Red Sox (Crochet) vs Yankees (Yarbrough): 6/7/25, 7:35pm

[moonslav59]

26 minutes ago, Maxbialystock said:

Right off the top of my old bald head, I'd say dumping Sale and picking up Giolito are the primary reasons why the Sox didn't make the postseason last year and probably won't this year. 

I've heard all the explanations and excuses, but the fact is that the Braves made Breslow look like an idiot, especially paying Sale's salary when he played for the Braves last season.  Sale is doing pretty well this season--better than anyone on the Sox not named Crochet--but is probably not in the Cy Young hunt.  

The deal backfired, spectacularly, no doubt.

I'm sorry if I don't share in the intense disdain for a GM giving up on a guy who gave us absolutely nothing for 4+ years. Had Sale gotten hurt again, we'd never have heard a peep, and nobody here expected a CYA season from Sale.

The fact that Grissom sucked and sucks didn't help, and the "money saved" was used to pay Gio's deal. All I can say is just about every GM has a deal or two that look awful. Brez has made many deals that looked and still look good and real good. Some others have not worked out, some due to injury and some due to unmet expectations. The bottom line is we are not playing any better. Our record is worse than last year's s***** year. We all see that and feel it.

Are you for firing Brez, after 2 years? Cora, too? (I'm all for showing Kennedy the door. I'm wondering about Bailey and our batting coaches.)

[Old Red]

4 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Wow, I forgot he did that. Thanks for reminding me.

Remind me of the poster who said the worst part of the Sale deal was the money included.

The same one who said that Sale would stay healthy, and have a good year for the Braves? Yes paying all of Sale’s salary last year, and then watching him win a CY was ingenious. Thanks for reminding me.🤮

[Old Red]

2 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

The deal backfired, spectacularly, no doubt.

I'm sorry if I don't share in the intense disdain for a GM giving up on a guy who gave us absolutely nothing for 4+ years. Had Sale gotten hurt again, we'd never have heard a peep, and nobody here expected a CYA season from Sale.

The fact that Grissom sucked and sucks didn't help, and the "money saved" was used to pay Gio's deal. All I can say is just about every GM has a deal or two that look awful. Brez has made many deals that looked and still look good and real good. Some others have not worked out, some due to injury and some due to unmet expectations. The bottom line is we are not playing any better. Our record is worse than last year's s***** year. We all see that and feel it.

Are you for firing Brez, after 2 years? Cora, too? (I'm all for showing Kennedy the door. I'm wondering about Bailey and our batting coaches.)

Not just disdain, but intense disdain. Wow! I was just a Bloom Basher.🤓

[moonslav59]

5 minutes ago, Old Red said:

The same one who said that Sale would stay healthy, and have a good year for the Braves? Yes paying all of Sale’s salary last year, and then watching him win a CY was ingenious. Thanks for reminding me.🤮

Your selective memory is your only true constant. Just like you've always been for moving Devers off 3B. 

LMAO

[moonslav59]

3 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Not just disdain, but intense disdain. Wow! I was just a Bloom Basher.🤓

You don't think saying "Clean house on all of them" is intense disdain?

WOW is right!

[Maxbialystock]

19 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

The deal backfired, spectacularly, no doubt.

I'm sorry if I don't share in the intense disdain for a GM giving up on a guy who gave us absolutely nothing for 4+ years. Had Sale gotten hurt again, we'd never have heard a peep, and nobody here expected a CYA season from Sale.

The fact that Grissom sucked and sucks didn't help, and the "money saved" was used to pay Gio's deal. All I can say is just about every GM has a deal or two that look awful. Brez has made many deals that looked and still look good and real good. Some others have not worked out, some due to injury and some due to unmet expectations. The bottom line is we are not playing any better. Our record is worse than last year's s***** year. We all see that and feel it.

Are you for firing Brez, after 2 years? Cora, too? (I'm all for showing Kennedy the door. I'm wondering about Bailey and our batting coaches.)

I definitely want to keep Cora because he has been far more competent than the dipsticks above him.  

Someone said Breslow will be hard to replace, given JH's reputation at this point.  So I guess I'm OK with that.

I hear you on how everyone on talksox thought dumping Sale was smart, but guess what?  The Braves were a whole lot smarter--and that is unarguable.  

Moreover, I now think that Giolito for Sale is what has prevented the Sox from getting to the postseason last year and probably this year.  To me that's a pretty big deal.  

[Nick]

36 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

The deal backfired, spectacularly, no doubt.

