Red Sox (Buehler) vs Phillies (Wheeler): 7/21/25, 6:45pm

[FredLynn]

14 minutes ago, Maxbialystock said:

Rookie mistakes!!!!?????  The guy has the best catcher DWAR in MLB.  Do you seriously think he is unaware of the passed balls and catcher interferences?  

Abreu had 2 dingers Sunday and tonight was hitless with 2 K's.  That's baseball.  

Its been a recurring problem with him (the catchers interference). He needs some friendly instruction from someone who knows the game better than he does-Varitek.

[Maxbialystock]

My game assessment was terrible because in retrospect I think this was one of the Sox best games this season even though they lost.  They were going against not only a Phillies team that wins 2/3 of their games at home, but against the best righty starter in MLB. 

The Sox should have been killed, but instead Duran got that solo dinger in the 1st and later Story tied it at 2 in the 6th.  Buehler had one of the best Sox starts this season--7 IP (at Philly against a lineup ranked 12th in MLB in runs scored).  

I would also like to heavily discount the catcher interference in the 10th.  It probably was, but that's because the rules on catcher interference heavily favor the hitter.  Plus I honestly don't think Hicks was going to get out of the bases loaded and no outs jam in the 10th.  

 

[Maxbialystock]

7 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

Its been a recurring problem with him (the catchers interference). He needs some friendly instruction from someone who knows the game better than he does-Varitek.

Meh.  The rules heavily favor the hitter on catcher interference.  Plus catchers are expected to frame pitches which sometimes includes pushing the mitt forward.  

Besides, there is no way Hicks was going to get out of the jam with 3 on and no one out in the 10th.  

[Maxbialystock]

57 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

What a bunch of bums!

Actually, no.  It was supposed to be a one-sided win by the Phillies, given Buehler vs. the best righty starter in MLB.  Instead it went to 10 innings and was exciting from start to finish.  

[Maxbialystock]

59 minutes ago, Jasonbay44 said:

Dumbest way to lose

Actually, it was euthanasia.  Hicks had already forfeited the game by walking the first batter and then throwing a wild pitch to put runners on 2d and 3d with no one out.  

[Maxbialystock]

15 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

Its been a recurring problem with him (the catchers interference). He needs some friendly instruction from someone who knows the game better than he does-Varitek.

Right.  I'm positive that up to know Tek has never even talked to Navarez about catching techniques.  I mean, why should he?  

[moonslav59]

2 hours ago, FredLynn said:

Rafaela really isn’t very good. By the end of the year everyone will see it. He strikes out on a ball two feet outside 

What will his season ending OPS be?

Or, what will his OPS be from today to the season end?

[harmony]

1 hour ago, Maxbialystock said:

I thought both Duran and Anthony decided which pitches to swing at before they were thrown.  Really lousy at bats.  

Even productive MLB hitters will occasionally don the Golden Sombrero worn Monday evening by Roman Anthony.

[Maxbialystock]

1 hour ago, SPLENDIDSPLINTER said:

Because this team continues to make stupid mistakes and no players are ever held accountable so the mistakes continue. He sux as a manager.

Wrong game, buster.  The team as a whole far surpassed what anyone of us expected.  They were going against a Phillies team that wins 2/3 of their home games and tonight their starter was the best righty starter in MLB.   The Sox should have been killed, but took it to the 10th inning thanks to some good defense, an absolutely spectacular start (7 IP, 1 ER) by Buehler, and rbi's by Duran and Story.  

As it turned out, the game was over when the Sox failed to score in the top of the 10th, followed by Hicks walking the first batter and throwing a WP to put runners on 2d and 3d with no outs.  Narvaez interference just ended the game before Hicks could throw it away.  

Hold Narvaez accountable???!!!  He has the best DWAR in MLB for a catcher.  He deserves only support from his manager.  

 

[Maxbialystock]

2 minutes ago, harmony said:

Even productive MLB hitters will occasionally don the Golden Sombrero worn Monday evening by Roman Anthony.

Agree completely  Anthony has been terrific overall.  And Duran had the leadoff dinger, which I of course ignored.  

[FredLynn]

15 minutes ago, Maxbialystock said:

Right.  I'm positive that up to know Tek has never even talked to Navarez about catching techniques.  I mean, why should he?  

Maybe he has. But obviously it didn’t sink in yet. Narvaez is a rookie and unless his mistakes are corrected he’ll continue to make them. Fortunately we have one of the best (retired) catchers available to teach him the ropes. Not to take advantage of Teks knowledge would be stupid.

