Athletics (Ginn) vs Red Sox (Bello): 9/18/25, 1:35pm

[mvp 78]

2 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I have agreed Brez should have done way more at the deadline. I was focused more on pitching, since I did not forsee the Anthony & Abreu injuries, as well as the prolonged slumps by Bregman and others.

I admit I was wrong, but it's hard for me to bash Brez over not doing something I wasn't calling for at the time. I did mention getting a better 1Bman, at the time, but it was not my top priority or criticism, at the time.

So your only problem with Pumpsie is that he said "Go Guardians" then? 

[mvp 78]

4 minutes ago, notin said:

Of course his premise was the Sox have a long history of choking “down the stretch.”  The 1986 team made it all the way to Game 7 of the World Series, and while Game 6 of that series fell apart, let’s not forget that team had an equally impressive comeback from the brink in the ALCS.

Oh and that was also 39 years ago.  I would bet not a single person affiliated with the team then is still in the organization, including hot dog vendors.  Might as well lead with “This team choked when Pesky held the ball in ‘46 and THEY’RE DOING IT AGAIN!! Same story every 79 years!!!”

There were several times the Sox had comebacks even though they didn't win it all. HOWEVER, the Sox have won 4 freakin' World Series in the past 20 years or so. To sit here and say the organization will always be "the Flops" is just a little silly. They've won more titles in that timeframe than any other org, right? 

[notin]

11 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Ok? The org's push towards velo is going to get pitchers injured more often than in other orgs. Mayer is always injured and can't be relied on. Casas was injured very early in the season and wasn't replaced for a long time. Abreu has a history of nagging injuries. Bregman is older and has had leg injuries before. The only injury that I would point to as being unexpected is Roman Anthony. 

Whats your point?  That injuries were not a factor because players have been injured before and a theory that the Sox will ruin pitchers again?

And some of this might be ancient history.  Bregman has played in 461 out of 486 games over the last 3 years.  How was his injury expected?  Are you saying he was clearly due?

[FredLynn]

18 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Craig traded away Devers and said "we'll be buying at the deadline, we'll win more games going forward." They had already called up Anthony when they traded Devers. There was a path to keeping them both. The org just couldn't work it out. The team would have been better this year if they had Devers. They traded Devers for Harrison and some garbage. At the deadline, they were definitely NOT buyers. They didn't improve themselves. Breslow said they would, but they didn't and it's not fair to say "it was a seller's market" because IT ALWAYS IS A SELLER'S MARKET AT THE DEADLINE. People started falling all over themselves when Lowe had a few good games and how shrewd Breslow was for picking him up. Be real. He was a DFA'd player and is continuing to play like one. 

Exactly! Breslow whiffed. He did some good things in the past like getting Crochet and Chapman but when it came to fortifying the team and putting it in the best possible position to make the playoffs he screwed up. And that’s getting very old. 
I think if they don’t get in he needs to go. And he can take Cora and half the position players with him. 

[mvp 78]

Just now, notin said:

Whats your point?  That injuries were not a factor because players have been injured before and a theory that the Sox will ruin pitchers again?

And some of this might be ancient history.  Bregman has played in 461 out of 486 games over the last 3 years.  How was his injury expected?  Are you saying he was clearly due?

They were a factor, but it's going to be an expected factor on the pitching side here on out. Sox will need to plan for it. Can't expect pitching health if guys are ramping up velos to career highs up and down the system.

There are a lot of internal options that just don't have a history of staying healthy (Casas, Mayer, Abreu). Continuing to rely on them is foolish. The reason Cora loves Duran is that he posts. Sox need guys that can post and less guys in the trainer's room. This is why I wouldn't re-sign Bregman. He's just not going to be reliable going forward and you can only carry so many MLB guys on your 40 man roster.

[notin]

3 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

There were several times the Sox had comebacks even though they didn't win it all. HOWEVER, the Sox have won 4 freakin' World Series in the past 20 years or so. To sit here and say the organization will always be "the Flops" is just a little silly. They've won more titles in that timeframe than any other org, right? 