I'm sorry if I don't share in the intense disdain for a GM giving up on a guy who gave us absolutely nothing for 4+ years. Had Sale gotten hurt again, we'd never have heard a peep, and nobody here expected a CYA season from Sale.

The fact that Grissom sucked and sucks didn't help, and the "money saved" was used to pay Gio's deal. All I can say is just about every GM has a deal or two that look awful. Brez has made many deals that looked and still look good and real good. Some others have not worked out, some due to injury and some due to unmet expectations. The bottom line is we are not playing any better. Our record is worse than last year's s***** year. We all see that and feel it.

Are you for firing Brez, after 2 years? Cora, too? (I'm all for showing Kennedy the door. I'm wondering about Bailey and our batting coaches.)

I'm not in favor of firing anyone. Brez did take actions during off season. It's easier to build a team around Crochet, who will be with us for 6 more years beginning in 2026.

But I'm showing my displeasure with the Anthony situation. What's the hold up? You can't continue with the daily dose of he'll be up at some point. 

[Nick]

Did anyone see the video of Narvaez point of view on the ball hit to the right side for a single?

Campbell was frozen. He DID NOT take a false step towards second base. He froze and allowed the ball to go through the infield.

I am glad he's with us. I'm glad that he was extended. 

But, he has been horrendous since April. He can't get the ball in flight. His second hit barely got airborne. Something is amiss. Send him back to AAA and let him work it out. Get his confidence back. If he's not mentally tough to handle that then the entire organization misread him.

[moonslav59]

9 minutes ago, Maxbialystock said:

I definitely want to keep Cora because he has been far more competent than the dipsticks above him.  

Someone said Breslow will be hard to replace, given JH's reputation at this point.  So I guess I'm OK with that.

I hear you on how everyone on talksox thought dumping Sale was smart, but guess what?  The Braves were a whole lot smarter--and that is unarguable.  

Moreover, I now think that Giolito for Sale is what has prevented the Sox from getting to the postseason last year and probably this year.  To me that's a pretty big deal.  

I don't buy the "smarter" argument. There is no way any GM knows a pitcher will stay healthy, Max, and to "know" this after 5 years in a row of lost hope is more luck than smarts.

I do not doubt that we'd be much better with sale over Gio and Grissom, and that is on Brez, but I cannot say Brez was stupid to do the deal, at the time.

I guess that's how we see things differently, and I'm fine with that. 

I was Sale's biggest fan. He was CHRIS "FRAKIN' SALE to me, but nothing about less than 300 IP in 5 lost seasons was encouraging to me. Not the "but he's finally healthy this winter" argument. I remember a stationary bike. Not the "his arm is well rested now" argument. The guy had a 4.16 ERA over those 298 IP, all on a well rested arm.

This is all hindsight wishing and praying, to me. I'm glad Sale regained his form, and BTW, he missed the end of the season, when the Braves needed him most. Let's see if he makes it through this year. Would you bet on 32 GS'd? How about even 28 or 25?

[moonslav59]

13 minutes ago, Nick said:

I'm not firing for anyone. But I'm showing my displeasure with the Anthony situation. What's the hold up? You can't continue with the daily dose of he'll be up at some point. 

Several of us are not for firing anybody, except maybe some coaches under Cora.

I'm upset about Anthony, too, and a few other issues, like how they handled the Devers' position change and the lack of more investment in quality pen arms.

If GMs were fired over 2-3 or even 5-6 significant mistakes (many in hindsight, only) over a 2 year period, we'd have no GM with more than 3 years of tenure.

[Old Red]

Just now, moonslav59 said:

Several of us are not for firing anybody, except maybe some coaches under Cora.

I'm upset about Anthony, too, and a few other issues, like how they handled the Devers' position change and the lack of more investment in quality pen arms.

If GMs were fired over 2-3 or even 5-6 significant mistakes over a 2 year period, we'd have no GM with more than 3 years of tenure.

When you say several of US are not for anybody being fired you are not even talking about a blimp on the radar screen of RSN. Out on many other different venues I visit Cora is getting blamed a lot more than Brez, and the call is getting more frequent, and louder for Cora to go. 

[moonslav59]

2 minutes ago, Old Red said:

When you say several of US are not for anybody being fired you are not even talking about a blimp on the radar screen of RSN. Out on many other different venues I visit Cora is getting blamed a lot more than Brez, and the call is getting more frequent, and louder for Cora to go. 

1. Several is 2 or more people.

2. I could care less about your idea of who RSN is and your opinion on what most or several are saying. You get my opinion wrong 99% of the time, so I'll hardly trust your assessment of a bunch of people's opinions.