[FredLynn]

10 minutes ago, Maxbialystock said:

Wrong game, buster.  The team as a whole far surpassed what anyone of us expected.  They were going against a Phillies team that wins 2/3 of their home games and tonight their starter was the best righty starter in MLB.   The Sox should have been killed, but took it to the 10th inning thanks to some good defense, an absolutely spectacular start (7 IP, 1 ER) by Buehler, and rbi's by Duran and Story.  

As it turned out, the game was over when the Sox failed to score in the top of the 10th, followed by Hicks walking the first batter and throwing a WP to put runners on 2d and 3d with no outs.  Narvaez interference just ended the game before Hicks could throw it away.  

Hold Narvaez accountable???!!!  He has the best DWAR in MLB for a catcher.  He deserves only support from his manager.  

 

“The team as a whole far surpassed what anyone of us expected. ”

I don’t know what YOU expected but I know this: YOU only speak for YOU”. I speak for me alone and I expected a better performance this year than the flops have so far demonstrated. They are UNDERPERFORMING imo. Last year they didn’t have the personnel to win. They improved in that regard and yet they STILL can’t get the job done.

[Maxbialystock]

1 minute ago, FredLynn said:

Maybe he has. But obviously it didn’t sink in yet. Narvaez is a rookie and unless his mistakes are corrected he’ll continue to make them. Fortunately we have one of the best (retired) catchers available to teach him the ropes. Not to take advantage of Teks knowledge would be stupid.

Of course he has been coached/tutored by Tek.   Narvaez might be a rookie, but he's been a professional catcher for 10 freaking seasons.   Plus he has the highest catcher DWAR in MLB.  He is not a reclamation project.  But he is human, which means he will make mistakes.  Tonight they hurt.  

[harmony]

3 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

“The team as a whole far surpassed what anyone of us expected. ”

I don’t know what YOU expected but I know this: YOU only speak for YOU”. I speak for me alone and I expected a better performance this year than the flops have so far demonstrated. They are UNDERPERFORMING imo. Last year they didn’t have the personnel to win. They improved in that regard and yet they STILL can’t get the job done.

FWIW entering the season FanGraphs gave the Red Sox a 56.2 percent chance of advancing to the postseason:

https://www.fangraphs.com/standings/playoff-odds?date=2025-03-17&dateDelta=

Monday evening FanGraphs gaves the Sox a 44.4 chance of advancing to the postseason:

https://www.fangraphs.com/standings/playoff-odds

[Maxbialystock]

3 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

“The team as a whole far surpassed what anyone of us expected. ”

I don’t know what YOU expected but I know this: YOU only speak for YOU”. I speak for me alone and I expected a better performance this year than the flops have so far demonstrated. They are UNDERPERFORMING imo. Last year they didn’t have the personnel to win. They improved in that regard and yet they STILL can’t get the job done.

I was referring to tonight's game, not the season.  It's pretty hard to make a case the Sox have surpassed our expectations for this season.

That said, I do like this team right now and tonight was an example of why,  The Sox should have had no chance in this game with Buehler going against Wheeler.  I expected something like 6-0, Philly.  

[FredLynn]

28 minutes ago, harmony said:

FWIW entering the season FanGraphs gave the Red Sox a 56.2 percent chance of advancing to the postseason:

https://www.fangraphs.com/standings/playoff-odds?date=2025-03-17&dateDelta=

Monday evening FanGraphs gaves the Sox a 44.4 chance of advancing to the postseason:

https://www.fangraphs.com/standings/playoff-odds

So to date it’s fair to say that they have underperformed.

[FredLynn]

25 minutes ago, Maxbialystock said:

I was referring to tonight's game, not the season.  It's pretty hard to make a case the Sox have surpassed our expectations for this season.

That said, I do like this team right now and tonight was an example of why,  The Sox should have had no chance in this game with Buehler going against Wheeler.  I expected something like 6-0, Philly.  

Tonight’s game?

I agree. I didn’t expect it to be competitive.

[FredLynn]

33 minutes ago, Maxbialystock said:

Of course he has been coached/tutored by Tek.   Narvaez might be a rookie, but he's been a professional catcher for 10 freaking seasons.   Plus he has the highest catcher DWAR in MLB.  He is not a reclamation project.  But he is human, which means he will make mistakes.  Tonight they hurt.  

Obviously he could benefit with more lessons. Playing in the minors isn’t the same as in the ML. Tek was an excellent major league catcher. Narvaez may be one eventually but so far he hasn’t earned that label.

[FredLynn]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

What will his season ending OPS be?