I agree.

One problem I have is people refuse to differentiate between a team choking and another team gettting insanely hot.  The 1978 team won 99 games!! Since 1947, only the 2018 team has won more games.  And it was the Red Sox who won “down the stretch” to force game 163 while the Yankees lost.

But the Yankees played .750 baseball for over 3 months that year, which is an insanely hot pace for an insanely long time.  The bulk of that comeback took place in late July/early August…

[moonslav59]

7 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

So your only problem with Pumpsie is that he said "Go Guardians" then? 

I listed that as one example of trolling or I guess "troll-like" behavior. 

I think he enjoys stirring the pot with his extreme negativism. I view that as a form of trolling. I could be wrong. I'm giving my opinion on him just as he opines or implies that I am unbalanced.

I guess if I worded it by saying what he was doing was trolling and not called him a troll, then it wouldn't be "name-calling."

I welcome Guardian fans to this site. I'm glad he, at least, admitted it.

 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

5 minutes ago, notin said:

Of course his premise was the Sox have a long history of choking “down the stretch.”  The 1986 team made it all the way to Game 7 of the World Series, and while Game 6 of that series fell apart, let’s not forget that team had an equally impressive comeback from the brink in the ALCS.

Oh and that was also 39 years ago.  I would bet not a single person affiliated with the team then is still in the organization, including hot dog vendors.  Might as well lead with “This team choked when Pesky held the ball in ‘46 and THEY’RE DOING IT AGAIN!! Same story every 79 years!!!”

Gedman's still a coach in Woo... but let's even stop the talk that this team is similar to the 2021 winners.

I know the '21s were hit hard by Covid, and still made the postseason with benchwarmers and role players, but that club also had Devers 38 HRs, Renfroe 31, JD 28, Dalbec 25 (as many as '25 leader Story), Bogey 23, and Kike 20 (5 more in the playoffs), not to mention Schwarber, who swatted 10 in 51 total games.

What current slug (ger) is going to crank 3 homers on the last weekend vs. Detroit like Raffy did to win the last two games in Washington in '21?

[moonslav59]

3 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

They were a factor, but it's going to be an expected factor on the pitching side here on out. Sox will need to plan for it. Can't expect pitching health if guys are ramping up velos to career highs up and down the system.

IMO, they planned for it better than all or 95% of all teams.

We had 12 decent names as rotation choices, last winter, and that's not even counting Tolle or early- Whitlock or Wink.

We traded Priester and added Harrison & May.

[moonslav59]

3 minutes ago, notin said:

I agree.

One problem I have is people refuse to differentiate between a team choking and another team gettting insanely hot.  The 1978 team won 99 games!! Since 1947, only the 2018 team has won more games.  And it was the Red Sox who won “down the stretch” to force game 163 while the Yankees lost.

But the Yankees played .750 baseball for over 3 months that year, which is an insanely hot pace for an insanely long time.  The bulk of that comeback took place in late July/early August…

Nope: we choked and are floppers. That 1978 team dictates who the 2025 is and will be.

(This should be in green.)

[notin]

9 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

Gedman's still a coach in Woo... but let's even stop the talk that this team is similar to the 2021 winners.

I know the '21s were hit hard by Covid, and still made the postseason with benchwarmers and role players, but that club also had Devers 38 HRs, Renfroe 31, JD 28, Dalbec 25 (as many as '25 leader Story), Bogey 23, and Kike 20 (5 more in the playoffs), not to mention Schwarber, who swatted 10 in 51 total games.

What current slug (ger) is going to crank 3 homers on the last weekend vs. Detroit like Raffy did to win the last two games in Washington in '21?

I would only consider the 2011 team to be chokers.  Although a more realistic label might be “quitters”…

[notin]

11 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

Gedman's still a coach in Woo... but let's even stop the talk that this team is similar to the 2021 winners.

