOS.

I wish we had gotten Naylor and Ryan, but we didn't and Ryan has kinda sucked, so let's get over it.

 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

17 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

Probably because here at crunch time they are playing, essentially. .500 baseball. This is in part because Breslow whiffed at the TD. Seattle got Suarez and Naylor to bolster their lineup . We got M&Ms. 

I agree Brez not bolstering the line-up could be fatal, but if he's to blame, how can we fault benchwarmers and platoon players for not coming through?

Won't it be more of a miracle if these guys, inspired by Cora the magician, actually make the playoffs?

The mighty Red Sox, featuring a clean-up man with 2 home runs on the season... meanwhile, Yoshida is batting .327 in September -- and relying on a guy who was cut last year by the worst team in history... Romy, batting .367 this month.

[notin]

2 hours ago, Bellhorn04 said:

The question is why you keep calling the 2025 team FLOPS when they haven't flopped yet.  And there's no possible intelligent answer to that question.

The Sox are not cruising, but they are far from flopping.

The Tigers, on the other hand, are on the verge of the worst collapse in MLB history.  At one point, they had a 15.5 game lead over Cleveland. Completely gone.  This would be the largest deficit ever erased in MLB history, eclipsing the 15 game deficit the 1915 Boston Braves overcame to pass the Phillies…

[mvp 78]

1 hour ago, FredLynn said:

If they make the playoffs the Flops label goes away. 

Until they lose in the WC, right? 🥸

[mvp 78]

20 minutes ago, notin said:

The Sox are not cruising, but they are far from flopping.

The Tigers, on the other hand, are on the verge of the worst collapse in MLB history.  At one point, they had a 15.5 game lead over Cleveland. Completely gone.  This would be the largest deficit ever erased in MLB history, eclipsing the 15 game deficit the 1915 Boston Braves overcame to pass the Phillies…

Serves them right for their run last season when they were 8 games below .500 in August.

[FredLynn]

14 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Until they lose in the WC, right? 🥸

Not for me. Getting in is enough progress. Not getting in for me means our GM and manager didn't do their jobs well enough.

[FredLynn]

1 hour ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

I agree Brez not bolstering the line-up could be fatal, but if he's to blame, how can we fault benchwarmers and platoon players for not coming through?

Won't it be more of a miracle if these guys, inspired by Cora the magician, actually make the playoffs?

The mighty Red Sox, featuring a clean-up man with 2 home runs on the season... meanwhile, Yoshida is batting .327 in September -- and relying on a guy who was cut last year by the worst team in history... Romy, batting .367 this month.

Success and failure in baseball are TEAM EFFORTS, from the owner to the GM to the coaches to the players. If they FLOP, which is a very real possibility, the entire team flops.

[moonslav59]

2 hours ago, FredLynn said:

The proof of the pudding is in the eating. On Sept 1 we were challenging for first place. Instead of putting their feet on the gas pedal the team is coasting. If they make the playoffs the Flops label goes away. Otherwise they join the many teams that choked in September. .500 ball at crunch time isn’t good enough.

That's  not proof of a choke or flop.

They lost their best batter and dropped about 2 games to TOR with a chance to gain those back in 2 days.

SEA passed them by going something like 16-2. We passed HOU and DET along the way and are still at #4 in the AL.

You can spin all you want, but we retained our same slot at Sept 1.

[FredLynn]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

We had also won 3 straight up to Sept 2nd, Anthony's last game. Yes, we've been about .500 since then.

BTW, OPS since Aug 1st:

.851 Naylor (8HRS and 26 RBI in 172 PAs)

.682 Suarez (11 Hrs and 24 RBI in 195 PAs)

Our 1Bmen and Anthony replacements:

.815 Lowe (2 Hrs and 14 RBI in 101 PAs)

.787 Romy (2 HRs and 17 RBI in 147 PAs)

.794 Eaton (1 HR and 10 RBI in 59 PAs)

While the HR total are way unbalanced, the RBIs are 50 for SEA in 367 PAs and 41 RBIs in 317 PAs for BOS.

I wish we had gotten Naylor and Ryan, but we didn't and Ryan has kinda sucked, so let's get over it.

 

Lowe needed a change of scenery. Its hard I would imagine to get motivated to play for a team that is just playing out the string. My guess is that it would have been the same with Ryan. There is no way you can say that Breslow achieved his goals at the TD. He WHIFFED.

[FredLynn]

2 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

That's  not proof of a choke or flop.

They lost their best batter and dropped about 2 games to TOR with a chance to gain those back in 2 days.

SEA passed them by going something like 16-2. We passed HOU and DET along the way and are still at #4 in the AL.

You can spin all you want, but we retained our same slot at Sept 1.

Its hardly "spin". YOU might be satisfied with a good effort; I am not. If we do not make the playoffs this year, a very real possibility, then this team will have completed the FLOP and can join the long list of other FLOPS teams that choked down the stretch.

[Bellhorn04]

8 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

Not for me. Getting in is enough progress. Not getting in for me means our GM and manager didn't do their jobs well enough.

So you are promising that if the make the playoffs you will not call them Flops again until at least 2026.

[FredLynn]

6 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

So you are promising that if the make the playoffs you will not call them Flops again until at least 2026.

Exactly. And if they blow it are you ready to label them as FLOPS?

[mvp 78]

Sox 96.1%

Tigers 80.4%

Guardians 80.3%

Astros 43.2% (93.7% a week ago)

[Bellhorn04]

6 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

Exactly. And if they blow it are you ready to label them as FLOPS?

FLOPS is yours and you can have it.

I'll be disappointed.  And I have said some critical things the last few days in the "Take a bow, Mr. Breslow" thread.

[notin]

24 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

Lowe needed a change of scenery. Its hard I would imagine to get motivated to play for a team that is just playing out the string. My guess is that it would have been the same with Ryan. There is no way you can say that Breslow achieved his goals at the TD. He WHIFFED.

You’re just giving Ryan an excuse for sucking.  He gets paid better for success in these “meaningless” games…

[notin]

13 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

Exactly. And if they blow it are you ready to label them as FLOPS?

Absolutely not.   Losing out in a tight race that was always tight isnt choking.  It’s not like the 2007 Mets…

[moonslav59]

28 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

Lowe needed a change of scenery. Its hard I would imagine to get motivated to play for a team that is just playing out the string. My guess is that it would have been the same with Ryan. There is no way you can say that Breslow achieved his goals at the TD. He WHIFFED.

I've agreed over 10 times that Brez failed at the deadline, but since we do not know what could have been done, I'm not going to hold him over a fire for it.

I know you do.

[moonslav59]

27 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

Its hardly "spin". YOU might be satisfied with a good effort; I am not. If we do not make the playoffs this year, a very real possibility, then this team will have completed the FLOP and can join the long list of other FLOPS teams that choked down the stretch.

10-9 and 4-2 are not a flop, so it IS spin.

[moonslav59]

12 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Sox 96.1%

Tigers 80.4%

Guardians 80.3%

Astros 43.2% (93.7% a week ago)

Now, that looks like a flop.

So, would Detroit.s chart.