3. I never said a lot of people or the majority said or agree with your statement: "Fire the whole bunch of them." I'm not sure what that has to do with more people wanting Cora gone than the "whole bunch," but so what? More people blame Cora more than Brez. That would be a switch from Bloom vs Cora, for sure, but yes more than 1 person is not for firing Cora, at this time. That is what "several" means.

4. Try using a dictionary. They even have sites online that will tell you what words mean. The problem is, they use other words to define what words like "several" means, and you don't know what those words mean, either.

[mvp 78]

3 hours ago, Old Red said:

It’s not wrong if you only care about what’s happening now, and right now the Red Sox are having trouble with starters being able to go 5 innings. Picks, and suspects wouldn’t help right now. As Cora would ask right?

If they had Priester, they’d still be under.500. 

[mvp 78]

2 hours ago, Bellhorn04 said:

As a strategic question, how does coming in in the 4th inning help the struggles vs. lefties?

Do you not know how an opener works after this many years?

[dgalehouse]

Sale is a great pitcher. Possible Hall of Famer. Trading him for a backup infielder , then throwing in 17 million to sweeten the deal,  is not defensible. It was a horrendous trade. One of the all time worst. And I am not anti Breslow. 

[Old Red]

4 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

If they had Priester, they’d still be under.500. 

That’s true, but it’s also true Priester has pitched more innings than  anyone else on the Red Sox outside of Cro Man. I know the BP needs work, but not the amount they are getting. By your analogy the Red Sox are under 500 with Cro Man, so why bother?

[Old Red]

12 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

1. Several is 2 or more people.

2. I could care less about your idea of who RSN is and your opinion on what most or several are saying. You get my opinion wrong 99% of the time, so I'll hardly trust your assessment of a bunch of people's opinions.

3. I never said a lot of people or the majority said or agree with your statement: "Fire the whole bunch of them." I'm not sure what that has to do with more people wanting Cora gone than the "whole bunch," but so what? More people blame Cora more than Brez. That would be a switch from Bloom vs Cora, for sure, but yes more than 1 person is not for firing Cora, at this time. That is what "several" means.

4. Try using a dictionary. They even have sites online that will tell you what words mean. The problem is, they use other words to define what words like "several" means, and you don't know what those words mean, either.

MSNS.👋

[moonslav59]

54 minutes ago, Old Red said:

MSNS.👋

You like running with the projection thing, I see.

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, mvp 78 said:

If they had Priester, they’d still be under.500. 

And he'd likely be demoted like Fitts was.

Last 8 games: yes, all into 5 innings pitched or more, but...

4,54 ERA (4,65 FIP) 

Fitts: 5 GS and 21 IP (4+ IP/GS)

4.71 ERA (5.88 FIP).761 OPSA in 9 GS/42 IP

Career:

Fitts: 3.24 ERA and .684 OPSA

Priester: 5.39 ERA and .793 OPSA in 28 GS and 10 RP games/155 IP (5.16/.819 as SP)

This is pretty close to a non issue, IMO.

[notin]

3 hours ago, Old Red said:

That’s true, but it’s also true Priester has pitched more innings than  anyone else on the Red Sox outside of Cro Man. 

That might be more due to Cora than Priester…

[Maxbialystock]

3 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

I don't buy the "smarter" argument. There is no way any GM knows a pitcher will stay healthy, Max, and to "know" this after 5 years in a row of lost hope is more luck than smarts.

I do not doubt that we'd be much better with sale over Gio and Grissom, and that is on Brez, but I cannot say Brez was stupid to do the deal, at the time.

I guess that's how we see things differently, and I'm fine with that. 

I was Sale's biggest fan. He was CHRIS "FRAKIN' SALE to me, but nothing about less than 300 IP in 5 lost seasons was encouraging to me. Not the "but he's finally healthy this winter" argument. I remember a stationary bike. Not the "his arm is well rested now" argument. The guy had a 4.16 ERA over those 298 IP, all on a well rested arm.

This is all hindsight wishing and praying, to me. I'm glad Sale regained his form, and BTW, he missed the end of the season, when the Braves needed him most. Let's see if he makes it through this year. Would you bet on 32 GS'd? How about even 28 or 25?

Good rejoinder.    Those 4 seasons (I don't count 2020) will cost Sale the HOF.  That's too bad because to me he was the most professional starter I'd seen for the Sox.  He didn't just have great stuff and command.  He stayed focused and was great on defense.    