I know the '21s were hit hard by Covid, and still made the postseason with benchwarmers and role players, but that club also had Devers 38 HRs, Renfroe 31, JD 28, Dalbec 25 (as many as '25 leader Story), Bogey 23, and Kike 20 (5 more in the playoffs), not to mention Schwarber, who swatted 10 in 51 total games.

What current slug (ger) is going to crank 3 homers on the last weekend vs. Detroit like Raffy did to win the last two games in Washington in '21?

Oh and to answer your question, it’s going to be Yoshida who smacks the necessary home runs, just to further complicate releasing him this off-season..

[moonslav59]

Just now, notin said:

I would only consider the 2011 team to be chokers.  Although a more realistic label might be “quitters”…

That seems about right.

The othe rthing is to assume that teams today are carrying on the tradition or that is something deeply imbedded in our system. Like we have a knack for acquiring chokers and or developing players into chokers through about a dozen managers and GMs.

[Old Red]

36 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Craig traded away Devers and said "we'll be buying at the deadline, we'll win more games going forward." They had already called up Anthony when they traded Devers. There was a path to keeping them both. The org just couldn't work it out. The team would have been better this year if they had Devers. They traded Devers for Harrison and some garbage. At the deadline, they were definitely NOT buyers. They didn't improve themselves. Breslow said they would, but they didn't and it's not fair to say "it was a seller's market" because IT ALWAYS IS A SELLER'S MARKET AT THE DEADLINE. People started falling all over themselves when Lowe had a few good games and how shrewd Breslow was for picking him up. Be real. He was a DFA'd player and is continuing to play like one. 

I would say this sums up things pretty well. Lowe just fell into the Red Sox lap, so it wasn’t like Brez was beating down the bushes out looking for him. It was Brez who couldn’t work it out with Raffy, and I don’t believe no one else, and I agree the Red Sox would have been better off this year by keeping him.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

2 minutes ago, notin said:

I would only consider the 2011 team to be chokers.  Although a more realistic label might be “quitters”…

It's not their fault -- their bellies were so bloated from fried chicken battered in flour, MSG, and 11 herbs and spices, not to mention Charles River Light, that they couldn't get out of their own way.

[notin]

17 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

They were a factor, but it's going to be an expected factor on the pitching side here on out. Sox will need to plan for it. Can't expect pitching health if guys are ramping up velos to career highs up and down the system.

There are a lot of internal options that just don't have a history of staying healthy (Casas, Mayer, Abreu). Continuing to rely on them is foolish. The reason Cora loves Duran is that he posts. Sox need guys that can post and less guys in the trainer's room. This is why I wouldn't re-sign Bregman. He's just not going to be reliable going forward and you can only carry so many MLB guys on your 40 man roster.

Maybe the Sox need to start listening to me when o say “put Fitts in the bullpen!”  Just like I did with Whitlock as the Sox were repeatedly trying to square peg him into the rotation.

I think I’m going to update my resume for that GM position.  Anyone want to “vouch” for the work I did getting the Padres bullpen back in shape?  Or should I use a lower profile team like the Nats or Royals?

[vegasbob]

1 hour ago, mvp 78 said:

Schiraldi choked then Stanley Steamer choked.

If BB had fielded the ball cleanly, Mookie still gets a single. 

A  correct summary of what actually  happened.  Schiraldi and Stanley were the equivalent of Wilson and Weissert recently.

But that was Game 6. Sox still had 27 outs to prevail and failed to do so.

[drewski6]

1 hour ago, mvp 78 said:

Dinosaur Jr album cover.

I feel the pain of everyone, yet I feel nothing

[FredLynn]

18 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Nope: we choked and are floppers. That 1978 team dictates who the 2025 is and will be.

(This should be in green.)

We are choking right now! At one point we were shoe ins for the playoffs. Now we have to play three more tough series, two against division leaders. While we choke the season away (again) the Guardians have won 7 in a row. THEY deserve to be in, not us. We are sleep walking to end the season as we frequently do and THEY are putting in the effort to show THEY want it. And they deserve it.