Or, what will his OPS be from today to the season end?

My guess is that at the end of the year his OPS will be in the .700 range. And he still won’t learn plate discipline. It will be his Armageddon and his career won’t be a long one because of this defect.

[Maxbialystock]

2 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

Obviously he could benefit with more lessons. Playing in the minors isn’t the same as in the ML. Tek was an excellent major league catcher. Narvaez may be one eventually but so far he hasn’t earned that label.

I don't think it's so obvious.  FWIW, Tek's highest DWAR for a season was +1.4.  Right now Narvaez's is +1.8, so he must be doing something right.  Tek never got a gold glove award.  

[FredLynn]

8 minutes ago, Maxbialystock said:

I don't think it's so obvious.  FWIW, Tek's highest DWAR for a season was +1.4.  Right now Narvaez's is +1.8, so he must be doing something right.  Tek never got a gold glove award.  

Are you foolishly claiming that Narvaez couldn’t benefit from the advice from a catcher with 14 years of major league experience?

Narvaez is a ROOKIE and he’s making rookie mistakes. Tek needs to take him aside and teach him the finer points of playing the position. He clearly needs it.

[Jasonbay44]

Narvaez was plays the catcher position very well. It was a kinda ******** interference call and there wasn’t a whole lot he could do there.

He leads all catchers in DWAR, runs saved and caught stealing. He’s very good. 

Hicks wasn’t getting out of that inning anyway, he isn’t good. 

[vegasbob]

I watched the game more closely than usual, avoiding commenting here .

But, if you can't see what has happened since the 10 game streak then you can continue to squabble over the fine points.    

Several players took a massive step back from their disciplines and habits pre-A-S break and the results are showing.    Some are playing like it's April and early.  

These type losses make Breslow's decisions all the harder because short of a quick turnaround the next 8 games will lead to a weak TDL build up of the team.

[FredLynn]

20 minutes ago, Jasonbay44 said:

Narvaez was plays the catcher position very well. It was a kinda ******** interference call and there wasn’t a whole lot he could do there.

He leads all catchers in DWAR, runs saved and caught stealing. He’s very good. 

Hicks wasn’t getting out of that inning anyway, he isn’t good. 

We were going to lose as soon as we didn’t score in the top of the tenth.

But it’s foolish to think that a rookie catcher has nothing to learn from a very good 14 year veteran. Thinks like blocking bad pitches and avoiding catcher interference….

[harmony]

2 hours ago, Maxbialystock said:

Meh.  The rules heavily favor the hitter on catcher interference.  Plus catchers are expected to frame pitches which sometimes includes pushing the mitt forward.  

Besides, there is no way Hicks was going to get out of the jam with 3 on and no one out in the 10th.  

After Jordan Hicks intentionally walked Max Kepler to load the bases with no outs in the bottom of the 10th, Philadelphia had a win probability of 93.1 percent:

https://www.mlb.com/gameday/red-sox-vs-phillies/2025/07/21/777063/final/summary/all

Nevertheless, the walkoff ending was bizarre.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

6 minutes ago, harmony said:

After Jordan Hicks intentionally walked Max Kepler to load the bases with no outs in the bottom of the 10th, Philadelphia had a win probability of 93.1 percent:

https://www.mlb.com/gameday/red-sox-vs-phillies/2025/07/21/777063/final/summary/all

Nevertheless, the walkoff ending was bizarre.

The Sox lead MLB in inventive ways to lose baseball games.

[tawest]

1-10 with runners in scoring position and giving up 2 unearned runs isn't going to win you too many games. Too bad, because this was the best Buehler has pitched all year and really should have left the game in the lead.

Hicks may cancel out the benefit of unloading #11. He hasn't shown me anything yet.

[oldtimer]

Still it is a crazy rule where a ball well out of strike zone and away from the batter can qualify for batter interference. 

[Bellhorn04]

10 hours ago, SPLENDIDSPLINTER said:

Because this team continues to make stupid mistakes and no players are ever held accountable so the mistakes continue. He sux as a manager.

You didn't like Farrell or Francona as managers either.  Seems like you just don't like managers. 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Boston's crack analytics department was willing to lose a game in the experiment to see if it worked, but starting today, Fatse and his staff will be conducting new BP in the cage, setting up a tee behind hitters...

... but instead of a baseball, they will affix a catcher's mitt on top for target practice.

"We're 0 and 7 on the road in extra innings," said somebody, "... if we could just win 3 1/2 of those, we'd be .500 plating ghosts of TV viewers who died watching too many corpses K on check-the-check Strike 3s."