Yes, I'm guilty of hindsight.  But reverse the roles and assume Breslow picked up a veteran starter who did what Sale did last year (and would still be our 2d best starter this year).  Would we be saying Breslow was just blindly, stupidly lucky?  Heck no.  He would be the genius who singlehandedly made the Sox competitive again.   We already rave about getting Narvaez from the Yankees and picking up two superb players in Breslow and Crochet.  

Instead, we lost Sale, picked up Giolito (for more money), and had lousy pitching last year and worse pitching this year.     

If you want to say the real culprit is JH, I won't disagree.  But JH is also the guy who brought four WS titles to Boston.  

[moonslav59]

4 hours ago, Maxbialystock said:

Good rejoinder.    Those 4 seasons (I don't count 2020) will cost Sale the HOF.  That's too bad because to me he was the most professional starter I'd seen for the Sox.  He didn't just have great stuff and command.  He stayed focused and was great on defense.    

Yes, I'm guilty of hindsight.  But reverse the roles and assume Breslow picked up a veteran starter who did what Sale did last year (and would still be our 2d best starter this year).  Would we be saying Breslow was just blindly, stupidly lucky?  Heck no.  He would be the genius who singlehandedly made the Sox competitive again.   We already rave about getting Narvaez from the Yankees and picking up two superb players in Breslow and Crochet.  

Instead, we lost Sale, picked up Giolito (for more money), and had lousy pitching last year and worse pitching this year.     

If you want to say the real culprit is JH, I won't disagree.  But JH is also the guy who brought four WS titles to Boston.  

I'm all in on bashing Brez for Gio, despite his nice first 19 starts of 2023. When you combine the 3 related events, it does make Brez look stupid, but I can't see it like that:

Sale resurrects himself like it's Easter Sunday.

Giolito sucks badly.

Grissom sucks badly.

Throw in some money on top of it all.

No doubt, Brez has the hindsight king of the big pile of doo-doo award, for these choices, but all had some promise to them, at the time.

If Brez had not struck gold on some other moves, then I could see sharpening the ax, but Crochet, Narvaez, Chapman, Wilson, Bregman (B4 the injury) and even scrubs like Toro have been impressive moves.

[moonslav59]

5 hours ago, Maxbialystock said:

If you want to say the real culprit is JH, I won't disagree.  But JH is also the guy who brought four WS titles to Boston.  

I try to avoid blaming one guy for anything, and I sometimes think our society focuses on blame, too much, but I'd be a hypocrite, if I said we should stop doing it.

JH was a big reason we broke the curse. He will always hold that honor, in my mind. The three that followed were icing on the cake- all under 3 different GMs. The owner has to get some credit, when you see that happen.

That does not take him off the hook for the here and now, although it does now appear that he may be back to his spending in cycles way. That was a long down cycle, but the farm and foundation looks solid and pretty young, so if spending was ever going to happen, again, it was for 2025 and going forward. Let's see if we spend large at the deadline and.or next winter.

[Bellhorn04]

15 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

Do you not know how an opener works after this many years?

He came in in the 4th inning both times.  That's a piggyback.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mvp 78]

17 hours ago, Old Red said:

That’s true, but it’s also true Priester has pitched more innings than  anyone else on the Red Sox outside of Cro Man. I know the BP needs work, but not the amount they are getting. By your analogy the Red Sox are under 500 with Cro Man, so why bother?

And we don't know if Priester would pitch the same amount of innings under Cora who has a quick hook. Priester who struggles against LHB (796 OPS, 5.03 ERA, 1.60 WHIP) may also be treated differently in this org. We don't know what his usage would be here. Milwaukee has found a use for him. Good for them. I'm still happy with the trade. His 0.1 fWAR is also tied with Gio and Bello.

[Bellhorn04]

19 hours ago, notin said:

I had some faith in Priester at the time.  I didn’t question the entire practice of trading SP simply because the Sox dealt a pitcher with a 5.16 ERA as a starter for a prospect with some promise.

Not to mention Priester isnt even starting in Milwaukee, plus Pitt -a team that cannot afford to retain good SP - did deal him for Nick Yorke long before arbitration became an issue.  And Theres the whole question about the Sox coaching staff.  If they really are the source of problems, wouldn’t Priester suffer from those as well?  And of course the defense behind him.

Priester seems pretty Fungibles to me right now.  I can wait and see how Yophery does before I call this deal into question…

Yophery is 19.  I'm pushing 70.  I'm getting too old for waiting on Yopherys. 🙂 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

3 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Yophery is 19.  I'm pushing 70.  I'm getting too old for waiting on Yopherys. 🙂 

I think there were Yopherys on my Yes poster. Or was it Tull?