It's Time to Can Cora

[moonslav59]

31 minutes ago, Kimmi said:

I blame Devers for selling out his teammates.  That was wrong, regardless of the circumstances leading up to it.

I am happy with the direction the team has taken also.  Even if there had been no controversy, I am relieved to be rid of Devers' contract.  Let's see if the FO makes good on its word to "repurpose" some of that money, beyond extending some of their young players.

If we never spend his money, the "ridding of the contract" benefits only JH.

[Kimmi]

10 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

There were no complaints about Devers's attitude from guys inside the clubhouse. The only people complaining are the FO and people online. 

The players didn't openly complain.  I think there was some tension inside the clubhouse, or some discomfort, at the very least.  

[moonslav59]

Just now, Kimmi said:

The players didn't openly complain.  I think there was some tension inside the clubhouse, or some discomfort, at the very least.  

There was also no player complaints after we traded our best hitter in the middle of the season.

[Kimmi]

5 minutes ago, Old Red said:

It was a personality clash between Raffy, and Brez, and Brez didn’t like Raffy telling him to do his job, and I don’t think there was anymore to it than that.

Breslow was definitely at fault as well.  

[Bellhorn04]

5 minutes ago, Old Red said:

It was a personality clash between Raffy, and Brez, and Brez didn’t like Raffy telling him to do his job, and I don’t think there was anymore to it than that.

Personally I don't think a player should be publicly dressing down the CBO like that.  It's embarrassing to the team.  That didn't impress me at all.  I thought it was totally immature,  I think Raffy came off as immature in the whole deal.

[Kimmi]

3 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

If we never spend his money, the "ridding of the contract" benefits only JH.

100%.  

I'm not looking to sign another huge contract player like Devers, but one can get some good quality players on smaller contracts with that kind of money.

[Kimmi]

3 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

There was also no player complaints after we traded our best hitter in the middle of the season.

Exactly.

[Bellhorn04]

5 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

If we never spend his money, the "ridding of the contract" benefits only JH.

They extended Anthony after trading Devers.  It's a matter of opinion whether there was a direct connection between the two things.

[moonslav59]

16 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

They extended Anthony after trading Devers.  It's a matter of opinion whether there was a direct connection between the two things.

I get that, but I think it would be a sad fact to find out we would not have extended Anthony but for the Devers trade and JH calls it even. One could also say the Devers money pays for the Crochet extension, despite that happening before the trade.

Anthony + Campbell costs $23.75M AAV until 2033 or 2034. I'd hate to think JH call that a push and has no further spending plans based on the freed up Devers money.

If he spends up to the tax line and goes over it, every so often, I guess we can assume he spent it or most of it.

[Old Red]

2 hours ago, Kimmi said:

It was reporters.  I don't know whether Cora ever asked him to move, but I'm sure there was discussion about it.  At any rate, I don't think that insinuating that you're not willing to move is the appropriate response regardless of whether you're asked by reporters or by the manager.

I don’t think, and definitely not sure there was any discussion whatsoever between Cora, and Bogey about Bogey moving off SS to accommodate Story. Cora is pretty loyal to his players, and especially Bogey, and Bogey was the Red Sox SS, and i wouldn’t blame Bogey one bit for not even wanting to move to another position for an outsider. No discussion whatsoever IMO.

[Old Red]

2 hours ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Personally I don't think a player should be publicly dressing down the CBO like that.  It's embarrassing to the team.  That didn't impress me at all.  I thought it was totally immature,  I think Raffy came off as immature in the whole deal.

Being immature by Raffy I agree with, but that doesn’t make Raffy a bad person. On the other hand Brez didn’t come across  as to good either, and the whole situation was embarrassing to the team, and i don’t think that impressed anyone including JH.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

2 hours ago, Old Red said:

It was a personality clash between Raffy, and Brez, and Brez didn’t like Raffy telling him to do his job, and I don’t think there was anymore to it than that.

Remember, Raffy (through the media) also told Breslow to do his job and fortify the pitching staff at the 2024 trade deadline.

Breslow fired a guy who wasn't making $300 million for calling him a f***ing stiff; does anyone think he forgot what Raffy said in Brez' first summer as CBO?

[moonslav59]

"Can Cora."

Geeesh.

[Old Red]

3 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

There was also no player complaints after we traded our best hitter in the middle of the season.