[drewski6]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

Hid biggest beef seems to be how little Brez did at the deadline, then say "GO Guardians" - the team that was sellers at the deadline and says "They deserve it."

Hes just not following the guardians closely.

[drewski6]

51 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Ok? The org's push towards velo is going to get pitchers injured more often than in other orgs. Mayer is always injured and can't be relied on. Casas was injured very early in the season and wasn't replaced for a long time. Abreu has a history of nagging injuries. Bregman is older and has had leg injuries before. The only injury that I would point to as being unexpected is Roman Anthony. 

And if you are in a position where you are relying on a 21 yr old rookie, you already failed.

[drewski6]

45 minutes ago, notin said:

Of course his premise was the Sox have a long history of choking “down the stretch.”  The 1986 team made it all the way to Game 7 of the World Series, and while Game 6 of that series fell apart, let’s not forget that team had an equally impressive comeback from the brink in the ALCS.

Oh and that was also 39 years ago.  I would bet not a single person affiliated with the team then is still in the organization, including hot dog vendors.  Might as well lead with “This team choked when Pesky held the ball in ‘46 and THEY’RE DOING IT AGAIN!! Same story every 79 years!!!”

No we're saying the roster on the hole should have been stronger.  The injuries - Ive seen worse years.  2 rookies a few pitchers who we knew were likely to get hurt coming into the year, sure bregmans injury hurt, but thats one dude.  

[FredLynn]

4 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

Hes just not following the guardians closely.

I know they have won 7 in a row and just swept the Tigers. They at least seem to be trying rather than doing a good imitation of the "Walking Dead".

[mvp 78]

31 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

We traded Priester and added Harrison & May.

Ewww

[drewski6]

31 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

Gedman's still a coach in Woo... but let's even stop the talk that this team is similar to the 2021 winners.

I know the '21s were hit hard by Covid, and still made the postseason with benchwarmers and role players, but that club also had Devers 38 HRs, Renfroe 31, JD 28, Dalbec 25 (as many as '25 leader Story), Bogey 23, and Kike 20 (5 more in the playoffs), not to mention Schwarber, who swatted 10 in 51 total games.

What current slug (ger) is going to crank 3 homers on the last weekend vs. Detroit like Raffy did to win the last two games in Washington in '21?

Right, you two are agreeing.  This team did not choke.  This team was not deep enough with the bats to enter the season. THen they traded Devers without replacing him and thought the rookies would carry us and that usually doesnt go well.  Choke implies playing down. I think this team is who they are, at present.  Too many noodle-bats, carried by some better than expected stretches.

I wouldnt say this is a choke job. I would say this is water finding its level (mediocre)

[notin]

6 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

I know they have won 7 in a row and just swept the Tigers. They at least seem to be trying rather than doing a good imitation of the "Walking Dead".

Maybe because they’re not left with Hamilton, Eaton, Refsnyder, etc. every night.

[notin]

12 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

And if you are in a position where you are relying on a 21 yr old rookie, you already failed.

Even if said rookie was clearly making an impact?

[mvp 78]

5 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

And if you are in a position where you are relying on a 21 yr old rookie, you already failed.

The whole organization was relying on the development of Roman Anthony and Marcelo Mayer for years. If that's your take, that's your take. They should have relied on Roman from Opening Day on. 

For the time he was active, he was a top 20 hitter in MLB. 

17th fWAR

8th in OBP

21st in Runs

20th BB%

6th in Hard Hit %

5th in EV

 

[drewski6]

Just now, notin said:

Even if said rookie was clearly making an impact?

Correct.  If you have a rookie making an impact, you add because you have a pleasant surprise and your window has opened sooner than you expected. So time to fortify.

You dont go , well yay, a couple of people doing better than we thought.  TIme to take the foot off the gas

[mvp 78]

2 minutes ago, notin said:

Maybe because they’re not left with Hamilton, Eaton, Refsnyder, etc. every night.

Eaton 1018 OPS in Sept. He's not the problem.

Refsnyder 880 OPS in Sept. He's been good too.