Did you expect one? There are a lot of young players on the team. Bregman just got there, and took Raffy’s job, and Story hadn’t been much involved the past few years, so who was going to speak up. Casas spoke up, and got talked to about it, so it doesn’t surprise me at all that no one spoke up, and doesn’t really mean anything IMO.

[moonslav59]

31 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Did you expect one? There are a lot of young players on the team. Bregman just got there, and took Raffy’s job, and Story hadn’t been much involved the past few years, so who was going to speak up. Casas spoke up, and got talked to about it, so it doesn’t surprise me at all that no one spoke up, and doesn’t really mean anything IMO.

Well, usually when a team's best batter for the last 5 years is traded, you hear players speak up in praise, best wishes and sometimes in confusion and with regret. At times, someone might speak out in anger or with concern about the direction the team is taking, especially during a season that still had promise for going farther that we've gone in years.

I will say I'm surprised we didn't hear more "We're gonna miss him" talk. Maybe it doesn't mean anything, but it did seem pretty clear nobody went out of their way to say how much they were going to miss him or wonder what the team was doing. I'm not trying to read much into this, but I did find it a bit interesting.

[Old Red]

50 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Well, usually when a team's best batter for the last 5 years is traded, you hear players speak up in praise, best wishes and sometimes in confusion and with regret. At times, someone might speak out in anger or with concern about the direction the team is taking, especially during a season that still had promise for going farther that we've gone in years.

I will say I'm surprised we didn't hear more "We're gonna miss him" talk. Maybe it doesn't mean anything, but it did seem pretty clear nobody went out of their way to say how much they were going to miss him or wonder what the team was doing. I'm not trying to read much into this, but I did find it a bit interesting.

It always amazes me when different people can look at the same situation, and read it completely differently. I do it myself. Also to see  different things to fit their narrative, and can go to different lengths to do so like players speaking up, or not speaking up. I could be completely wrong about all this, but everyone seems to have an opinion, and I know mine is in the vast minority. Casas spoke up, and most likely got reprimanded, and maybe no one else dared to speak up. Then again you may be right that no one was going to miss him. Could be one, or both ways at the same time.

 

[moonslav59]

34 minutes ago, Old Red said:

It always amazes me when different people can look at the same situation, and read it completely differently. I do it myself. Also to see  different things to fit their narrative, and can go to different lengths to do so like players speaking up, or not speaking up. I could be completely wrong about all this, but everyone seems to have an opinion, and I know mine is in the vast minority. Casas spoke up, and most likely got reprimanded, and maybe no one else dared to speak up. Then again you may be right that no one was going to miss him. Could be one, or both ways at the same time.

 

I'm not sure what "fits my narrative" means since I'm not trying to blame anyone singularly. I'm the guy you keep saying everyone was saying "Devers Forevers." I didnt want him traded. I wasnt happy we traded him. If anything, making Devers out to be the bad guy goes against my narrative.

I think everyone missed his offense but were glad the drama was over. It doesn't matter who caused the drama. It was all 3, I guess.

[Deja Doh]

Casas didn't want to lose his job to Devers.

2 hours ago, Old Red said:

Did you expect one? There are a lot of young players on the team. Bregman just got there, and took Raffy’s job, and Story hadn’t been much involved the past few years, so who was going to speak up. Casas spoke up, and got talked to about it, so it doesn’t surprise me at all that no one spoke up, and doesn’t really mean anything IMO.

 

[Old Red]

11 minutes ago, Deja Doh said:

Casas didn't want to lose his job to Devers.

 

I think Casas had a better chance of being traded, which supposedly the Red Sox tried to do last offseason with Seattle than losing his 1B job to Raffy. If Casas isn’t injured last year I don’t believe there would have been any talk of Raffy at 1B unless Casas completely sucked, and his usual slow start lasted all year.

[notin]

1 hour ago, Old Red said:

It always amazes me when different people can look at the same situation, and read it completely differently. I do it myself. Also to see  different things to fit their narrative, and can go to different lengths to do so like players speaking up, or not speaking up. I could be completely wrong about all this, but everyone seems to have an opinion, and I know mine is in the vast minority. Casas spoke up, and most likely got reprimanded, and maybe no one else dared to speak up. Then again you may be right that no one was going to miss him. Could be one, or both ways at the same time.

 

That’s because is was all Casas’ fault!! If he knew how to run to first without crippling himself!
 

(Let’s see who takes this accusation seriously.)

[Yaz Fan Since 67]

It was my understanding that a player went to management and said he gots to go.  I always suspected Bregman, it had to be a player with status.  

As for Cora I honestly don't know what more fans expected from this roster.  The lineup was weak and full of below average hitters, after the trade they really didn't have one stick that other teams feared. Then of course the defense which has been atrocious for several seasons.  He got what he could out of a marginal and injured pitching staff.  

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Should Albacora be canned in water or oil?

[mvp 78]

2 hours ago, Yaz Fan Since 67 said:

It was my understanding that a player went to management and said he gots to go.  I always suspected Bregman, it had to be a player with status.  

The source "you made it up." 

[Bellhorn04]

2 hours ago, Yaz Fan Since 67 said:

It was my understanding that a player went to management and said he gots to go.  I always suspected Bregman, it had to be a player with status.  

As for Cora I honestly don't know what more fans expected from this roster.  The lineup was weak and full of below average hitters, after the trade they really didn't have one stick that other teams feared. Then of course the defense which has been atrocious for several seasons.  He got what he could out of a marginal and injured pitching staff.  

I can't see how Bregman would have much status, as a newly acquired player with an opt-out at the end of the season.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

2 hours ago, Yaz Fan Since 67 said:

As for Cora I honestly don't know what more fans expected from this roster.  The lineup was weak and full of below average hitters, after the trade they really didn't have one stick that other teams feared. Then of course the defense which has been atrocious for several seasons.  He got what he could out of a marginal and injured pitching staff.  

Ownership is also getting what it can out of a marginal coaching staff -- from third-base coaches who can't wave home baserunners to batting coaches who don't teach making contact.

Cora is well-paid for a manager, but it's cheaper to let him deal with uniformed personnel that for the most part doesn't command top industry dollars.

AC's best value is more to inspire mediocre rosters to the playoffs, like in '21 or '25, than to command powerhouse clubs like '18, where he can sit back and tape photos of winners on his office wall.

[moonslav59]

3 hours ago, Yaz Fan Since 67 said:

It was my understanding that a player went to management and said he gots to go.  I always suspected Bregman, it had to be a player with status.  

As for Cora I honestly don't know what more fans expected from this roster.  The lineup was weak and full of below average hitters, after the trade they really didn't have one stick that other teams feared. Then of course the defense which has been atrocious for several seasons.  He got what he could out of a marginal and injured pitching staff.  

Indeed, then his boss trades away the only batter other teams did fear.

Add to that the fact that he lost over 162 possible GSd from his #2 through #12 rotation pitchers.

33 Crawford

33 Sandoval

24 Houck

7 Gio

5 Bello

20+ Dobbins

10+ Fitts & Criswell

Maybe 20+ from Priester (traded) and Perales (IL)

And, this may be the biggest question: How many had faith in our pen going into 2025?

[Yaz Fan Since 67]

55 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

The source "you made it up." 

I was accused of this when I posted that I recalled some thought we did OK in the Sale trade.  Then I provided proof and suddenly nobody wanted to talk about that anymore.

I'm not bothering this time, I don't remember where I heard or read it.  But I assure you I would never just make s*** up.  

[drewski6]

19 hours ago, Kimmi said:

We'll have no way of ever knowing, but I'm not sure that the team with Devers at DH would have been better than the team with no Devers.  We might still be playing now, but we might just as easily not have made the playoffs.  On paper, sure, Devers made the team better offensively.  But I don't think you can discount the impact of the trade on the atmosphere inside the clubhouse.

 

singles hitter batting clean-up.

[drewski6]

19 hours ago, Bellhorn04 said:

In my opinion if you win multiple championships that kind of exempts you from being a bad teammate.  If the objective is to win rings how can Mike Jordan be a bad teammate?  Jordan's teammates made a lot more money because of him and they have rings.  Maybe an unlikeable teammate, but that's a different thing.

Mike Jordan use to hustle his teammates. He was a millionaire, they were rookies making very little, and he would stiff em with bills and force them to play him at golf for money or he would have them kicked off the team.  I think you can win a championship and still be a bad teammate.

[mvp 78]

5 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

Mike Jordan use to hustle his teammates. He was a millionaire, they were rookies making very little, and he would stiff em with bills and force them to play him at golf for money or he would have them kicked off the team.  I think you can win a championship and still be a bad teammate.

I looked at listings of "bad teammates" and Kobe was put on almost every one. 🫠